France- 1/3 of Muslims Reject French Law in Favor of Sharia Law (1 Viewer)

[coldjoint]

You asked a question and I answered it, If you are a Christian then you follow what He taught us, FYI, the Old and the New Testament are both in the Bible, you know that right?

Neither are really relevant to the topic.

 

[Casper]

Neither are really relevant to the topic.

Actually it is very relevant if one wants to see the entire picture and not just what they want to see.

 

[truthatallcost]

That has to be the dumbest thing you have said, among many, you really have no idea what it means to Believe. May you learn what it mans one day.

Fine, I'll Believe you when you can support your own claims, instead of trying to divert attention to other matters.

 

[coldjoint]

Actually it is very relevant if one wants to see the entire picture and not just what they want to see.

The picture you want to see ended many years ago. To suggest Islam has some sort of right to act the way they do is somehow Christianities fault is ridiculous. Are you a fan of reparations too?

Look at the doctrine of Islam and try to defend that without using the past.

 

[truthatallcost]

Horse****. It comes down to interpretation and here Sharia Law is no different than the Bible.



So if you have 3 million hardcore Christians who believe that homosexuals should be killed, then you have 3 million potential murderes or terrorists?



LOL they are far more dangerous than most. Ignorance on this level lead to the dark ages and Christian religious wars that cost 10s of % of populations lives.

When will you guys get it through your thick skulls that no one is killing in Jesus' name in 2016?!
I find it so very odd that 'progressives' are continually stuck in the 11th century, whenever the topic of radical Islam is mentioned.

Look at the numerous slaughterings done weekly and sometimes daily in the world, in the name of Muhammad. Africa, the Mideast, and parts of Asia are awash in blood continuously. I'm trying to warn that the bloodshed is reaching Europe. And you're constantly putting up this absurd defense that involves Christianity.

When Europe experiences a new dark age of Islamic repression, I won't blame Islamic conquerors as much as I'll blame supposed enlightened progressives who hurled insults at Christians as Muslims stormed Europe.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Sharia Law condones what we in the West regard as terrorism. If you have 3 million people who agree that criticizing Islam is punishable by death, then you've got 3 million potential terrorists or terrorist supporters.

Horse****. It comes down to interpretation and here Sharia Law is no different than the Bible.



So if you have 3 million hardcore Christians who believe that homosexuals should be killed, then you have 3 million potential murderes or terrorists?



LOL they are far more dangerous than most. Ignorance on this level lead to the dark ages and Christian religious wars that cost 10s of % of populations lives.

I agree with the similies, and both are wrong to use the religion to kill.

When will you guys get it through your thick skulls that no one is killing in Jesus' name in 2016?!
I find it so very odd that 'progressives' are continually stuck in the 11th century, whenever the topic of radical Islam is mentioned.

Look at the numerous slaughterings done weekly and sometimes daily in the world, in the name of Muhammad. Africa, the Mideast, and parts of Asia are awash in blood continuously. I'm trying to warn that the bloodshed is reaching Europe. And you're constantly putting up this absurd defense that involves Christianity.

When Europe experiences a new dark age of Islamic repression, I won't blame Islamic conquerors as much as I'll blame supposed enlightened progressives who hurled insults at Christians as Muslims stormed Europe.

This seems to be the difference. Many Middle East leaders are still stick in the past. Christians have left the mentality of the crusades behind, many Muslims have not. There are those in the Middle East using Sharia law to empower them. There are those of all religions that use their good book for selfish reasons.

If I recall correctly, the God of the Bible tells man to obey the laws. Leviticus wasn't the law of God, but the law of man. God's law is the 10 commandments. Islam obeys the same God, and I believe those killing in his name aren't following the scriptures properly as well.

 

[joG]

And Asians in France are asking for more policemen, and integrate themselves as soon as the second generation.

Once again, all western countries with enough Muslims have problems with Islam. The Nordic countries, role model of integration, also see the failures of their attempts to assimilate Muslims. So do Italy, the UK, etc. You cannot blame this on colonial wars.

Actually, the Persians integrated in the US quite well. I suspect the causes are more complicated than just Muslim cannot do. In the States it is interesting to see a similar thing in the Black population, where the indigenously born do much less well, than African Americans of the first or second generation. This most probably is due to socialization than anything else.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Actually, the Persians integrated in the US quite well. I suspect the causes are more complicated than just Muslim cannot do. In the States it is interesting to see a similar thing in the Black population, where the indigenously born do much less well, than African Americans of the first or second generation. This most probably is due to socialization than anything else.

The difference between coming to a world by choice, and the others being taught the white man is to blame for everything.

 

[PeteEU]

When will you guys get it through your thick skulls that no one is killing in Jesus' name in 2016?!

Yes there are. Lords Resistance Army in Uganda. Christians in Nigeria burn children as witches.

I find it so very odd that 'progressives' are continually stuck in the 11th century, whenever the topic of radical Islam is mentioned.

"Progressives" are not stuck in the 11th century.. they are being realistic. You blame the whole religion and anyone in that religion.. that is just wrong. Do I blame all of Norway and Christianity for Brevik? No.

Look at the numerous slaughterings done weekly and sometimes daily in the world, in the name of Muhammad. Africa, the Mideast, and parts of Asia are awash in blood continuously. I'm trying to warn that the bloodshed is reaching Europe. And you're constantly putting up this absurd defense that involves Christianity.

Those are war zones for **** sake. That is political violence and for the most part Muslim against Muslim

 

[Lafayette]

JUST THE FACTS

The number of Muslims in France has been estimated by two different sources, first Pew Research (which I esteem greatly) and also JP Gourévitch, who is considered highly reputable given his investigative work on populations, but also supposedly "Rightist". It is not evident to me that Gourévitch is all that much of a Rightist given his very wide range of scientific interest.

Nonetheless, Pew Research estimates the total number to be 11 million or 7% of the population, which is a considerable amount. But, given the fact that the Mahgreb (Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco) were once French colonies, and when they were "freed" a great many were allowed into France. So, there is a bonafide reason for them being in France. (I am no different myself, since I am the son of a "European Migrant".)

If your French is up to reading it, Gourévitch's Wikipedia mention is found here. In that document, he is said to estimate the population to be 8 million. If I take a mid-point of 7.5 million Muslims living in France their percentage is around 11.6%.

It is nowhere near 30%!

At the Bataclan Nightclub in Paris, when attacked by Islamists, 130 deaths occurred. Of those dead, were 4 Muslims:
Halima Ben Khalifa Saadi,
Hodda Ben Khalifa Saadi
Asta Diakite
Mohamed Amine Ibnolmobarak

Once again, the Rabidly Right on this forum, without any thought or sufficient investigation of the foundational facts of the matter, is insinuating that they are a "horde" about to take over the country.

I leave that preposterous notion to your own judgement ... but, here is mine: The younger Muslims having been schooled in France are "young French" and you would not be able to disassociate them from any other French - whether Christian, Jew or Hindu or Atheist.

They all want to be left-alone and not categorized because of their religion - since, in France, even a classification of religions (for whatever purposes) is illegal. Thus there is no official documentation of religious populations by the French state, this legal notion having been derived from the treatment of the Jewish population in France by the Nazis.

I, for one, could not agree more with the purposes of that law - there should be No Religious Categorization for political purposes ...


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[joG]

The difference between coming to a world by choice, and the others being taught the white man is to blame for everything.

Which is probably the story behind the third generation Muslims becoming terrorists.

 

[Auvergnat]

Actually, the Persians integrated in the US quite well. I suspect the causes are more complicated than just Muslim cannot do.

The USA have far too few Muslims (1%-2%), and their arrival is too recent. Remember that our problems started decades after Muslims came in our country.

Besides the Iranian case is even more peculiar because those were mostly people opposed to the cultural revolution.

In the States it is interesting to see a similar thing in the Black population, where the indigenously born do much less well, than African Americans of the first or second generation. This most probably is due to socialization than anything else.

I fail to see the relationship between Afro-Americans and Muslims, or the relationship between assimilation and integration, between the rise of religious radicalism, ethnic fragmentation, retrograde cultural influences on one hand, and professional success on the other hand.

Let me insist: European Muslims are NOT Afro-Americans, do not mistake one story for the other.

 

[Auvergnat]

It is nowhere near 30%!

No one said there are 30% of Muslims on the national level. Turthatallcost mentioned 15%, I mentioned 7%.

However, among the high-schoolers in Paris' region, there are 30%.

Rather than wasting time spouting "rabid", "Nazi", "darkest hours" and other ready-made ideas, you should pay more attention to what others are writing.

I, for one, could not agree more with the purposes of that law - there should be No Religious Categorization for political purposes ...

And I disagree: we have the right to know the truth!

Besides politics should not be conducted by blind leaders. We must measure reality to take adequate decisions. Anyway, if there is no problem with reality, then measuring it should decrease Islamophobia, so what are you afraid of?

Finally I am sick of the leftist authoritarianism. I want to reconquer the freedom to know the truth and to expose my political ideas in my own country without having to face jail. No more political repression!

 

[Lafayette]

Rather than wasting time spouting "rabid", "Nazi", "darkest hours" and other ready-made ideas, you should pay more attention to what others are writing.

Look, you supposedly live in France, and you did not even know that any official compilation of population by race is illegal! But, of course, informally it is acceptable. Well, it isn't!

Why's this? Because of the reason I gave. It was by stirring up the population against the Jews, that the Nazis were able to annihilate them - almost with the connivance of the locals - who thought it a "good idea" to denounce a Jewish-family to the Gestapo. And in France, there were many.

Let us not go down that road - it leads to hell ... !
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[Auvergnat]

Look, you supposedly live in France, and you did not even know that any official compilation of population by race is illegal!

I never claimed it is legal, I stated it should be legal. Denying us the right to know the truth is yet another element of the political repression of the left.

And I am of course very well aware of the Nazism scarecrow, but I am not going to let you destroy my country and submit to Islam because you are afraid that what happened 70 years ago could happen again. Especially when the totalitarianism we are facing now is not Nazism but Islam. Especially when your policies are the ones creating those problems by weakening France, fragmenting it, and creating a fertile landscape for hatred and political radicalism.

The far-right is rolling over the political parties precisely because of your choice to dissolve France and turn it into a multiethnic repressive district of the empire, where politics are prohibited. You tried to silence us with the judiciary force, you tried to ostracize and prohibit our opinions, you tried to impose us a Franco-Islam country, and destroy our countries, sovereignties and cultures. Of course the backlash will be violent, you reap what you sow. Be happy: French people are still indecisive, they apparently want to elect Juppé in order to avoid taking decisions for five more years. This would be the last time.

 

[PoS]

I never claimed it is legal, I stated it should be legal. Denying us the right to know the truth is yet another element of the political repression of the left.

And I am of course very well aware of the Nazism scarecrow, but I am not going to let you destroy my country and submit to Islam because you are afraid that what happened 70 years ago could happen again.

Especially when the totalitarianism we are facing now is not Nazism but Islam. Especially when your policies are the ones creating those problems by weakening France, fragmenting it, and creating a fertile landscape for hatred and political radicalism. The far-right is rolling over the political parties precisely because of your choice to dissolve France and turn it into a multiethnic repressive district of the empire, where politics are prohibited.

Replace the word Islam with Jew and thats exactly what people in Germany were saying back in the 1930's. Funny how Europe never learns...

 

[Auvergnat]

Replace the word Islam with Jew and thats exactly what people in Germany were saying back in the 1930's.

Not at all, please spare us you pre-made cheap ideas you probably heard in the mouth of some Hollywood star, or learned in a Facebook article, between an infomercial for Nike and the freshest gossips.

 

[joG]

The USA have far too few Muslims (1%-2%), and their arrival is too recent. Remember that our problems started decades after Muslims came in our country.

Besides the Iranian case is even more peculiar because those were mostly people opposed to the cultural revolution.


I fail to see the relationship between Afro-Americans and Muslims, or the relationship between assimilation and integration, between the rise of religious radicalism, ethnic fragmentation, retrograde cultural influences on one hand, and professional success on the other hand.

Let me insist: European Muslims are NOT Afro-Americans, do not mistake one story for the other.

It is quite true that the US has relatively few Muslims compared with the Countries with colonial pasts or recent mass migration like the Turkish population in Germany.

The thing that made me think of the African Americans in this context was the fact that they compare with Muslims in the fact that the new arrivals do better than the ones brought up in the country. This seems to be at least partially true of the Muslim populations. But maybe you have statistics I haven't seen.

 

[Lafayette]

The far-right is rolling over the political parties precisely because of your choice to dissolve France and turn it into a multiethnic repressive district of the empire, where politics are prohibited. You tried to silence us with the judiciary force, you tried to ostracize and prohibit our opinions, you tried to impose us a Franco-Islam country, and destroy our countries, sovereignties and cultures. Of course the backlash will be violent, you reap what you sow. Be happy: French people are still indecisive, they apparently want to elect Juppé in order to avoid taking decisions for five more years. This would be the last time.

Oh, come off it.

France has been the crossroads of Europe for centuries. All sorts of peoples have come and gone.

That is NOT the major problem in France. France's key stumbling block is its attitude toward "work". It has a Legal Code defining all aspects of work-relationships that has more words in it than bible. The very notion "to codify work" is aberrant - down to the silly notion that nobody should be in an office on a Saturday afternoon. (So guards have the authority to not let them in.)

I could go on about the silliness of the 35-hour work week voted in by a Socialist Government in 2000 by lowering the numbers of hours worked in a week from 39.5 to 35, at the same pay-rate. The French are good workers, but unlike the Americans who think it is a "way of life".

So, they think it must be highly regulated for it to be fair. Fine, but all the labor-intensive industries up and left for Europe's Near East where there were talented people at half the hourly rate. Very smart of the French Socialists - since most of those workers were ex-Communist-Party members!

France has not known an unemployment rate less than 7% since the 1990s - which is more than a quarter of a century ago. And every five years (of a presidential term) the same tired faces show up to "lead the nation". And most haven't the foggiest notion of where to take it - but that's not a consideration since they are all ENArques.

Meaning this: It's as if the US were run perpetually by graduates of Harvard's JFK School of Government. (Heaven Help America!)

I could go on, but it's disheartening. France is a great country to live in - but first make your career elsewhere ...
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[Lafayette]

Replace the word Islam with Jew and thats exactly what people in Germany were saying back in the 1930's. Funny how Europe never learns...

Europe HAS learned!

Which is the point I have been trying to make. Muslims have been treated better here generally than blacks in the US.
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[coldjoint]

Europe HAS learned!

Which is the point I have been trying to make. Muslims have been treated better here generally than blacks in the US.
_______________________

Islam has intimidated Europe and Muslims are being treated accordingly.

 

[zyzygy]

Islam has intimidated Europe and Muslims are being treated accordingly.

You know nothing about Europe.

 

[coldjoint]

You know nothing about Europe.

I know about Islam. And your politicians.

 

[Auvergnat]

The thing that made me think of the African Americans in this context was the fact that they compare with Muslims in the fact that the new arrivals do better than the ones brought up in the country. This seems to be at least partially true of the Muslim populations. But maybe you have statistics I haven't seen.

It may be possible but I actually saw two divergent studies on this question, both with methodological problems. The prohibition of ethnic statistics render those studies difficult.

That is NOT the major problem in France.

On the opposite our identity crisis is our biggest problem, with severe economic impacts. The loss of trust and optimism have immense consequences for an economy, and they are in large parts caused by societal factors such as the cost of multiethnicity and the dismantlement of national democracies in favor of an international bureaucracy.

Besides this new international order has important responsibilities in our economic situation. Being prohibited to tackle our trade deficit by any other way than long-term changes actually causes large losses by the time those changes produce effects. And in no country deep reforms can be conducted quickly, even though France has a worse track record on this matter.

France's key stumbling block is its attitude toward "work". It has a Legal Code defining all aspects of work-relationships that has more words in it than bible. The very notion "to codify work" is aberrant - down to the silly notion that nobody should be in an office on a Saturday afternoon. (So guards have the authority to not let them in.)

I vigorously hate our labor code but you are NOT prohibited to come on Saturday because of the law. It was likely for security questions: it would be easy for a lone employee to copy sensitive files or steal expensive hardware for example. Only work on Sunday is outlawed in the majority of cases.

I could go on about the silliness of the 35-hour work week voted in by a Socialist Government in 2000 by lowering the numbers of hours worked in a week from 39.5 to 35, at the same pay-rate. The French are good workers, but unlike the Americans who think it is a "way of life".

One can argue in favor of one situation or another, but none is a silver bullet.

The US situation is wholly undesirable in my eyes (loss of family ties, prevalent poverty, pointless consumerist life, etc). As for other European countries, they achieved a high employment usually at the cost of more precarity and more poor workers. And everywhere median wages have declined, faster in the USA and other countries than in France, while the cost of essential goods was increasing (housing, energy, food). One can argue for any of those models, but mind you the French one has its pros that are too quickly dismissed in France.

Like everyone and his brother I advocate for a radical simplification, an universal contract with progressive rights, and more part-time, but I know from first hand experience that this solution is overblown, nearly not as important as many believe, and its cons understated. It will merely boost the local services. On the rest of the economy the benefit will be marginal. The best gain is that it should help the integration of the youth and disenfranchised, at the expense of others.


On a side note, the govt will eventually HAVE to intervene to decrease the weekly work time. Because the job destruction rate will continue to increase with time while the job creation rate will decrease. And the next technological disruption will smash the intellectual professions (whose numbers are already declining in favor of intermediary ones).

France has not known an unemployment rate less than 7% since the 1990s - which is more than a quarter of a century ago. And every five years (of a presidential term) the same tired faces show up to "lead the nation". And most haven't the foggiest notion of where to take it - but that's not a consideration since they are all ENArques.

Of course you are against the énarques, like everyone else (but me). But almost all US presidents come from the Ivy League, and almost all British prime ministers come from Oxford. The reproduction of elites is the norm everywhere.

Remove the énarques and you will see Sciences Po replace it. What an improvement. Remove Sciences Po and it will be the ESSEC and HEC. This would be even worse.

 

[Abbazorkzog]

I know about Islam. And your politicians.

:lamo