Freedom brother and sister charged with incest

[Unbeknownst]

Like two men married adopting a baby is something straight from Biden country.

Incest =/= homosexuality... do I really need to explain this?

 

[Maccabee]

Like two men married adopting a baby is something straight from Biden country.

As it should be, but at least in this case, the child isn't at high risk of genetic mutations.

 

[danielpalos]

Freedom brother and sister charged with incest

Siblings are charged with incest after their sexual relationship came to light.

www.timesonline.com

FREEDOM — A brother and sister have been charged after their sexual relationship came to light.

According to a criminal complaint, the 30-year-old woman and 37-year-old man, both of Freedom, are each charged with incest after the woman told officers about their intimate relationship, which resulted in a child. They are not being named by The Times due to the nature of the crime.
=========================================
From wherever Beaver County is, here is a case of good old down home incest. The man just became overly fond of his sister.

Religious laws should be limited to the Religious.

 

[maquiscat]

Religious laws should be limited to the Religious.

Incest concerns are not limited to religious based object. Even atheists have incest objections, usually based up the Westermarck Effect. There is also the legitimate concern of birth defects, although the risk of first generation inbreeding is exaggerated.

 

[danielpalos]

Incest concerns are not limited to religious based object. Even atheists have incest objections, usually based up the Westermarck Effect. There is also the legitimate concern of birth defects, although the risk of first generation inbreeding is exaggerated.

Even in modern contraceptive times?

The subjective value of morals is simply that.

 

[maquiscat]

Even in modern contraceptive times?

The subjective value of morals is simply that.

Yes even in modern times. But we know what the basis of the revulsion is. The Westermarck Effect is a normal developmental effect that is actually unrelated to blood and has to do with growing up with a person. It has been the cause of some arranged marriages problems in India and other countries that still practice such, when the child bride comes to live with the child groom's family until the children are of age to marry. In such cases, often the now grown children have the same revulsion towards each other sexually, as we commonly associate with siblings. This revulsion is present regardless of any religious belief or lack thereof. It's not a revulsion based on morals, but normal human development.

As to contraception, all contraception has a failure rate. Only removal of the testicles or overies/uterus provides a 100% success rate (assuming sex is happening). Even without the Westermarck Effect, there is a legitimate concern for birth defect possiblity. And we can see the results of multi generational inbreeding in history. However, the actual odds on the first generation is not as bad as many try to make it out to be, and there is no pressure to keep breeding with bloodline like there used to be with the nobility. So the risk of birth defects isn't much more than older women getting pregnant.

 

[guillermojf]

Assuming there is no genetic malformity, what is the objective harm - social stigma? Are siblings guaranteed to be inherently unfit parents, to such a significant degree that it stands out in comparison to when Mom and Dad aren't swimming in the same bloodline?

Don't get me wrong, subjectively I have a visceral reaction to these stories, and admittedly I even look askance at pairings of first cousins. But why? The only reason I can think of is I've been socially conditioned to react negatively.

But taking the squick factor out of it, let's assume the pairing is between consenting adults and there is no abuse. What is the objection that justifies criminalizing the relationship? Why can't we all just mind our own business, provided it doesn't hurt or otherwise infringe on others?

I must be getting more libertarian/anarchist leanings in my advancing age.

Incest really sullies family. For example, a daughter is suppose to respect her father, but

 

[Lycanthrope]

Incest really sullies family. For example, a daughter is suppose to respect her father, but

There is indeed a power imbalance between parent and child that makes this especially dangerous/taboo.

What about siblings that are close in age?

 

[notquiteright]

All they have to do is the man say he is gay and the woman say she is a lesbian.Liberals will adore them.

All they have to do is claim tRump is President and the MAGA crowd will call them political prisoners. Gaetz, Gohmert, Greene will demand their immediate release and tRumpers will adore them...

 

[guillermojf]

There is indeed a power imbalance between parent and child that makes this especially dangerous/taboo.

What about siblings that are close in age?

sorry, i accidentally clicked submit before finishing my post.

Incest really sullies family. For example, a daughter is suppose to respect her father. But after marriage, there is a strong bond between the daughter and her husband. It's nearly possessive: the daughter is her husband's property instead of her father's. She spends more time with her husband and their child than with her father, usually or societally expected.

Imagine being upset that your daughter was taken by a man. You can no longer enjoy as much time as you want with your daughter. Again, society somewhat placates this. But imagine if that man was your own son. You raised a man who would take your daughter away from you. Even if he is the best man in the world, you might be envious that she is spending more time with him. Jealousy can become a cause for crime, in some situations.

There are also other issues with incest, like a possible increase in birth defects.

In some societies, romantic relationships are less supported or stable than family relationships. A man could've had multiple girlfriends but he only has one mother. A man could even abuse or beat hia girlfriend or wife. When romantic relationships fail, the man or woman usually fall back to family relationships. Foe example, a woman (getting harmed by her husband) might try to live with her father or brother instead. But this is impossible or difficult if her husband is her brother. Maybe even her father might refuse to defend her and upport the abusive brother/husband. For many people, family is a great defense and incest damages that defense.

 

[guillermojf]

Also, there may be some sayings about respecting family. A brother usually knows his sister a lot or ar least her family. If he gets upset with her, he can abuse that knowledge to cause damage. For instance, he could connect with other family members who might not like her. Or he may know and visit where she runs away to, after a fight. He may even harm a family member that means more to her than to him. His family membership gives him a lot of access and information that a nonincest husband has. For example, my sister's husband and I barely know each other, and my sister somewhat controls that relationship, so that relationship can't be used against her much.

 

[maquiscat]

sorry, i accidentally clicked submit before finishing my post.

Happens to the best of us.

Incest really sullies family. For example, a daughter is suppose to respect her father. But after marriage, there is a strong bond between the daughter and her husband. It's nearly possessive: the daughter is her husband's property instead of her father's. She spends more time with her husband and their child than with her father, usually or societally expected.

Imagine being upset that your daughter was taken by a man. You can no longer enjoy as much time as you want with your daughter. Again, society somewhat placates this. But imagine if that man was your own son. You raised a man who would take your daughter away from you. Even if he is the best man in the world, you might be envious that she is spending more time with him. Jealousy can become a cause for crime, in some situations.

There is a lot of assumption and maybe even a bit of projection in this. And not just in whether or not something is there, but the meaning of it. The concept of being possessive or a child or spouse is really scary when you think about it. That last line especially. That is very disturbing regardless of whether or not the man in question is her sibling. It implies that a father will go after her husband due to jealousy no matter who he is. With that kind of a person, I don't think any potential incest is what you have to worry about.

There are also other issues with incest, like a possible increase in birth defects.

Only an issue with opposite sex incest, which admittedly would be the most common. But also first generation inbreeding doesn't actually hold all that much in the way of risk, to the point that breeders will often use it to reinforce certain traits within their breeds. It is repeated multi-generational inbreeding that produces the majority of birth defects.

In some societies, romantic relationships are less supported or stable than family relationships. A man could've had multiple girlfriends but he only has one mother. A man could even abuse or beat hia girlfriend or wife. When romantic relationships fail, the man or woman usually fall back to family relationships. Foe example, a woman (getting harmed by her husband) might try to live with her father or brother instead. But this is impossible or difficult if her husband is her brother. Maybe even her father might refuse to defend her and upport the abusive brother/husband. For many people, family is a great defense and incest damages that defense.

Again a lot of presumptions here. If the family is going to be supportive of the abusing individual, then that family was likely already abusive of the abused individual as well. Keep in mind that most cases of incest end up being unknown as such in the beginning. The Westermarck Effect more often than not will prevent such relationships between family members that grow up together.

 

[guillermojf]

The idea of possessing a woman is still very strong in many societies today. It may be historical where women were traded or exchanged for goods or resources in the bible. Many modern songs express the idea: "you are mine," "I am yours," and etc. I agree that it's scary, which might be why I've never had a girlfriend.

The father being hesitant of the husband can also be observed in a lot of modern movies. The father doesn't like the fiance or wants to fight him. Or he does not trust the fiance. There may be jealousy as well, and the amount of jealousy might vary. Maybe it won't always result in crime or sin, but it would definitely affect the relationship between the father and son.

 

[guillermojf]

clicked post too early again. i hate my phone.

Maybe it won't always result in crime or sin, but it would definitely affect the relationship between the father and son. And the effect would likely magnify if they live under the same roof. I would not be surprised if the incest couple would live with family because their amount of resources may be drawn from only one family (instead of two families in a nonincest marriage.)

If the family is going to be supportive of the abusing individual, then that family was likely already abusive of the abused individual as well.

Not necessarily. They could just prefer the abuser rather than the abused. Or the parents could be negligent.

I dont know much about the birth defects, but i'm pretty sure it's an issue or at least a sign that incest isn't good. I'd take birth defects pretty seriously, as I'd only have sex for the sake of producing offspring. Outside of that, sex is just a whole lot of STIs and broken condoms. It's why I'm still a celibate virgin.

 

[guillermojf]

But generally, incest is bad because it magnifies a lot of issues of romantic relationships and lessens the integrity of family.

If anyone thinks incest is good, then please stop watching porn.

Also, incest can be quite identifiable, even at a young age. For instance, a girl is asked by a neighbor's child "Who's your boyfriend?" to which the girl replies, "My brother." Then the neighbor's child says "That's weird." Saying that an incest couple can not identify their own incest is like saying that a gay couple can not identify if they are gay. In fact, incest is a sexual relationship that many societies openly outlaw and ridicule, so it may be even quicker for an incestuous couple to realize that they are comitting incest than for a gay couple to realize that they are gay. The only few ways, to keep the incest couple "dumb," would be to keep them away from certain societies, which can be very difficult to do, especially with the internet. It's more likely that an incest couple will feign ignorance, to avoid being convicted of incest.

Sorry if my tone is a bit frustrated here, but it's disturbing to think that some people would defend incest and then reference history rather than current societies, observations, laws, and human behavior. Some people in this thread would not have the patience to teach that incest is bad and to quit porn. But I suppose this is a debate forum, after all. And I've been misguided before, especially through porn, so I empathize with the confusion.

 

[Deuce]

All they have to do is the man say he is gay and the woman say she is a lesbian.Liberals will adore them.

You pretend to believe the dumbest shit

 

[bearpoker]

All they have to do is the man say he is gay and the woman say she is a lesbian.Liberals will adore them.

It would be an improvement if they were screwing same sex siblings instead of each other. No possibility for kids.

 

[bearpoker]

Lincoln's assassination was a bigger shock to this country than 9/11. When they hung Mary Sarrat her minister held an umbrella to shield the poor woman from the rays of the D.C. sun. As I said, deferrence to a degree.

When I worked in sales it was common knowledge that a female sales person could get a meeting with the right person in a big company more easily than a man could. When it came to closing any deal it was usually her boss etc who handled that part.

Men are curious about women in business especially. For one thing, they smell better than guys & they are more interesting to look at. Men always fall for the attractive head & outstanding pectorals. But they can only get as far as their brains can take them.

I don't think Mary got off lightly since she was hung. Did she even have anything do do with the assassination? She was just the landlady.

 

[bearpoker]

But generally, incest is bad because it magnifies a lot of issues of romantic relationships and lessens the integrity of family.

If anyone thinks incest is good, then please stop watching porn.

Also, incest can be quite identifiable, even at a young age. For instance, a girl is asked by a neighbor's child "Who's your boyfriend?" to which the girl replies, "My brother." Then the neighbor's child says "That's weird." Saying that an incest couple can not identify their own incest is like saying that a gay couple can not identify if they are gay. In fact, incest is a sexual relationship that many societies openly outlaw and ridicule, so it may be even quicker for an incestuous couple to realize that they are comitting incest than for a gay couple to realize that they are gay. The only few ways, to keep the incest couple "dumb," would be to keep them away from certain societies, which can be very difficult to do, especially with the internet. It's more likely that an incest couple will feign ignorance, to avoid being convicted of incest.

Sorry if my tone is a bit frustrated here, but it's disturbing to think that some people would defend incest and then reference history rather than current societies, observations, laws, and human behavior. Some people in this thread would not have the patience to teach that incest is bad and to quit porn. But I suppose this is a debate forum, after all. And I've been misguided before, especially through porn, so I empathize with the confusion.

What does watching porn have to do with thinking incest is good? I don't think anyone here is pro-incest.

 

[bearpoker]

Incest =/= homosexuality... do I really need to explain this?

Gulfman likes to break in with one liners that he hopes will annoy people.

 

[Court Jester]

Freedom brother and sister charged with incest

Siblings are charged with incest after their sexual relationship came to light.

www.timesonline.com

FREEDOM — A brother and sister have been charged after their sexual relationship came to light.

According to a criminal complaint, the 30-year-old woman and 37-year-old man, both of Freedom, are each charged with incest after the woman told officers about their intimate relationship, which resulted in a child. They are not being named by The Times due to the nature of the crime.
=========================================
From wherever Beaver County is, here is a case of good old down home incest. The man just became overly fond of his sister.

You call yourself a "progressive" so why do you have a problem with two adults who make their own decisions?

I find it to be pretty sick too, but not any sicker than homosexuals making their freewill adult choices.

I just find it curious why you would see one unnatural thing as worse than another unnatural thing?