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Founding Fathers were WRONG

Your Second Amendment rights were precluded quite a bit in our history, with such restrictions holding up pre-Heller.
Yes, numerous unconstitutional infringements have been struck down by the courts. That’s what they are there for.

You right to bear arms are precluded by TSA inspectors before you are allowed to get on an airplane, and I assume by security guards at the entrance to Congress.
Nope. I don’t have 2nd amendment rights on someone else’s private property.

As far as I know, fully automatic machine guns are restricted in some ways.
Sort of. But that is also working its way through the courts as we speak.

None of this has anything to do with my post that you quoted.
 
It's something you have to deal with you can't summon a genie to make them all disappear.

No, you need a gun ban.

Making them illegal will make sure that I only criminals have them.

Specifically, fewer and fewer criminals.

Too bad you live in a world where guns exist.

Yet strangely that is not a major problem in the UK
It is a huge problem in the USA.

The only question you have is whether you can use them to defend yourself or if your government says no they can only be used against you.

I propose all guns are banned but the National Executive has the authority to except certain one
Even under the UK's strict gun laws, people (unless it can be shown they are not responsible) can still have some guns, if they really feel the need to have one for protection.

You want the government to say that can only be used against you.

If you become a criminal.
 
No, you need a gun ban.



Specifically, fewer and fewer criminals.



Yet strangely that is not a major problem in the UK
It is a huge problem in the USA.



I propose all guns are banned but the National Executive has the authority to except certain one
Even under the UK's strict gun laws, people (unless it can be shown they are not responsible) can still have some guns, if they really feel the need to have one for protection.

No, they can only have guns if someone else feels their need is sufficient.

You often argue that you can determine the needs of others. Strange you could have missed the self-contradiction in your above claim.


If you become a criminal.
 
No, you need a gun ban.
That works so well. That's why there is nobody addicted to heroin or cocaine or methamphetamine right. It's bad so therefore it doesn't exist.

This is the most brain dead approach to this I've ever heard.
Specifically, fewer and fewer criminals.
Why would it be fewer more people are going to keep their guns regardless of some unconstitutional law. So overnight you'll probably make about 50 million more criminals.
Yet strangely that is not a major problem in the UK
It is a huge problem in the USA.
The guns are already here.
I propose all guns are banned but the National Executive has the authority to except certain one
No if the executive tries to ban all guns the supreme Court will come by the next day and slap his dumb ass. What you have to do in order to do this is overthrow the government and install a dictator.
Even under the UK's strict gun laws
Doesn't matter in the slightest this is in the UK.

If you become a criminal.
Exactly they say criminals can use them against you. But you can't use them to defend yourself essentially taking away your right to self-defense. Unsubsequently every other right you have that's why in the UK we see other rights eroding they don't have free speech anymore or freedom of religion.
 
That works so well.

Yes it does, as UK and Japan gun control prove.

That's why there is nobody addicted to heroin or cocaine or methamphetamine right. It's bad so therefore it doesn't exist.

Equivocation fallacy

In the UK both hard drugs (heroin, cocaine, LSD etc) and most firearms are banned (privately owned firearms that is)
But while gun crime (crime involving the use of at least one firearm) is very rare, sadly the UK has a big drugs problem

Proving that just because it is hard to significantly reduce firearms numbers with a ban, the same is not true for drugs.

Why would it be fewer more people are going to keep their guns regardless of some unconstitutional law.

Nope, if the USA had a firearms ban, along the lines I have proposed, Americans would meekly hand in their guns
But, if some Americans really wanted some kind of firearm, then a few types of firearm would be available.

The guns are already here.

And a gun ban removes a significant number of them.

No if the executive tries to ban all guns the supreme Court will come by the next day and slap his dumb ass.

As I've said multiple times, there can be no significant gun control without a repeal of the 2nd Amendment.

Exactly they say criminals can use them against you.

Which is the whole point of gun control
If criminals didn't use them in committing their crimes, there would be no gun control debate.
 
Yes it does, as UK and Japan gun control prove.

Strangely enough, the experience of other countries doesn't prove it.

Equivocation fallacy

You use that so often, one could be forgiven for thinking you know what it means.

In the UK both hard drugs (heroin, cocaine, LSD etc) and most firearms are banned (privately owned firearms that is)
But while gun crime (crime involving the use of at least one firearm) is very rare, sadly the UK has a big drugs problem

People in the UK like to use drugs. So?
Proving that just because it is hard to significantly reduce firearms numbers with a ban, the same is not true for drugs.

I think you should re-write that.
Nope, if the USA had a firearms ban, along the lines I have proposed, Americans would meekly hand in their guns

There are a large number of people right now in the US, who are absolutely prohibited from possessing firearms. Are they meekly handing them in?

But, if some Americans really wanted some kind of firearm, then a few types of firearm would be available.

I guess just select at random.
And a gun ban removes a significant number of them.



As I've said multiple times, there can be no significant gun control without a repeal of the 2nd Amendment.



Which is the whole point of gun control
If criminals didn't use them in committing their crimes, there would be no gun control debate.

Criminals use lots of things in committing crimes. There is a gun control debate because there is a Gun Control Industry just 'et the **** up with fallacy and propaganda.
 
Yes, numerous unconstitutional infringements have been struck down by the courts. That’s what they are there for.


Nope. I don’t have 2nd amendment rights on someone else’s private property.
City Halls, legislatures, and the Capitol are public property.
Sort of. But that is also working its way through the courts as we speak.

None of this has anything to do with my post that you quoted.
The court in Helier gave its ok to restrictions.
 
City Halls, legislatures, and the Capitol are public property.

The court in Helier gave its ok to restrictions.

Any and all restrictions? No.
 
City Halls, legislatures, and the Capitol are public property.
Nope. They are secure areas. Like the capital building, whitehouse etc. not public property.

The court in Helier gave its ok to restrictions.
Nope. It specifically laid out what you can’t restrict. The McDonald, Caetano and Bruen rulings expanded on what you can’t restrict.
 
Nope. They are secure areas. Like the capital building, whitehouse etc. not public property.
They are not private property. That was my point.
Nope. It specifically laid out what you can’t restrict. The McDonald, Caetano and Bruen rulings expanded on what you can’t restrict.
They said some restrictions could be ok without specifying.
 
Yes it does,
Nobody ever has anything that isn't legal to own or poses.
as UK and Japan gun control prove.
Dump 50 million guns there and it'll be proven wrong
Equivocation fallacy

In the UK both hard drugs (heroin, cocaine, LSD etc) and most firearms are banned (privately owned firearms that is)
But while gun crime (crime involving the use of at least one firearm) is very rare, sadly the UK has a big drugs problem
So it's not the magical laws it's that there aren't guns there. There are here.

Please try thinking before posting next time.
Proving that just because it is hard to significantly reduce firearms numbers with a ban, the same is not true for drugs.
I don't think it's hard I think it's impossible. And no the UK didn't do that.
Nope, if the USA had a firearms ban, along the lines I have proposed, Americans would meekly hand in their guns
But, if some Americans really wanted some kind of firearm, then a few types of firearm would be available.
That didn't even happen in Australia.
And a gun ban removes a significant number of them.
Through magic?
As I've said multiple times, there can be no significant gun control without a repeal of the 2nd Amendment.
So maybe try finding a lamp with a genie in it.
Which is the whole point of gun control
If criminals didn't use them in committing their crimes, there would be no gun control debate.
There is no gun control debate. There is you lying and everybody else knowing that you are.
 
Strangely enough, the experience of other countries doesn't prove it.
UK has all sorts of problems with contraband if there were more guns than people there they'd have problems with that too
You use that so often, one could be forgiven for thinking you know what it means.



People in the UK like to use drugs. So?


I think you should re-write that.


There are a large number of people right now in the US, who are absolutely prohibited from possessing firearms. Are they meekly handing them in?



I guess just select at random.


Criminals use lots of things in committing crimes. There is a gun control debate because there is a Gun Control Industry just 'et the **** up with fallacy and propaganda.
 
Nobody ever has anything that isn't legal to own or poses.

I assume you mean "possess"

And many people own things that it is not legal for them to own or posses. And there are laws making this a felony:

"O.C.G.A. § 16-13-30 makes it illegal for a person to possess, purchase, or have under their control any controlled substance"

Dump 50 million guns there and it'll be proven wrong

Stupid opinion.

Do that and get US levels of gun violence, mass shootings etc
Oddly enough the British and Japanese people aren't too enthusiastic about that

So it's not the magical laws it's that there aren't guns there. There are here.

And a gun ban will make most of them not here.

Please try thinking before posting next time.

Like your mindless comment above about "dumping 50 million guns" with zero effect of gun violence levels ?
Comment devoid of any thought like that ?

There is no gun control debate.

No, forums like this are just figments of your imagination.
/s
 
Of course it does.


Because it’s not public property.
The streets are public property, except I assume in gated communities. But perhaps we are talking past one another. Can you define or give examples of public property?
 
The streets are public property, except I assume in gated communities. But perhaps we are talking past one another. Can you define or give examples of public property?

Yeah, you don't get arrested for jaywalking on private property, especially if it's your own property.
 
I assume you mean "possess"

And many people own things that it is not legal for them to own or posses. And there are laws making this a felony:

"O.C.G.A. § 16-13-30 makes it illegal for a person to possess, purchase, or have under their control any controlled substance"
So control clearly doesn't work
Stupid opinion.

Do that and get US levels of gun violence, mass shootings etc
Oddly enough the British and Japanese people aren't too enthusiastic about that
So you're suggesting there's a cultural difference between the US and UK. Yeah I think so too in the UK there's a culture of obedience it's not a case in the US. The US has a culture of rebellion that's why there's a US.
And a gun ban will make most of them not here.
How? That didn't even work in Australia.
Like your mindless comment above about "dumping 50 million guns" with zero effect of gun violence levels ?
Comment devoid of any thought like that ?
It wasn't an argument it was an example of how you make the US and the UK similar. And thus comparable.

You can't say gun control worked there there wasn't much to control and the people of the UK are used to being controlled.

You even acknowledged cultural differences.
No, forums like this are just figments of your imagination.
/s
No The forum isn't. The forum is a great representative of how there is no debate. You don't debate you just cram your fingers in your ears and scream lalalala.
 
So control clearly doesn't work

Glad to see you can still admit when you're wrong :)

Gun control by restricting demand (ie: heavy penalties for illegal possession or use doesn't work)
Gun control be restricting supply (ie: a gun ban absolutely does work - as the UK and Japan prove).

So you're suggesting there's a cultural difference between the US and UK.

I'm suggesting that there's FAR fewer (privately owned) guns in British society, than in US society
And this translates to gun crime (crime involving the use of at least one firearm) being very rare in the UK, whereas it is relatively commonplace in the USA

2023 mass shootings: UK = ONE, USA = 604.

That didn't even work in Australia.

Explain how it didn't work in Australia.

It wasn't an argument it was an example of how you make the US and the UK similar. And thus comparable.

The UK and USA are "peer countries", what one can achieve in society, so can the other.

You can't say gun control worked there there wasn't much to control and the people of the UK are used to being controlled.

Stupid comment
The USA places restrictions/controls on its people that you are just ignorant of.

No The forum isn't. The forum is a great representative of how there is no debate. You don't debate you just cram your fingers in your ears and scream lalalala.

So in your mind everyone is of the same opinion on this forum ?
 
Glad to see you can still admit when you're wrong :)

Gun control by restricting demand (ie: heavy penalties for illegal possession or use doesn't work)
Gun control be restricting supply (ie: a gun ban absolutely does work - as the UK and Japan prove).
😆 That’s funny. Special pleading that doesn't even bother explaining itself. The only item not subject to how black markets work. We're supposed to believe that Japan and the UK are full of criminals desperately running around looking for non-existent guns. 😆
I'm suggesting that there's FAR fewer (privately owned) guns in British society, than in US society
And this translates to gun crime (crime involving the use of at least one firearm) being very rare in the UK, whereas it is relatively commonplace in the USA

2023 mass shootings: UK = ONE, USA = 604.



Explain how it didn't work in Australia.



The UK and USA are "peer countries", what one can achieve in society, so can the other.



Stupid comment
The USA places restrictions/controls on its people that you are just ignorant of.



So in your mind everyone is of the same opinion on this forum ?
 
Glad to see you can still admit when you're wrong :)
I never thought gun control worked.
Gun control by restricting demand (ie: heavy penalties for illegal possession or use doesn't work)
Gun control be restricting supply (ie: a gun ban absolutely does work - as the UK and Japan prove).
You can't restrict supply that's already here.
I'm suggesting that there's FAR fewer (privately owned) guns in British society, than in US society
It started out that way.
And this translates to gun crime (crime involving the use of at least one firearm) being very rare in the UK, whereas it is relatively commonplace in the USA
What difference does that make and if you commit suicide by swallowing pills or shooting yourself but you're still dead.

If you're trying to use the emotional pleading of you're trying to save lives you're not you're ignoring death.
2023 mass shootings: UK = ONE, USA = 604.
And I'm betting most of those took place where there was strict gun control.
Explain how it didn't work in Australia.
People didn't sell their guns to the government.
The UK and USA are "peer countries", what one can achieve in society, so can the other.
I don't know what you're trying to say here unless you're saying the US in the UK are exactly the same it doesn't mean anything
Stupid comment
The USA places restrictions/controls on its people that you are just ignorant of.
Sure but the people don't obey.
So in your mind everyone is of the same opinion on this forum ?
No it's that you can't formulate an argument. None of you anti rights people can. It's because you don't want to listen. You just want to grandstand and preach like yours talking to a religious congregation.
 
I never thought gun control worked.

You thought wrong
Examples are the UK and Japan.

You can't restrict supply that's already here.

Of course you can
How many guns do gun makers pour into the US gun market every year ?

What difference does that make and if you commit suicide by swallowing pills or shooting yourself but you're still dead.

There's a HUGE difference between someone attempting suicide by overdose or with a gun, with regard to survival rates.

I don't know what you're trying to say here unless you're saying the US in the UK are exactly the same it doesn't mean anything

They are peer countries and more alike than they are different
Yet the UK has a proud record on gun control, while the USA's record is pretty shameful

USA (pop circa 335m): 10,000 gun related homicides pa, and 604 mass shootings in 2023
UK (pop circa 68m): 29 gun related homicides and ONE mass shooting, in 2023.

Sure but the people don't obey.

How many Americans defy their government and visit countries that they are banned from going to ?
How many Americans defy their government and demand the NCIS ceases its illegal surveillance on the American people ?
How many Americans demand that the Communist Control Act be repealed ?

No it's that you can't formulate an argument. None of you anti rights people can. It's because you don't want to listen. You just want to grandstand and preach like yours talking to a religious congregation.

I am totally in favor of personal rights, all except the right to a firearm (I'm also skeptical about the right to a trial by jury)
Whereas you are against personal rights to be free from intimidation and abuse. You're also not big on the right to personal movement.
 
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