• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

From whence do the ethical values of atheists derive?

watsup

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 17, 2020
Messages
25,191
Reaction score
8,254
Location
Springfield MO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
I was perhaps a bit sloppy in the title of my previous thread, so it got off-track from what I was expecting. As such, I am trying to start over and clarify here.
“Believers” claim that moral authority comes from God and that since atheists “don’t believe in God”, that somehow allows them to simply do whatever they want without respect to ethics.
So my query then becomes from whence do the ethical values of atheists derive if not from God.

I know the answer, of course. This thread is more to provide an education for the theists in this forum, although atheists, like Democrats, have a notoriously rebellious streak in many case and so there may indeed be some debate about the source of ethics.
 

Aunt Antifa

Vaccinated-American
Banned
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Messages
27,199
Reaction score
14,221
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
I was perhaps a bit sloppy in the title of my previous thread, so it got off-track from what I was expecting. As such, I am trying to start over and clarify here.
“Believers” claim that moral authority comes from God and that since atheists “don’t believe in God”, that somehow allows them to simply do whatever they want without respect to ethics.
So my query then becomes from whence do the ethical values of atheists derive if not from God.

I know the answer, of course. This thread is more to provide an education for the theists in this forum, although atheists, like Democrats, have a notoriously rebellious streak in many case and so there may indeed be some debate about the source of ethics.

I have yet to meet a single atheist that believes they can do whatever they want. Where are you getting this from?
 

Elora

The best is yet to come...
DP Veteran
Joined
May 28, 2017
Messages
44,553
Reaction score
11,285
Location
Down South
Gender
Female
I have yet to meet a single atheist that believes they can do whatever they want. Where are you getting this from?

So, what stops you from doing so? A conscience, perhaps?
 

Paradoxical

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 25, 2019
Messages
52,283
Reaction score
10,102
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I was perhaps a bit sloppy in the title of my previous thread, so it got off-track from what I was expecting. As such, I am trying to start over and clarify here.
“Believers” claim that moral authority comes from God and that since atheists “don’t believe in God”, that somehow allows them to simply do whatever they want without respect to ethics.
So my query then becomes from whence do the ethical values of atheists derive if not from God.

I know the answer, of course. This thread is more to provide an education for the theists in this forum, although atheists, like Democrats, have a notoriously rebellious streak in many case and so there may indeed be some debate about the source of ethics.
Morals are what makes society work. It is as simple as that. They are as a result of evolution. Humans do what they do out of necessity for their own comfort. Naturally there are the psychos who don’t and that’s why we have jails. There is no need to “insert God here”.
 

Elora

The best is yet to come...
DP Veteran
Joined
May 28, 2017
Messages
44,553
Reaction score
11,285
Location
Down South
Gender
Female
A conscience is what stops me from cheating on my wife. It is anecdotal to running a functional society.

True...there are those who seem to be born with no conscience...most have a repulsion for mistreating/hurting others, though...
 

Valery

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 26, 2020
Messages
2,265
Reaction score
150
So you're born with this goodness in you and if you're raised in a decent environment, you're good, but then you grow and start thinking and exercising your free will with more understanding of things and if no one teaches you religious values you easily slip the slippery slope to the sins your society calls you to
 

Aunt Antifa

Vaccinated-American
Banned
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Messages
27,199
Reaction score
14,221
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
True...there are those who seem to be born with no conscience...most have a repulsion for mistreating/hurting others, though...

You just described human beings.
 

danielpalos

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 14, 2012
Messages
29,135
Reaction score
1,519
Location
US, California - federalist
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
I was perhaps a bit sloppy in the title of my previous thread, so it got off-track from what I was expecting. As such, I am trying to start over and clarify here.
“Believers” claim that moral authority comes from God and that since atheists “don’t believe in God”, that somehow allows them to simply do whatever they want without respect to ethics.
So my query then becomes from whence do the ethical values of atheists derive if not from God.

I know the answer, of course. This thread is more to provide an education for the theists in this forum, although atheists, like Democrats, have a notoriously rebellious streak in many case and so there may indeed be some debate about the source of ethics.

The secular and temporal bible for the militia of the United States.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

What is not covered by our Ten simple Amendments?
 

watsup

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 17, 2020
Messages
25,191
Reaction score
8,254
Location
Springfield MO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
K
So you're born with this goodness in you and if you're raised in a decent environment, you're good, but then you grow and start thinking and exercising your free will with more understanding of things and if no one teaches you religious values you easily slip the slippery slope to the sins your society calls you to



Take out the term "religious" and you're probably onto something.
 

Lutherf

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 16, 2012
Messages
45,998
Reaction score
52,040
Location
Tucson, AZ
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I was perhaps a bit sloppy in the title of my previous thread, so it got off-track from what I was expecting. As such, I am trying to start over and clarify here.
“Believers” claim that moral authority comes from God and that since atheists “don’t believe in God”, that somehow allows them to simply do whatever they want without respect to ethics.
So my query then becomes from whence do the ethical values of atheists derive if not from God.

I know the answer, of course. This thread is more to provide an education for the theists in this forum, although atheists, like Democrats, have a notoriously rebellious streak in many case and so there may indeed be some debate about the source of ethics.

Atheists develop their ethics from others that believe as they do. It's pretty simple, really. If you have a mess of people that agree that this, that or the other is "ethical" then it is deemed to be ethical. For the most part it's a function of taking the ethical perspective from negative consequentialism and applying it to everyone that isn't you. Think of it like this, "100 people did this one thing and 75 of them had a specific result. That result isn't what we wanted so that one thing is unethical".
 

Dragonfly

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
27,293
Reaction score
15,492
Location
East Coast - USA
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Centrist
So you're born with this goodness in you and if you're raised in a decent environment, you're good, but then you grow and start thinking and exercising your free will with more understanding of things and if no one teaches you religious values you easily slip the slippery slope to the sins your society calls you to

You're not "born with goodness". :roll:

Goodness is learned. It's taught. It's part of the culture/environment you grow up in. (Hopefully)


"Religious values" have nothing to do with any of this.

Stoning a person to death is a "religious value" to some.
FGM is a "religious value" to some.
Killing gay men is a "religious value" to some.
 

Valery

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 26, 2020
Messages
2,265
Reaction score
150
K



Take out the term "religious" and you're probably onto something.

So you, too, consider homosexual behaviour, revealing clothing in public, fornication, pornography, usury, gossiping, music and alcohol sinful?
 

watsup

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 17, 2020
Messages
25,191
Reaction score
8,254
Location
Springfield MO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
So you, too, consider homosexual behaviour, revealing clothing in public, fornication, pornography, usury, gossiping, music and alcohol sinful?


You did not use any of those terms in your original post. In fact, you have turned my statement on its head since many of the activities that you list refer to RELIGIOUS viewpoints which atheists may or may not agree with. I said to remove the term religious, but you are using it as a standard instead.
 

Valery

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 26, 2020
Messages
2,265
Reaction score
150
You're not "born with goodness". :roll:

Goodness is learned. It's taught. It's part of the culture/environment you grow up in. (Hopefully)


"Religious values" have nothing to do with any of this.

Stoning a person to death is a "religious value" to some.
FGM is a "religious value" to some.
Killing gay men is a "religious value" to some.
Ingenious experiments carried out at Yale University in the US used these measures to look at babies' minds. Their results suggest that even the youngest humans have a sense of right and wrong, and, furthermore, an instinct to prefer good over evil.
Are we naturally good or bad? - BBC Future

Those are not values.
 

Valery

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 26, 2020
Messages
2,265
Reaction score
150
You did not use any of those terms in your original post. In fact, you have turned my statement on its head since many of the activities that you list refer to RELIGIOUS viewpoints which atheists may or may not agree with. I said to remove the term religious, but you are using it as a standard instead.

What I listed are sins. I said a person would "slip the slippery slope to the sins the society calls you to". You said it's the same for an atheist, but what sins are you referring to?
 

RAMOSS

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
62,963
Reaction score
27,357
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
True...there are those who seem to be born with no conscience...most have a repulsion for mistreating/hurting others, though...

Sometimes, not having a conscience is a matter of upbringing. If someone is given lots of material goods, but is deprived emotionally, they tend to turn into sociopaths.
 

Elora

The best is yet to come...
DP Veteran
Joined
May 28, 2017
Messages
44,553
Reaction score
11,285
Location
Down South
Gender
Female
Sometimes, not having a conscience is a matter of upbringing. If someone is given lots of material goods, but is deprived emotionally, they tend to turn into sociopaths.

And yet others do seem to be born that way, regardless of how good their upbringing had been...
 

watsup

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 17, 2020
Messages
25,191
Reaction score
8,254
Location
Springfield MO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Sometimes, not having a conscience is a matter of upbringing. If someone is given lots of material goods, but is deprived emotionally, they tend to turn into sociopaths.


Trump.
 

RAMOSS

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
62,963
Reaction score
27,357
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
And yet others do seem to be born that way, regardless of how good their upbringing had been...

Some, but many have a very strong environmental factor.
 

Elora

The best is yet to come...
DP Veteran
Joined
May 28, 2017
Messages
44,553
Reaction score
11,285
Location
Down South
Gender
Female
Some, but many have a very strong environmental factor.

I agree with that...I watch a whole lotta ID channel...the human psyche and what makes it tick is intriguing to me...
 
Top Bottom