Five once-average schools remade into the worst in Florida.

[SlevinKelevra]

How the Pinellas County School Board neglected five schools until they became the worst in Florida | Failure factories | Tampa Bay Times | Tampa Bay Times

In just eight years, Pinellas County School Board members turned five schools in the county’s black neighborhoods into some of the worst in Florida.

First they abandoned integration, leaving the schools overwhelmingly poor and black.

Then they broke promises of more money and resources.

Then — as black children started failing at outrageous rates, as overstressed teachers walked off the job, as middle class families fled en masse — the board stood by and did nothing.

Disgusting.

 

[cpwill]

How the Pinellas County School Board neglected five schools until they became the worst in Florida | Failure factories | Tampa Bay Times | Tampa Bay Times

Disgusting.

I'll admit to not being sure what the argument is here. Are they really saying that black students can't learn unless they are helped by having lots of white students around?

 

[cpwill]

The story below the one quoted is interesting, too.

Cayton Bodden wakes up afraid to go to school.

When his mother knocks at his bedroom door, the 10-year-old hides under the covers. “No, no, no,” he groans softly.

At the breakfast table, he picks at his oatmeal, staring down in silence. He spends several minutes putting on his socks.

The more time he can put between himself and Fairmount Park Elementary, the better.

Waiting for him at the school up the road are all the things he has learned to dread: the endless shouting, the sudden brawls, the rookie teachers who can’t control their classrooms.

Just before he starts the walk to school his mother reaches down and takes his hand. She closes her eyes and prays to God to protect him from harm.

This is what it’s like to go to school in Pinellas County’s black neighborhoods...

Though the family lives about a block from Douglas L. Jamerson Jr. Elementary, one of the best magnet schools in the area, Cayton can’t get into the program. At least 60 children are ahead of him on the wait list.

“I felt like I’m setting up my child for failure. I have no control over what education I can give my child,” said Bodden, a 43-year-old single mother who works for a Tampa engineering firm. “Unless I made enough money to send him to a private school or stay at home and teach him, this is the only option I have.”

“It’s really like a parent being put in a maze,” she said. “And we have no way out of it.

Gosh, if only there was some policy out there that would allow them to escape that situation

Republicans need to start going into black communities and addressing the real civil rights issue of our era - education.

 

[ocean515]

I'll admit to not being sure what the argument is here. Are they really saying that black students can't learn unless they are helped by having lots of white students around?

I got the same impression too. Was the presence of children from other "races" diluting the poor results from Blacks and Latino children, so the drop in proficiency is reflective of the loss of this diluting effect?

Funding is usually based on student population, so has the population dropped so that it appears the funding has been reduced?

I don't like falling back on "consider the source" observations, but the Tampa Bay Times is an ubber left mouthpiece of the Progressive Machine, so I'm always a bit suspect of anything they present.

 

[cpwill]

I got the same impression too. Was the presence of children from other "races" diluting the poor results from Blacks and Latino children, so the drop in proficiency is reflective of the loss of this diluting effect?

Funding is usually based on student population, so has the population dropped so that it appears the funding has been reduced?

I don't like falling back on "consider the source" observations, but the Tampa Bay Times is an ubber left mouthpiece of the Progressive Machine, so I'm always a bit suspect of anything they present.

Yeah. It kinda seems a post hoc ergo proctor.

 

[Captain Adverse]

I grew up in the 60's and I was never a believer in "forced integration," as in bussing kids around to different school locales in order to create a false impression of equality.

IMO what should have been addressed is exactly the causes of the problem in this example; lack of sufficient funding for educational programs, assigning teachers with poor skills to such schools, lack of effective security and discipline in such schools, and refusing to hold students accountable so the system turns into a diploma mill pushing the kids through without any real education.

 

[blaxshep]

I'll admit to not being sure what the argument is here. Are they really saying that black students can't learn unless they are helped by having lots of white students around?

Just add that to the long list of excuses why the black race fails, over and over again.

 

[blaxshep]

Republicans need to start going into black communities and addressing the real civil rights issue of our era - education.

Republicans? Democrats don't need to do this too?

 

[cpwill]

Republicans? Democrats don't need to do this too?

:shrug: by and large, democrats have decided to side with public sector unions against black children, who suffer disproportionately in failing public schools. If Democrats want to increasingly come on board with enabling parents to find better schooling options for their children, and allowing them to escape failed systems, I"m all in favor of it.

 

[SlevinKelevra]

:shrug: by and large, democrats have decided to side with public sector unions against black children, who suffer disproportionately in failing public schools. If Democrats want to increasingly come on board with enabling parents to find better schooling options for their children, and allowing them to escape failed systems, I"m all in favor of it.

since it seems you are advocating for a voucher system

3 questions

1) how do you avoid the separation of church and state (that is, you can't send kids to parochial schools on taxpayer$)
2) presumably these students would go to "great" schools that are far far away from their residence. how do you solve transportation logistics?
3) what happens when the "best" schools are out of facility/space and turn kids away? seems like they're right back to their "crappy" schools

 

[AmericanSpartan]

I grew up in the 60's and I was never a believer in "forced integration," as in bussing kids around to different school locales in order to create a false impression of equality.

IMO what should have been addressed is exactly the causes of the problem in this example; lack of sufficient funding for educational programs, assigning teachers with poor skills to such schools, lack of effective security and discipline in such schools, and refusing to hold students accountable so the system turns into a diploma mill pushing the kids through without any real education.

"Equality" is bring everyone down to the lowest common denominator.

 

[AmericanSpartan]

since it seems you are advocating for a voucher system

3 questions

1) how do you avoid the separation of church and state (that is, you can't send kids to parochial schools on taxpayer$)

Yes you can, the funding is given to the parents as for them to spend it at a school of their choice, they state is separated for the school.

2) presumably these students would go to "great" schools that are far far away from their residence. how do you solve transportation logistics?

Uber contracts, or just use the internet.

3) what happens when the "best" schools are out of facility/space and turn kids away? seems like they're right back to their "crappy" schools

[/QUOTE]

It allows other schools to compete, or the just use net based education systems and it is a non issue.

But hey lets just throw money at a failed system like we are now, right? And lets dump all the poor kids from the 3rd world into America, that will make things better, right?

This is the insanity of the left.

 

[SlevinKelevra]

Yes you can, the funding is given to the parents as for them to spend it at a school of their choice, they state is separated for the school.

so if the government can give $ to parents (ignoring where they spend it...and how it violates the constitution).... surely it can give $ to Planned Parenthood then, right?

Uber contracts, or just use the internet.

putting kids in a car with an unregulated/possibly underinsured driver. LMAO
about "the internet" one of the biggest parts of school is physical socialization. learning how to actually interact with people.

It allows other schools to compete, or the just use net based education systems and it is a non issue.

that in no way answered the question.

But hey lets just throw money at a failed system like we are now, right? And lets dump all the poor kids from the 3rd world into America, that will make things better, right?

This is the insanity of the left.

non-germane drivel

 

[iguanaman]

I'll admit to not being sure what the argument is here. Are they really saying that black students can't learn unless they are helped by having lots of white students around?

The black students were subjected to neglect that white parents would not tolerate and that is what happens when schools are not integrated. It's like you were born yesterday.

 

[Mason66]

How the Pinellas County School Board neglected five schools until they became the worst in Florida | Failure factories | Tampa Bay Times | Tampa Bay Times




Disgusting.

"First they abandoned integration, leaving the schools overwhelmingly poor and black."
Are we to understand that a school can only do well if it is integrated? Is that why this is on that list?

 

[cpwill]

since it seems you are advocating for a voucher system

Sure I would.

1) how do you avoid the separation of church and state (that is, you can't send kids to parochial schools on taxpayer$)

I don't see any reason not to have vouchers go to to kids who attend parochial schools. Catholic schools in particular have excellent reputations. This is not a violation of the First Amendment which states that Congress shall enact no law concerning an establishment of religion.

2) presumably these students would go to "great" schools that are far far away from their residence. how do you solve transportation logistics?

Hopefully they would go to "great" schools. I would be happy if we can get them to better schools. I would leave that to the local level or the parents.

3) what happens when the "best" schools are out of facility/space and turn kids away? seems like they're right back to their "crappy" schools

Not very spun up on the whole "supply/demand" thing? The best schools will expand, kick out satellite campuses, split into two campuses each as large as the previous one. New schools and new forms of schooling will be created.

Regardless, if your best counterargument against this program is that it only saves (making up a number) 75% of kids in failing schools from those failing schools, as opposed to simply leaving 100% of them stuck there, I'll still chalk that up as a qualified success. Letting the perfect be the enemy of the good is a fools game, and a poor way to structure policy.

 

[Mason66]

since it seems you are advocating for a voucher system

3 questions

1) how do you avoid the separation of church and state (that is, you can't send kids to parochial schools on taxpayer$)
2) presumably these students would go to "great" schools that are far far away from their residence. how do you solve transportation logistics?
3) what happens when the "best" schools are out of facility/space and turn kids away? seems like they're right back to their "crappy" schools

Are those really the arguments you have against vouchers?

 

[cpwill]

The black students were subjected to neglect that white parents would not tolerate and that is what happens when schools are not integrated. It's like you were born yesterday.

So your argument is that black parents don't care about their children?

 

[cpwill]

Are those really the arguments you have against vouchers?

:shrug: if he really wants to argue "No, we should screw over poor kids rather than let them go to a catholic school", then I'm going to let him.

 

[imagep]

since it seems you are advocating for a voucher system

3 questions

1) how do you avoid the separation of church and state (that is, you can't send kids to parochial schools on taxpayer$)
2) presumably these students would go to "great" schools that are far far away from their residence. how do you solve transportation logistics?
3) what happens when the "best" schools are out of facility/space and turn kids away? seems like they're right back to their "crappy" schools

Also, what happens when great schools are flooded with poorly performing students? Would those schools even remain great?

I really don't believe that the quality of teachers varies that much, or that the methodology varies that much, between "failing" schools and "great" schools - but the family values and educational expectations of the families does vary.

I suppose that if we transferred enough students from failing schools to great schools, and vice versa, we could end up with every school being average, but I don't know that would be an improvement.

 

[Mason66]

The black students were subjected to neglect that white parents would not tolerate and that is what happens when schools are not integrated. It's like you were born yesterday.

So you are saying the black parents do tolerate it?

Why do you think that is?

 

[SlevinKelevra]

Sure I would.



I don't see any reason not to have vouchers go to to kids who attend parochial schools. Catholic schools in particular have excellent reputations. This is not a violation of the First Amendment which states that Congress shall enact no law concerning an establishment of religion.

not that I agree, but let's say I did...
what if they want to go to an Islamic themed school?

Hopefully they would go to "great" schools. I would be happy if we can get them to better schools. I would leave that to the local level or the parents.

translation: "I have no solution"

Not very spun up on the whole "supply/demand" thing? The best schools will expand, kick out satellite campuses, split into two campuses each as large as the previous one. New schools and new forms of schooling will be created.

so the new school gets 500 applicants per year through the vouchers, at $10k per voucher. ....
$5M will buy you basically one small modern building. They'd need to take out a loan of about $100M, minimum to accommodate as a satellite campus, especially in "urban" areas with high real estate costs.

 

[SlevinKelevra]

Are those really the arguments you have against vouchers?

are those really things you don't want to admit are problematic?

 

[imagep]

"Equality" is bring everyone down to the lowest common denominator.

Exactly.

I do believe that every school should be funded equally, but there is little point in trying to make the results from every school equal, because the only way we could ever do that is just to fill each school with a virtually identical ration of students from every socio/economic group.

If anything, we should be assigning students to schools based upon like abilities. So all the top performing students would go to a school which is devoted and has the staff who are best at dealing with top performing students, the same with middlin students and low performing students.

 

[iguanaman]

So you are saying the black parents do tolerate it?

Why do you think that is?

I'm saying black students often have no choice, whites move away.