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Wilson represented the 2nd District in east Texas in the U.S. House from 1973 to 1996 and was known in Washington as "Good Time Charlie" for his reputation as a hard-drinking womanizer. He once called former congresswoman Pat Schroeder "Babycakes," and tried to take a beauty queen with him on a government trip to Afghanistan.
Former Texas Rep. Charlie Wilson Dies at 76
The man who helped bring down the Soviet Union has died.
R.I.P.
Wilson, a Democrat, was considered a progressive but also a defense hawk. He had acknowledged some responsibility for Afghanistan becoming a safe haven for al-Qaida after the Soviets retreated and the U.S. withdrew its support.
"That caused an enormous amount of real bitterness in Afghanistan and it was probably the catalyst for Taliban movement," Wilson said in a 2001 interview.
The man who helped bring down the Soviet Union has died.
R.I.P.
From the link.
RIP
Former Texas Rep. Charlie Wilson Dies at 76
The man who helped bring down the Soviet Union has died.
R.I.P.
Why do Republicans try so hard to believe Reagan and Charlie Wilson had anything to do with the actual downfall of the soviet union? Have any of you people read a book on the soviet union? At all? This myth needs to be debunked.
Why do Republicans try so hard to believe Reagan and Charlie Wilson had anything to do with the actual downfall of the soviet union? Have any of you people read a book on the soviet union? At all? This myth needs to be debunked.
I think everyone will concede that the Soviet Union was falling before Reagan came into office, and it was just a matter of time before they collapsed.
Reagan, and Wilson both did a lot to hurt the Soviets even more. In regards to what Wilson did, the Soviets were winning in Afghanistan until we sent our Stinger Missiles and other equipment over. After that, they were flat out being slaughtered. While that couldn't have caused the collapse of the Soviet Union in and of itself, it was a big kick in the pants, and IMO made them collapse up to half a decade then they might have otherwise.
I will take that challenge. The Soviet Union did have within it the seeds of it's own destruction. Those seeds where the corrupt economic systems, corrupt society, and the fact that only 52% of the population was one ethnic group - Muscovite Barbarians aka Russians. What RR did was bring attaention to the evil that the USSR was.
What Charlie Wilson did was to place a knife in the side of the Soviet Savages. What the Soviet defeat in Afghanistan did was to show not only thw worls but the captives peoples inside the prison aka as the USSR that the filty scumbags in the Kremlin could be defeated. The Afghanistan experience set the stage for the Soviet Union to go to where it belonged - the cesspool of history.
Bring attention? To whom? Because McCarthy did that LONG before Reagan did. The Germans knew about the Soviets better than most Americans ever did. So did Georgians, Lithuanians, Angolans etc. Who did Reagan bring the Soviets to? No. You're simply wrong. What Reagan did do was create a larger than God enemy in America to provide him with re-election while he began the tradition of spending the country into oblivion and social conservatism. Nothing more, nothing less.
What do you want? An applause for that emotional post? You got it. However. What knife are you talking about? The Soviet collapse was economic and infrastructural in nature. The amount of money they spent on warfare was pocket change when compared to the amount of subsidizing they did in Africa, Asia and Latin America. When this overspending of money and resources is done by a incredibly inflexible bureaucracy, it lead to the downfall of the soviets.
If you'd like to talk about the effects Afghanistan, let's talk about the effects of Afghanistan instead of engaging in your emotional rhetorical shall we? Aside from the fact that today the USSR - excuse me "Russia" - is led by the same people who led it 20-30 years ago, what exactly did the U.S. do to accomplish the "downfall" of the Soviet Union? Did it diminish the ability of the Kremlin to be a problem for the White House? In what respect? Does Russia no longer have veto power in the UNSC? Is the USSR - damn, did it again 'Russia' - no longer able to provide opposition to the U.S. on issues like Iran and North Korea? If anything the USSR - sorry, 'Russia' - has downsized. It has rescaled and reorganized. Like a company. Saying it has disappeared is quite ignorant of what has actually happened.
my mistake - thought it was an RIP thread.
Bring attention? To whom? Because McCarthy did that LONG before Reagan did. The Germans knew about the Soviets better than most Americans ever did. So did Georgians, Lithuanians, Angolans etc. Who did Reagan bring the Soviets to? No. You're simply wrong. What Reagan did do was create a larger than God enemy in America to provide him with re-election while he began the tradition of spending the country into oblivion and social conservatism. Nothing more, nothing less.
:violin:
What do you want? An applause for that emotional post? You got it. However. What knife are you talking about? The Soviet collapse was economic and infrastructural in nature. The amount of money they spent on warfare was pocket change when compared to the amount of subsidizing they did in Africa, Asia and Latin America. When this overspending of money and resources is done by a incredibly inflexible bureaucracy, it lead to the downfall of the soviets.
If you'd like to talk about the effects Afghanistan, let's talk about the effects of Afghanistan instead of engaging in your emotional rhetorical shall we? Aside from the fact that today the USSR - excuse me "Russia" - is led by the same people who led it 20-30 years ago, what exactly did the U.S. do to accomplish the "downfall" of the Soviet Union? Did it diminish the ability of the Kremlin to be a problem for the White House? In what respect? Does Russia no longer have veto power in the UNSC? Is the USSR - damn, did it again 'Russia' - no longer able to provide opposition to the U.S. on issues like Iran and North Korea? If anything the USSR - sorry, 'Russia' - has downsized. It has rescaled and reorganized. Like a company. Saying it has disappeared is quite ignorant of what has actually happened.
If anything their 'loss' in Afghanistan, was part of this downsizing. The soviets destroyed Afghanistan and the scale of such an operation could not be maintained while they provided education for Cubans and Germans in Moscow, gave mostly free oil to Georgians and fed Lithuanians & Ukrainians. No. If anything their retreat from Afghanistan came as a result of the reorganization they were about to go through. Stating anything to the contrary is simply dishonest and typical American mythology.
I think you're not giving Reagan enuogh credit.
Just in terms of the USSR, he did a lot to refocus attention at them, on the world stage. Calling them evil, demanding the destruction of the Berlin Wall, and then of course the enormous spending spree he went on. While the spending above all is hurting us now, what he did really did hurt the Soviets, perhaps forcing them to "reorganize" a few years earlier then they would otherwise have had to.
There is no doubt in anyone's mind (except perhaps deluded Communists) that the Soviet Union fell because it was corrupted in countless ways. But the fact of the matter is, Reagan and Wilson did a lot to force this realization a few years then it might have occured otherwise.
The thing that Reagan and Wilson accomplished was to force that downsizing a few years earlier then it might have otherwise have happened. I'm sure the Russians would love to have some of the resources in former Warsaw Pact nations, like oil, metals, etc.
And the bigger idea behind the fall (or restructuring, whicever you prefer) of the Soviet Union is that Communism "lost." Idealogically, this was a critical victory for NATO.
I call BS on that. I remember watching Nikita Kruschev bang his shoe and declare to the US "We will bury you". I remember the nuclear drills at my elementary school during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and during that whole time, each day, my parents, brothers, and I were not sure that we were going to live to see the next. I remember the Berlin embargo, when the US was dropping supplies into West Berlin, and Russia was threatening war for it. I remember many things as a child, about our relationship with the Russians, and what I saw shaped very much what I believe today. Reagan did not create a larger than life enemy. The Soviets did it themselves. I know for a fact because I remember it.
I think you give Reagan way too much.
How did the U.S. spending hurt the Soviets? I want to see how our overspending of financial affected a the overuse of resources practice they were already well immersed in 20-30 years before their 'downfall'?
Please explain how. Just saying that Reagan & Wilson 'forced' what was an inevitable collapse doesn't make it so. What Reagan and Wilson did was engage in an interventionist policy which had the result of filling the minds of Americans with the belief that it was Reagan who actually brought down the Soviets all by himself. It is the origins of 'AMERICA **** YEAH!' culture. Thanks.
PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW! The Russians already had massive deficits before the 80s. They already had bureaucratic issues before the 80s. They already had massive shortages of food supplies before the 80s. If anything Reagan - as always - just happened to be at the right place, at the right time to take credit for something which any historian will tell you, he had little work in.
Seriously, this isn't rocket science. Reagan's role in Soviet downfall is minimal when you compare it to the economic damage their structure was doing to them. The claim Americans make to victory is quite dishonest.
CHRIST!!!!!!!!!!!
I frakin knew a RIP thread about Good Time Charlie would degenerate into a Reagan bicker basket!
YouTube- Former Congressman Charlie Wilson's Message to Barack Obama
Next time I'm in Lufkin I'll hoist an adult beverage in his honor. Got to meet him twice, truly a silver tonged devil. How else to win an unprecedented 12 times?
Huh? Whaa? Yew sure? I think he deserves a belt or two! Relax.....................It's not an RIP thread. Notice the lack of R.I.P. before the thread name. Keep up.
Former Texas Rep. Charlie Wilson Dies at 76
The man who helped bring down the Soviet Union has died.
R.I.P.
Huh? Whaa? Yew sure? I think he deserves a belt or two! Relax.....................
You know what, come to think of it, is there an "RIP" rule/warning/sign? Seems to me, here at DP, the ones that say "NOT AN RIP THREAD" are the norm, not the opposite. Keep up.
I know I know, it gets silly trying to follow the breaking news guidelines! Pfft the thought that a mere glance at the title did not alert me to the fact this was not something conforming to it. Shame on me, you of course are Hercule Peort!:roll:
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