France- 1/3 of Muslims Reject French Law in Favor of Sharia Law (1 Viewer)

[truthatallcost]

We were talking about Muslim immigrants as compared to your Irish ancestors...when you mentioned the 9/11 hijackers as if they represented American Muslim immigrants.

9/11 occurred during a period when Muslim migration to the US was occurring, as it still is. If Irishmen had killed 3,000 Americans during the 1840's when Irish migration was at its peak, the US would have ended immigration from Ireland, and deported the Irish immigrants that were here.

I think it's fair to compare Irish immigrant terrorism and Muslim immigrant terrorism...yes. I posted several links about it. But who could forget that Irish Americans funded the IRA and all horrible bombings that killed hundreds of people? Not me, I was in London and had shopped at Harrod's the day before it was bombed by the IRA. So don't tell me it didn't exist.

Irish terrorism existed in Ireland and the U.K., not in the U.S.
Irish Americans that funded the IRA were not immigrants.

Furthermore, the IRA was not a global problem. Islamic terrorism occurs frequently all around the world, and has struck Europe, Asia, Africa, North America, and Australia.

 

[Hawkeye10]

9/11 occurred during a period when Muslim migration to the US was occurring, as it still is. If Irishmen had killed 3,000 Americans during the 1840's when Irish migration was at its peak, the US would have ended immigration from Ireland, and deported the Irish immigrants that were here.



Irish terrorism existed in Ireland and the U.K., not in the U.S.
Irish Americans that funded the IRA were not immigrants.

Furthermore, the IRA was not a global problem. Islamic terrorism occurs frequently all around the world, and has struck Europe, Asia, Africa, North America, and Australia.

No fair bringing up how our ancestors had more horse sense than we moderns do. You might shake the confidence of some of these DESTINATION UTOPIA bus drivers, and we would not want that would we?

*SARCASM*

 

[truthatallcost]

No fair bringing up how our ancestors had more horse sense than we moderns do.

This!

You might shake the confidence of some of these DESTINATION UTOPIA bus drivers, and we would not want that would we?

*SARCASM*

:lol: Since they believe that they know what's best for Muslims, and that Muslim's will become assimilated liberals one day, why can't we ship the Destination Utopia bus to the Mideast?

 

[Moot]

9/11 occurred during a period when Muslim migration to the US was occurring, as it still is. If Irishmen had killed 3,000 Americans during the 1840's when Irish migration was at its peak, the US would have ended immigration from Ireland, and deported the Irish immigrants that were here.



Irish terrorism existed in Ireland and the U.K., not in the U.S.
Irish Americans that funded the IRA were not immigrants.

Furthermore, the IRA was not a global problem. Islamic terrorism occurs frequently all around the world, and has struck Europe, Asia, Africa, North America, and Australia.

Apparently, Muslim migration to the US has been occurring for hundreds of years..and long before the mass Irish migration. But the last wave of Muslim immigrants began in the 60's and continues to present..

"...The first free Muslim immigrants may date back to the later 16th century, when captured Muslim soldiers were deposited on the coast of North Carolina and elsewhere in the South; if so, then the Melungeons, swarthy whites living on the Cumberland Plateau in remote parts of the southeastern United States, from Virginia to Kentucky, may be their descendants.

The modern history of Muslim immigration to the United States began a decade or so after the Civil War, consisting mostly of Levantines but also a few from Yemen, South Asia, Indonesia, and elsewhere. For example, some 700 Punjabi farmers, some of them Muslims, emigrated from India to California. This second wave of immigration lasted, with numerical ups and downs, until 1924, when the door to non-European immigration clanged nearly shut. Over the next 40 years, the few Muslim immigrants tended to be Soviet-bloc refugees who arrived in the aftermath of World War II. By the time of the landmark 1965 change in the immigration law, about 100,000 to 150,000 Muslims lived in the United States.

That 1965 legislation imitated the third wave of immigration, which continues to the present...."

Muslim Immigrants in the United States | Center for Immigration Studies​

Hmm...interesting. So if Muslims have been steadily migrating to US for at least 40 years then of course they were migrating before 9/11. But to connect that to 9/11 is a real stretch because the hijackers weren't immigrants...they were Saudi nationals and followers of an extreme branch of Wahhabism that wanted to destroy the US...not live in it. Muslims that migrate here come from over 100 countries....but very few seem to come from Saudi Arabia.

Irish Americans were the IRA's main source of funding and weapons. Who knows how many young Irish Americans were lured into going to fight with the IRA...but there were quite a few helping them right here on our soil...

"...I concede there is one major difference: The Irish terrorists were setting off their bombs across the ocean and not in New York or Boston, which somehow made the whole thing seem less real. But in Britain the explosions were real enough. In 1982 -- the year an IRA bomb killed eight people in Hyde Park -- four IRA men were arrested in New York after trying to buy surface-to-air missiles from an FBI agent. In 1984 -- the year the IRA tried to kill the whole British cabinet in Brighton -- an IRA plot to smuggle seven tons of explosives was foiled, an action that led to the arrests of several Americans. As recently as 1999, long after the IRA had declared its cease-fire, members of an IRA group connected to an American organization, the Irish Northern Aid Committee (Noraid), were arrested for gun-running in Florida..."

Anne Applebaum - The Discreet Charm of the Terrorist Cause​

The premise of the article seems to be...why were Irish Americans so supportive of Irish terrorists in another country....and why is that different than British Muslim's support for Muslim terrorists in another country? No one abroad seems to question that Irish Americans supported IRA terrorists...the only question seems to be why? Is it because the Irish never really assimilated into our culture? Or because they hate their new country...or what? I only ask because those seem to be the same questions we ask about Muslim immigrants.

 

[truthatallcost]

Apparently, Muslim migration to the US has been occurring for hundreds of years..and long before the mass Irish migration. But the last wave of Muslim immigrants began in the 60's and continues to present..

"...The first free Muslim immigrants may date back to the later 16th century, when captured Muslim soldiers were deposited on the coast of North Carolina and elsewhere in the South; if so, then the Melungeons, swarthy whites living on the Cumberland Plateau in remote parts of the southeastern United States, from Virginia to Kentucky, may be their descendants.

The modern history of Muslim immigration to the United States began a decade or so after the Civil War, consisting mostly of Levantines but also a few from Yemen, South Asia, Indonesia, and elsewhere. For example, some 700 Punjabi farmers, some of them Muslims, emigrated from India to California. This second wave of immigration lasted, with numerical ups and downs, until 1924, when the door to non-European immigration clanged nearly shut. Over the next 40 years, the few Muslim immigrants tended to be Soviet-bloc refugees who arrived in the aftermath of World War II. By the time of the landmark 1965 change in the immigration law, about 100,000 to 150,000 Muslims lived in the United States.

That 1965 legislation imitated the third wave of immigration, which continues to the present...."

Muslim Immigrants in the United States | Center for Immigration Studies​

There were 100,000 Muslims in the US in 1965, a tiny blip of the population. Thanks. The good old days, eh?

Hmm...interesting. So if Muslims have been steadily migrating to US for at least 40 years then of course they were migrating before 9/11. But to connect that to 9/11 is a real stretch because the hijackers weren't immigrants...they were Saudi nationals and followers of an extreme branch of Wahhabism that wanted to destroy the US...not live in it. Muslims that migrate here come from over 100 countries....but very few seem to come from Saudi Arabia.

Did you know that more Muslims have come to the US during Obama's administration than ever before? Exciting isn't it.

Irish Americans were the IRA's main source of funding and weapons. Who knows how many young Irish Americans were lured into going to fight with the IRA...but there were quite a few helping them right here on our soil...

"...I concede there is one major difference: The Irish terrorists were setting off their bombs across the ocean and not in New York or Boston, which somehow made the whole thing seem less real. But in Britain the explosions were real enough. In 1982 -- the year an IRA bomb killed eight people in Hyde Park -- four IRA men were arrested in New York after trying to buy surface-to-air missiles from an FBI agent. In 1984 -- the year the IRA tried to kill the whole British cabinet in Brighton -- an IRA plot to smuggle seven tons of explosives was foiled, an action that led to the arrests of several Americans. As recently as 1999, long after the IRA had declared its cease-fire, members of an IRA group connected to an American organization, the Irish Northern Aid Committee (Noraid), were arrested for gun-running in Florida..."

Anne Applebaum - The Discreet Charm of the Terrorist Cause​

The premise of the article seems to be...why were Irish Americans so supportive of Irish terrorists in another country....and why is that different than British Muslim's support for Muslim terrorists in another country? No one abroad seems to question that Irish Americans supported IRA terrorists...the only question seems to be why? Is it because the Irish never really assimilated into our culture? Or because they hate their new country...or what? I only ask because those seem to be the same questions we ask about Muslim immigrants.

It is true that a small portion of Irish-Americans have always supported the Irish Republican Army, but the importance of the money they raised and the weapons they procurred for the republican movement tended to be exaggerated - mostly by the British, Irish and American governments in an attempt to persuade Americans not to contribute to IRA support groups

Special Reports - America And The Conflict | The Ira & Sinn Fein | FRONTLINE | PBS

:2wave: Nite Moot

 

[Auvergnat]

Then, like we had to once, your country has to deal with a population that feels disenfranchised and powerless to change its economic prospects.

No, their economic prospects have changed! The social excuse was mere magical thinking all along.

This is a cultural problem, not an economic one. The majority of them want a different civilization model. An authoritarian and collectivist society, based on Islamic prescriptions and values. And they want to live in Muslim-dominated environments..

I've lived in nations that were 90% muslim and the last one was approx. 50% muslim (Nigeria) so I think I have pretty good experience of muslims. What's yours? You ever visit or dine with muslims, speak with them about their dreams and aspirations for their kids?

I grew up in a Muslim suburb in France.

The population in general, did you read my link?

No, I thought you were quoting me.

So your link mentioned unqualified Muslims and compared them to population in general. Given that they are comparing a relatively young population (Muslims) to a rather old one (rest of pop), the figure you focused on is inconclusive since education was far shorter in the past. More anecdotally unqualified people are mostly found in poor classes, so even though it is about the the population in general, it is actually dominantly a comparison with poor people. As for other indicators, especially superior education, unsurprisingly they fare worse.

And with that, we come to one reason muslims find it hard to assimilate especially if the host culture is suspicious and uninterested in assimilating them whatever they do.

The hell with that! The vast majority of them still find jobs, it just takes them a bit longer. You are desperately trying to find excuses to explain Islamism, this is ridiculous.

And there is ALWAYS discrimination and there will ALWAYS be. Yet it never prevented Asians, Italians or anyone else but Muslim to assimilate. And Muslims themselves do discriminate openly, I can't count the number of job offers on Facebook asking for a "a brother" or "a sister".

If your only solution to assimilate Muslims is to make sure that humans do not behave like humans, this will never work.

You have proof to suggest otherwise? The whole article I linked you suggests otherwise so I have backed my argument up.

I saw nothing in your article that would link the abandonment of Islamic values to economic achievements.

people are more at risk from idiots dressed as killer clowns and chasing kids with axes and worse than they are from jihadi muslims.

Hundreds were killed this year and last year in France by jihadists. They account for a half to a third of our homicides, and this could increase. But I am sure you will tell me it is our fault, that we didn't give them enough! **** you!

But jihadism is the least of our problems with Islam! Our problem with Islam is Islam, its proselytism and its disgusting cultural influence. They are not trying to become standard British or French, they are trying to make us repel the legacy of the Enlightenment to make room for the legacy of Muhammad, the 7th century pedophile who teaches us submission. This is revolting.

 

[truthatallcost]

No, their economic prospects have changed! The social excuse was mere magical thinking all along.

This is a cultural problem, not an economic one. The majority of them want a different civilization model. An authoritarian and collectivist society, based on Islamic prescriptions and values. And they want to live in Muslim-dominated environments..


I grew up in a Muslim suburb in France.


No, I thought you were quoting me.

So your link mentioned unqualified Muslims and compared them to population in general. Given that they are comparing a relatively young population (Muslims) to a rather old one (rest of pop), the figure you focused on is inconclusive since education was far shorter in the past. More anecdotally unqualified people are mostly found in poor classes, so even though it is about the the population in general, it is actually dominantly a comparison with poor people. As for other indicators, especially superior education, unsurprisingly they fare worse.


The hell with that! The vast majority of them still find jobs, it just takes them a bit longer. You are desperately trying to find excuses to explain Islamism, this is ridiculous.

And there is ALWAYS discrimination and there will ALWAYS be. Yet it never prevented Asians, Italians or anyone else but Muslim to assimilate. And Muslims themselves do discriminate openly, I can't count the number of job offers on Facebook asking for a "a brother" or "a sister".

If your only solution to assimilate Muslims is to make sure that humans do not behave like humans, this will never work.


I saw nothing in your article that would link the abandonment of Islamic values to economic achievements.


Hundreds were killed this year and last year in France by jihadists. They account for a half to a third of our homicides, and this could increase. But I am sure you will tell me it is our fault, that we didn't give them enough! **** you!

But jihadism is the least of our problems with Islam! Our problem with Islam is Islam, its proselytism and its disgusting cultural influence. They are not trying to become standard British or French, they are trying to make us repel the legacy of the Enlightenment to make room for the legacy of Muhammad, the 7th century pedophile who teaches us submission. This is revolting.

Magnifique!

 

[Infinite Chaos]

No, their economic prospects have changed! The social excuse was mere magical thinking all along.

In English?

This is a cultural problem, not an economic one. The majority of them want a different civilization model. An authoritarian and collectivist society, based on Islamic prescriptions and values. And they want to live in Muslim-dominated environments..

Which is why they come to a non muslim country? Again, Scotland gives you a good example of muslims integrating and mixing.

~ I grew up in a Muslim suburb in France.

OK, but as I say I have lived in muslim countries.

~ No, I thought you were quoting me.

:roll:

So your link mentioned unqualified Muslims and compared them to population in general. Given that they are comparing a relatively young population (Muslims) to a rather old one (rest of pop), the figure you focused on is inconclusive since education was far shorter in the past. More anecdotally unqualified people are mostly found in poor classes, so even though it is about the the population in general, it is actually dominantly a comparison with poor people. As for other indicators, especially superior education, unsurprisingly they fare worse.

No, my link compared kids from poor run down estates and schools in London vs kids from middle class, poor, monoculture and mixed culture schools in the UK. I don't know why this isn't clear from the link.

~ The hell with that! The vast majority of them still find jobs, it just takes them a bit longer. You are desperately trying to find excuses to explain Islamism, this is ridiculous.

No, I am desperately trying to get you to stick to a position. First your muslims are trying to turn France into an islamist state, they have no jobs and waste money but then you now say the vast majority find jobs. You don't like muslims - I get that, so why make up s**t to dress it up as something else?

And there is ALWAYS discrimination and there will ALWAYS be. Yet it never prevented Asians, Italians or anyone else but Muslim to assimilate. And Muslims themselves do discriminate openly, I can't count the number of job offers on Facebook asking for a "a brother" or "a sister".

If your only solution to assimilate Muslims is to make sure that humans do not behave like humans, this will never work.

Raise economic prospects. I said that, the link I gave said that. Simple statement, needs no dressing up.

~ I saw nothing in your article that would link the abandonment of Islamic values to economic achievements.

You wouldn't if it turned around and bit you on the a***e. You don't see what you refuse to see.

Hundreds were killed this year and last year in France by jihadists. They account for a half to a third of our homicides, and this could increase. But I am sure you will tell me it is our fault, that we didn't give them enough! **** you!

No, only a fool would confuse French security incompetence and losing jihadis with anything else. That's why you had those incidents.

But jihadism is the least of our problems with Islam! Our problem with Islam is Islam, its proselytism and its disgusting cultural influence. They are not trying to become standard British or French, they are trying to make us repel the legacy of the Enlightenment to make room for the legacy of Muhammad, the 7th century pedophile who teaches us submission. This is revolting.

I get that in each and every one of your posts. Do you understand any difference between sunni and shia? Between Ahmadiyya and Shia or Ahmadiyya and Sunni or even between Turk and sunni or shia? Or kurds?

Or are they all just "brown people" to you?

 

[zyzygy]

Which is why they come to a non muslim country? Again, Scotland gives you a good example of muslims integrating and mixing.

Our town is a good example too. We have had Muslim immigration, a lot of them had to flee for their lives. They fit in, they run the night shops, some have opened restaurants, they get jobs. There is no mosque in this town and they are not pushing for one. Contrary to the views of certain members here who know nothing about Islam not all Muslims are fervent believers who pray five times a day and are under orders to kill all unbelievers.

 

[Auvergnat]

In English?

You seem to believe that as soon as an Islamist gets a job, he suddenly becomes a western secular liberal. This is magical thinking.

Muslim do not keep their culture because of lack of economic prospects, they simply love their culture. And they do not want your culture. You have your own morale and ideals, and they have theirs.


If you really want to assimilate Muslims, then you must understand how individuals can shift to other cultural values. This is not automatic. At the very least it requires people to be a tiny scattered minority (unlike Muslims) among the majority. And it requires this majority to exert peer pressure, to actively promote and impose its values, to not idealize minorities, to not lose itself into morale relativism, to not be afraid to be critical and offensive towards this minority. All sort of conditions that are not satisfied today with Muslims in the West.

Ibn Khaldoun was historically the first one to have studied assimilation (of non-Muslims by Muslim conquerors), maybe it could interest you. He emphasizes assabiyah (cohesion/conviction). Today their assabiyah is strong, ours is weak.

Which is why they come to a non muslim country? Again, Scotland gives you a good example of muslims integrating and mixing.

Most of them come for money, comfort and security, not for your civilizational model, which they often despise. But they know that they will be able to live in Muslim communities where they will live according to Islamic norms, for the most part.

And again I do not think you have the slightest idea of what happens in Scotland's suburbs. Just because you do live in Scotland and you perhaps have one Muslim friend does not make you knowledgeable about Scottish suburbs, far from it.

OK, but as I say I have lived in muslim countries.

Yes, you lived in a country where half of the states democratically adopted the Sharia and, there, you learned that Muslims want the western model. :roll:

This leaves me skeptic as to how well you actually blended among the Muslim population.

I get that in each and every one of your posts. Do you understand any difference between sunni and shia? Between Ahmadiyya and Shia or Ahmadiyya and Sunni or even between Turk and sunni or shia? Or kurds? Or are they all just "brown people" to you?

I can fairly say that I know a lot more about them than most of Muslims I know of. And I add that if you cared to read my posts before, you would know that I often make distinctions.

But given that the vast majority of Muslims we see in France and Britain are Sunnis, and that others are not immune from the same problems, is there a point to noise our messages with oratory precautions? Note the "we", as your own messages are no different.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

You seem to believe that as soon as an Islamist gets a job, he suddenly becomes a western secular liberal. This is magical thinking.

Later below, you pretend you make distinctions. You believe all muslims are "islamists?" To answer your question, no I do not believe that as soon as a radical fundamentalist gets a job that he or she becomes a secular liberal.
I however do not believe all muslims are islamists.

Muslim do not keep their culture because of lack of economic prospects, they simply love their culture. And they do not want your culture. You have your own morale and ideals, and they have theirs.

Ah, that is your distinction? You swap the word islamist for muslim so easily and so often because you believe they are one and the same. Anyhow, your question is a double negative - please reword it.

If you really want to assimilate Muslims, then you must understand how individuals can shift to other cultural values. This is not automatic.

You do know how long muslims have lived in Europe (France and Britain for example) and how they have not been jihadis or islamists for all that time?
Now you answer me a question, were the battles in the early dark ages before Charles Martel between Christians and muslims or Christians and jihadis?

At the very least it requires people to be a tiny scattered minority (unlike Muslims) among the majority. And it requires this majority to exert peer pressure, to actively promote and impose its values, to not idealize minorities, to not lose itself into morale relativism, to not be afraid to be critical and offensive towards this minority. All sort of conditions that are not satisfied today with Muslims in the West.

Nothing I disagree with there.

Ibn Khaldoun was historically the first one to have studied assimilation (of non-Muslims by Muslim conquerors), maybe it could interest you. He emphasizes assabiyah (cohesion/conviction). Today their assabiyah is strong, ours is weak.

That I disagree with. In the UK we were blind for a time to radical jihadi preachers but no more, our security services have prevented many attacks, sometimes with the aid of muslim informants.

~ Most of them come for money, comfort and security, not for your civilizational model, which they often despise. But they know that they will be able to live in Muslim communities where they will live according to Islamic norms, for the most part.

I think we are back to your islamists here.

And again I do not think you have the slightest idea of what happens in Scotland's suburbs. Just because you do live in Scotland and you perhaps have one Muslim friend does not make you knowledgeable about Scottish suburbs, far from it.

Haha. Foolishness.

~Yes, you lived in a country where half of the states democratically adopted the Sharia and, there, you learned that Muslims want the western model. :roll:

None of those countries had sharia. It happened in remote villages but then child sacrifice happened in other remote parts where other religions were the norm

This leaves me skeptic as to how well you actually blended among the Muslim population.

Speaking as someone who can't tell the difference between islamists and muslims, you don't surprise me with that statement.

I can fairly say that I know a lot more about them than most of Muslims I know of. And I add that if you cared to read my posts before, you would know that I often make distinctions.

haha! If you are genuine you could find me such posts easily and post them?

But given that the vast majority of Muslims we see in France and Britain are Sunnis, and that others are not immune from the same problems, is there a point to noise our messages with oratory precautions? Note the "we", as your own messages are no different.

Again and in English please?

 

[Fishking]

And so what? 3 million people in France, a population of 66 million..think that Sharia should trump French law?

1/5 of Americans think the Sun goes around the Earth.. stupidity happens in all societies.

When is the last time anyone has been killed because they drew a picture of Jesus?

 

[truthatallcost]

Our town is a good example too. We have had Muslim immigration, a lot of them had to flee for their lives. They fit in, they run the night shops, some have opened restaurants, they get jobs. There is no mosque in this town and they are not pushing for one. Contrary to the views of certain members here who know nothing about Islam not all Muslims are fervent believers who pray five times a day and are under orders to kill all unbelievers.

Didn't your country outlaw the veil? It's still legal here in the U.S.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Didn't your country outlaw the veil? It's still legal here in the U.S.

You have a link to that? He's from and in the UK.

 

[truthatallcost]

You have a link to that? He's from and in the UK.

No, my mistake IC. I was under the impression that he was from Belgium.

 

[Auvergnat]

Later below, you pretend you make distinctions. You believe all muslims are "islamists?" To answer your question, no I do not believe that as soon as a radical fundamentalist gets a job that he or she becomes a secular liberal.
I however do not believe all muslims are islamists.

* A short majority of Muslims are islamists.
* A vast majority of Muslims want to live among Muslims and in a Muslim culture, and find themselves supporting Islamism even when they disagree with it (massive support for women wearing burka for ex).

That I disagree with. In the UK we were blind for a time to radical jihadi preachers but no more, our security services have prevented many attacks, sometimes with the aid of muslim informants.

Let me laugh: you promote multiculturalism, hence putting your culture on an equal footing with theirs and sketching an Anglo-Muslim cultural future, you encourage them to use the Sharia for divorce and other things, you encourage them to preserve and develop their identity, you ostracize anyone who dares to oppose the fast rise of the Muslim population, you let them build Mosques and Islamist schools, and even provide them with financial assistance to do so, you let them publicly hold Islamist conferences and salons, and you probably teach them Arab.

You could as well offer them toilet paper with the British flag on it. Your assabiyah is damn weak! Even weaker than France's, and it is no wonder that so many Muslims think they are going to islamize our countries. We need to learn again that we are sovereigns on our land, that we have the right to decide what we want for our countries, and command others to submit to it without compromising by fear of conflict or fear of 1933.

You do know how long muslims have lived in Europe (France and Britain for example) and how they have not been jihadis or islamists for all that time?
Now you answer me a question, were the battles in the early dark ages before Charles Martel between Christians and muslims or Christians and jihadis?

There numbers were so small until a few decades ago that they were insignificant. Using this past to support the current invasion of Muslims is shameless history rewriting. Moreover at this time no one was dumb enough to talk about multiculturalism: if you didn't keep a low profile or disrespected the majority's will, you were quickly executed on a public place.

As for the early battles between Muslims and Christians, some were territorial conflicts, others were religious ones. What is your point in bringing events more than a millenium old?

None of those countries had sharia. It happened in remote villages but then child sacrifice happened in other remote parts where other religions were the norm

Half of Nigerian states democratically adopted the Sharia in 1999

Maybe you lived in Nigeria, but you obviously know nothing about religion in this country and its dramatic political consequences.

haha! If you are genuine you could find me such posts easily and post them?

Stop considering my time as your private property. Do it yourself: browse my posts one by one and search for occurrences of "Turk" (you will see a message about Germany where I state that Turks are a lot more moderate than others and provide a link) and "Senegal" (you will see a post where I put Sufis apart).

 

[PeteEU]

When is the last time anyone has been killed because they drew a picture of Jesus?

Drawing a picture of Jesus is not a sin according to the bible. However children being burned and killed because they are suspected witches... every month most likely.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

* A short majority of Muslims are islamists.
* A vast majority of Muslims want to live among Muslims and in a Muslim culture, and find themselves supporting Islamism even when they disagree with it (massive support for women wearing burka for ex).

So those muslims who go on "not in my name" marches or who saved jewish victims in the attacks in Paris or who refuse to support jihadis or who work with security services are what?

And what about Ahmaddiyahs? No mention of them? Are you aware of them?

~ Let me laugh: you promote multiculturalism

Where have I?

hence putting your culture on an equal footing with theirs and sketching an Anglo-Muslim cultural future

Where have I?

you encourage them

Where have I?

to use the Sharia for divorce and other things, you encourage them to preserve and develop their identity, you ostracize anyone who dares to oppose the fast rise of the Muslim population, you let them build Mosques and Islamist schools, and even provide them with financial assistance to do so, you let them publicly hold Islamist conferences and salons, and you probably teach them Arab.

You frothing at the mouth as you write this stuff?

You could as well offer them toilet paper with the British flag on it. Your assabiyah is damn weak! Even weaker than France's, and it is no wonder that so many Muslims think they are going to islamize our countries. We need to learn again that we are sovereigns on our land, that we have the right to decide what we want for our countries, and command others to submit to it without compromising by fear of conflict or fear of 1933.

You live in a lot of fear I'm afraid.

~ There numbers were so small until a few decades ago that they were insignificant. Using this past to support the current invasion of Muslims is shameless history rewriting.

No it's not. Did you have jihadis coming to France once Wahhabism started in the 19th Century? Do you even know when the real problems started or is it all just a pool of fear for you?

Half of Nigerian states democratically adopted the Sharia in 1999

Maybe you lived in Nigeria, but you obviously know nothing about religion in this country and its dramatic political consequences.

There are 36 states in Nigeria and 9 have committed to Nigeria. Do you know how to do maths and percentages? Does 9 = half of 36?

Do you think the sharia is the extreme version you read about in the Middle East or something else?

Simply, do you know anything about anything? And by the way, I left in 1995.

Stop considering my time as your private property. Do it yourself:

Debate doesn't work that way, you made a claim so it should be easy to find lots of examples. You make a claim - you back it up. The fact you could only remember one or two means you generally lied about differentiating between muslim sects.

 

[Auvergnat]

Do you even know when the real problems started

Do you?

* It started in the 90's in the West, when the global Islamist movements that started growing in Egypt and elsewhere in the 70's finally reached our shores.
* But those Islamist movements were actually initiated under colonization, in the 30's, before they fell behind Arab nationalism.
* But those movements were themselves copycats of older movements, that started before colonization, to oppose the westernization that some Arab leaders and thinkers were promoting to save their stagnating countries.
* But those movements were simply reviving older forms of fundamentalism and radicalism that have been present all along in the Muslim world, and simply took modern forms in the modern world.


But of course you know nothing about this, do you? Instead, like everyone else over the past years, you have heard a very simple story about Wahhabism, cast as the root of all evil, a clear enemy without which Islam would be a religion of peace and everything would be good and well. A simple target to destroy. And we will invade this country because it satisfies the interests of those who are telling this simple story and we will discover that, in the end, it changed nothing. Because the problem is with Islam in general, not this or that movement.

 

[Auvergnat]

That being said note that even without the revival of Islam, you cannot import a boundless amount of people with another culture from yours without problems. They do change your culture in the end, among other problems, and you do not want this. With Muslims we are already beyond the critical mass, and theirs was very low.

 

[Fishking]

Drawing a picture of Jesus is not a sin according to the bible. However children being burned and killed because they are suspected witches... every month most likely.

Oh really? I must have somehow missed all these EU children being burned for witchcraft. The media is suppressing the truth!

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Do you?

Yeah, more than you think.

* It started in the 90's in the West, when the global Islamist movements that started growing in Egypt and elsewhere in the 70's finally reached our shores.
* But those Islamist movements were actually initiated under colonization, in the 30's, before they fell behind Arab nationalism.
* But those movements were themselves copycats of older movements, that started before colonization, to oppose the westernization that some Arab leaders and thinkers were promoting to save their stagnating countries.
* But those movements were simply reviving older forms of fundamentalism and radicalism that have been present all along in the Muslim world, and simply took modern forms in the modern world.


But of course you know nothing about this, do you? Instead, like everyone else over the past years, you have heard a very simple story about Wahhabism, cast as the root of all evil, a clear enemy without which Islam would be a religion of peace and everything would be good and well. A simple target to destroy. And we will invade this country because it satisfies the interests of those who are telling this simple story and we will discover that, in the end, it changed nothing. Because the problem is with Islam in general, not this or that movement.

Yeah right.

 

[PeteEU]

Oh really? I must have somehow missed all these EU children being burned for witchcraft. The media is suppressing the truth!

Who said anything about EU children? Well some might hold dual British and Nigerian passports.. but.. still who said anything about EU children?

 

[zyzygy]

Later below, you pretend you make distinctions. You believe all muslims are "islamists?" To answer your question, no I do not believe that as soon as a radical fundamentalist gets a job that he or she becomes a secular liberal.
I however do not believe all muslims are islamists.

?

They are not. I know many Muslims and they are not Islamists. Not all Christians bomb abortion clinics.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

They are not. I know many Muslims and they are not Islamists. Not all Christians bomb abortion clinics.

Yes but it's so easy and popular to speak in the very broadest definitions about muslims isn't it!