First charges filed in Mueller investigation

[slick]

Mueller taps expert to investigate Trump’s pardoning power​

Also...

Robert Mueller’s Brilliant Move Against Trump’s Pardon Power

Jon Wiener: Mueller has teamed up with the attorney general of New York State, Eric Schneiderman, on their investigation into Paul Manafort and his financial transactions. What is the significance of this cooperation?

Elizabeth Holtzman: Mueller is sending a strong signal to people who are subjects or targets of the investigation into possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. The message is that the president can’t exonerate you just by a pardon, because the president’s power to pardon is limited to federal offenses. It does not cover state offenses. What Mueller is saying is, “Yes, Mr. Manafort, maybe President Trump will pardon you, but that’s not going to get you off the hook, because you can be prosecuted under state laws.”​

And I bet you thought trump had a golden "get out of jail free" card no matter the charge didn't you?

So you are quoting Elizabeth Holzman who thought she was making a career elevating performance in the Watergate hearings.
Elizabeth Holzman as liberal as they come thought she was shoe in for Senate after the hearings and was instrumental in
the unlikely event of William Buckley's brother a far right Republican winning the NY Senate race. That had to be a 100 to 1 shot.
She was never heard from again as an up & comer in NY politics. You are out on a limb listening to anything that old has been
has to say!

 

[Tangmo]

It's not the dems who are guilty. All they did was take advantage of the ****ed up American system and use it to their advantage. It's what happens when you have 53 different states and territories making up their own rules about voting....all politicians will exploit whatever they can to get and stay elected.

What do you think would be the court's reaction to a law suit to keep someone OFF a ballot would be here? Judges aren't known for pointing and laughing, but this would be a good place to look.

What kind of "democracy" is rigged to keep outsiders out?

Methinks Trump is an "outsider."

Hillary is an insider.

Obama was an outsider of a different color. McCain goes inside and outside while Romney's got his head up his bottomside.

In Canada Stephen Harper was an outsider who became Mr. Insider. Then there is the Trudeau Dynasty.

Thx for Ted Cruz btw. Youse up there identified your worst guy in Canada to ship him out to the USA to do his thingy here instead. And we took him cause he's from north of the border while his old man is from south of the wall down below. I dunno but Canada could look like a big glass house from down here. The Ice Palace.

<<snip>>.

First, I have been saying for ten years or more the American electoral system is broken. There stopped being two parties sometime during the Reagan administration. You have two gangs who, as you point out, know every nook and cranny of the system and use the rules to their own advantage; to hell with what's good for the country. Just win. No matter what.

The voters helped this process along by allowing Clinton to turn an obstruction of justice charges into a blow job joke, paving the way for a level of dishonesty never before seen; now politicians knew they could lie and get away with it IF they have the votes in congress.

That gave birth to "weapons of mass destruction", "mission accomplished", "you can keep your plan", and most recently "I have big hands".

The truth is the voters have been compromising their own principals voting in fear of "the other party" who we all know is infested with frauds and morons and will destroy the country.

I have a memory of a photograph taken as candid of Ronald Reagan and the then Senate majority leader sitting at lunch together, sharing a laugh.

I know we will never see anything like that in this administration and it makes me ask the question how are you going to make "deals" with people you hate?

Trump is frustrated because he thought he was going to be a dictator...he doesn't like to negotiate and he hates compromise, he thinks it makes one look weak. He should know it's his personality that makes him look weak

Stephen Harper an outsider?

What planet have you been on? Stephen Harper was a policy geek all his life, he had ONE private sector job in his entire life, and that was as a copy boy when he was in high school.

Harper is the epitome of Bay Street Boys and Back Room deals. The man laid the ground to drive the shaft home with both Preston Manning and then Stockwell Day. He is old guard and an American at heart.

The "outsider" in the last election was Justin Trudeau, he had never been elected to anything his only connection to the Liberal Party was his father's legacy. For the record most political scientists attribute the rebuilding of the Liberal Party to his work and his direct appeal to youth....he was attractive BECAUSE he wasn't an Ottawa geek.

Harper was a minor player as head of a small faction of the Canadian right out in the west until he hit a mother lode simply by never putting down his shovel. And no matter how youse squirm about it you do have a Trudeau Dynasty you'll hear more from besides.

So we see once again the things that happen when you start hollering into your neighbor's yard about the weeds in his garden. My point is that as go Putin and Trump so goes Canada. It is not the other way around izzit. Youse are still happily a possession of the British Crown and its governour general up there so youse might want to consider treading a bit more delicately in this. I reiterate politics is being changed by the Mueller investigation and that we'll pick up on what we'll have at the other end of this. Presently it is first things first, i.e., support and have confidence in the jurors in the grand jury room. Jurors in USA being jurors, they'll tell Mueller to buzz out anytime they might not like what he serves 'em. So far so good with more of it to be expected.

 

[Mycroft]

That's fine, because revealing that indictments are ready means the work of the grand jury is finished. The indictments will be open knowledge to everyone tomorrow when warrants are served and people get arrested and charged.

No information about the sealed indictments was revealed, only that there are indictments to be served.

This is the problem with having your talking points fed to you by a biased news source.

Your rationalization doesn't change the fact of the illegality of the action.

 

[pillars]

Your rationalization doesn't change the fact of the illegality of the action.

Trying to take your post seriously, and failing.

Continuing to repeat something that isn't factual will not--contrary to MAGA doctrine--make it true.

Thanks for sharing, though. I hope you have a good rest of the weekend.

 

[Mycroft]

So you and Robert Mueller may have different opinions about how to be a Special Prosecutor.
Alright then.

I'm still not sure what the indictment will be for.
Though the news of it certainly seems to have spooked Trumpco.

opcorn2:

For sure...he has his opinion and I have mine. However, I'm not the only one who has my opinion...just as he isn't the only one who has his.

I haven't seen any indication that the leak has "spooked Trump(co)"...whatever that is.

 

[pillars]

For sure...he has his opinion and I have mine. However, I'm not the only one who has my opinion...just as he isn't the only one who has his.

I haven't seen any indication that the leak has "spooked Trump(co)"...whatever that is.

Aside from the total meltdowns by Roger Stone and Donald Trump on Twitter this weekend, of course.

 

[Mycroft]

That's what Democrats claimed when the Whitewater investigation of Ken Starr went from that to Bill Clinton's sex life. Now you are pretty much claiming the same thing, my Democrat friend? :mrgreen:

You can't have it both ways.

shrug...

As I said...I have no opinion of the Starr thing and I don't see it as being relevant.

Try to focus on the present, eh?

 

[Mycroft]

Aside from the total meltdowns by Roger Stone and Donald Trump on Twitter this weekend, of course.

Roger Stone? Who cares about Roger Stone?

Regardless your hyperbole, I don't consider what Trump tweeted today as indicative of him being spooked. I see it more of him trolling like he usually does.

Let me give you an example of what being spooked is to me:

The news comes out about Hillary and DNC paying for that dossier.

Perez and Ellison: It wasn't us!!

DWS: It wasn't me!

Hillary: The first I heard of it was from Buzzfeed (sounds like she's channeling Obama, eh)!

Hillary's Spox: Hillary probably knew about it. (paraphrasing) It worked, didn't it?

Podesta, to Congress: I know nothing of the funding. (while the guy who handled the hiring is sitting right next to him)

Now THAT'S being spooked.

 

[Greenbeard]

The sentiment in Trumpland seems to be that we should instead be focusing on investigating the "Clinton administration." Because that's a thing.

Yikes.

 

[Praxas]

Try to focus on the present, eh?

Try to remember that the next time you guys bring up Clinton, eh?

 

[Mycroft]

Mueller taps expert to investigate Trump’s pardoning power​

Also...

Robert Mueller’s Brilliant Move Against Trump’s Pardon Power

Jon Wiener: Mueller has teamed up with the attorney general of New York State, Eric Schneiderman, on their investigation into Paul Manafort and his financial transactions. What is the significance of this cooperation?

Elizabeth Holtzman: Mueller is sending a strong signal to people who are subjects or targets of the investigation into possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. The message is that the president can’t exonerate you just by a pardon, because the president’s power to pardon is limited to federal offenses. It does not cover state offenses. What Mueller is saying is, “Yes, Mr. Manafort, maybe President Trump will pardon you, but that’s not going to get you off the hook, because you can be prosecuted under state laws.”​

And I bet you thought trump had a golden "get out of jail free" card no matter the charge didn't you?

That won't help Mueller pressure anyone. Heck, Mueller will be lucky if he gets a conviction before the end of Trump's second term. He just doesn't have enough leverage.

 

[pillars]

Roger Stone? Who cares about Roger Stone?

Regardless your hyperbole, I don't consider what Trump tweeted today as indicative of him being spooked. I see it more of him trolling like he usually does.

Let me give you an example of what being spooked is to me:

The news comes out about Hillary and DNC paying for that dossier.

Perez and Ellison: It wasn't us!!

DWS: It wasn't me!

Hillary: The first I heard of it was from Buzzfeed (sounds like she's channeling Obama, eh)!

Hillary's Spox: Hillary probably knew about it. (paraphrasing) It worked, didn't it?

Podesta, to Congress: I know nothing of the funding. (while the guy who handled the hiring is sitting right next to him)

Now THAT'S being spooked.

Your opinions are so interesting. Completely disconnected from reality, but interesting in the way that studying feral badgers in the wild is interesting.

Nonetheless, thanks for sharing them with all of us.

 

[Tangmo]

Stephen Harper an outsider?

What planet have you been on? Stephen Harper was a policy geek all his life, he had ONE private sector job in his entire life, and that was as a copy boy when he was in high school.

Harper is the epitome of Bay Street Boys and Back Room deals. The man laid the ground to drive the shaft home with both Preston Manning and then Stockwell Day. He is old guard and an American at heart.

The "outsider" in the last election was Justin Trudeau, he had never been elected to anything his only connection to the Liberal Party was his father's legacy. For the record most political scientists attribute the rebuilding of the Liberal Party to his work and his direct appeal to youth....he was attractive BECAUSE he wasn't an Ottawa geek.

The thread is about someone getting charged. We still don't know who

He wuz posting to me but I am pleased to take the assist thx. I couldn't have said it better myself. Well perhaps.... eace

The Presidents men ? Manafort was seriously tight with the Podesta group, which is why it was announced Mueller investigation extended to the Democrat lobbyist group...
https://www.google.com/amp/www.nyda...eaning-podesta-group-report-article-1.3582502

Good on Mueller.

And yes The President's Men cause there are more than a dozen of 'em to be got into the grand jury room. All turkeys start getting nervous this time of year. Tomorrow is stuffing day for the first of 'em.

 

[PLizzy]

shrug...

As I said...I have no opinion of the Starr thing and I don't see it as being relevant.

Try to focus on the present, eh?

Actually, I think you have no problem with it at all, and just don't want your double standard to be explicit.

We've said this a million times, but here it is again: prosecutions like this can morph into an animal that is different from what it originally started as. The most prominent example is the Whitewater investigation which began with Ken Starr looking into real estate ventures of the Clintons, and then looking into dozens of other scandals that were completely unrelated: Fosters suicide, Traveloffice, Filegate, and eventually the Lewinsky scandal.

Turnabout is fair play, so don't complain if the Russia probe evolves too.

 

[danarhea]

shrug...

As I said...I have no opinion of the Starr thing and I don't see it as being relevant.

Try to focus on the present, eh?

Sure, let's do that...... Until the shoe is once again on the foot of who you don't like, then we can support doing the Ken Starr thing again.....But not now. It's not relevant, and won't be relevant until it's someone I don't like. ONLY THEN will it be relevant.

Damn, I read you like a book. Your hypocrisy is so thick you can cut it with a knife. LOL.

 

[Somerville]

Surprisingly, at least to me it was a surprise, some guy by the name of Trey Gowdy is saying, "Let Mueller do his job"

Gowdy to fellow Republicans: Give Mueller a chance to do his job

Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.) said Sunday that Republicans should curb their criticisms of the investigation into Russian election meddling and give special counsel Robert Mueller "a chance to do his job."

"I would encourage my Republican friends, give the guy a chance to do his job. The result will be known by the facts, by what he uncovers," Gowdy, the chairman of the House Oversight Committee, said on "Fox News Sunday."

"The personalities involved are much less important to me than the underlying facts," he added. "So, I would say give the guy a chance to do his job."

(. . .)

But Gowdy said on Sunday that nothing in Mueller's record suggests that he is incapable of conducting the Russia investigation in a fair manner. The South Carolina Republican pointing to Mueller's record as a former FBI director and U.S. attorney as evidence that he is a "pretty apolitical guy."

Of course this came from The Hill, a well-known "Fake News" website. For what Congressman Gowdy actually said, you must read Glenn Beck's "Real News" website, The Blaze. For some reason, the stories don't seem to be related - at least according to the headlines

Trey Gowdy takes apart Mueller’s investigation and Clinton’s campaign in same fiery interview

Chairman of the House Oversight Committee Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.) dismantled FBI special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation and Hillary Clinton in the same interview on “Fox News Sunday” over the weekend.

What did Gowdy say about Mueller?

Gowdy ripped Mueller’s investigative team for breaking their oath of secrecy. On Friday, CNN reported that the investigation had yielded its first indictment. The indictment was sealed under a judge’s order, so for CNN to get knowledge of it, that meant someone broke the law.

(...)
However, Gowdy, himself a former federal prosecutor, conceded that he is in the minority of his party and believes in Mueller’s investigation.

“I would encourage my Republican friends — give the guy a chance to do his job. The result will be known by the facts, by what he uncovers. The personalities involved are much less important to me than the underlying facts. So, I would — I would say give the guy a chance to do his job,” he said.

Oh look, Gowdy did say his colleagues should give Mueller a chance to do his job.

For more, click thru to The Blaze site for a video of the interview

 

[Parrish]

Aside from the total meltdowns by Roger Stone and Donald Trump on Twitter this weekend, of course.

Now if they'd only ban 45 from Twitter.

 

[PLizzy]

Sure, let's do that...... Until the shoe is once again on the foot of who you don't like, then we can support doing the Ken Starr thing again.....But not now. It's not relevant, and won't be relevant until it's someone I don't like. ONLY THEN will it be relevant.

Damn, I read you like a book. Your hypocrisy is so thick you can cut it with a knife. LOL.

Absolutely, the ghost of Whitewater past is visiting the GOP this holiday season, and they can either deal with it, or pay in the midterms for any abuse of office by Trump that they let slide.

 

[upsideguy]

Lots of speculation abounds.

For example, this one:



If this speculation is true, it gives legs to the notion of Mueller conducting nothing more than a witch hunt. I mean, we don't need a special prosecutor to investigate crimes that have no bearing on Trump/Russian collusion. The FBI has career investigators and the DOJ has career prosecutors who could easily handle the job.

I think it's time for the DOJ to tell Mueller to wrap this investigation up.

Mueller has a pretty broad charter which includes investigating Manafort's business transactions. If you know anything about financial crimes, you know they can be extremely complex. Understanding "what happened" is a veritable maze that will include many tangents and dead ends. This will likely go well into the next year. Manafort's indebtedness to various Russian interests may well be a central tenet of collusion.

For those inquiring minds, you might like to read the actual appointment letter, included in the link below, which outlines the scope of the investigation.... it isn't just about collusion.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...nt-Robert-Mueller-Special-Counsel-Russia.html

 

[vesper]

Aside from the total meltdowns by Roger Stone and Donald Trump on Twitter this weekend, of course.

I notice that the MSM often refer to Trump using Twitter as a melt down when he tweets 3-4 posts at a time on any subject. Do you use Twitter? If you do then you realize you only have a limited amount of characters per post. When you read everything he posted in context, it wasn't a meltdown. He did not direct the message to anyone in particular as to engage another party. And what he stated was true. There are a lot of Republicans in Congress and across the country who believe this whole Russian Collusion story against Trump administration was fabricated by an unfounded Dossier that an ex British spy hired by Fusion GPS used Russian connections close to the Kremlin for his dirt and that the DNC and the Clinton campaign paid for it (12 million). And they are demanding their representatives get to the bottom of it. That's not a meltdown but the truth. Lots of stuff came out last week that if true shows the DNC and Clinton campaign were actually colluding with Russians through paying Fusion GPS for dirt on Trump who hired a foreign national (Christopher Steele) who used Russian contacts involved with the Kremlin for his information.

Stone on the other hand directed his nasty comments to particular persons in the media.

Just a suggestion but if I were you I would hold my powder dry because this whole Russian thing is about to blow up and it is going to result in the biggest perp walk we have ever seen. And many of those walking the perp are not going to be those associated with Trump.

Mueller was given a wide net to cast in this investigation.

 

[upsideguy]

To quote a guy I work with who almost gets misty eyed when he speaks of his undying love for Trump "he only takes $1 salary, and that's because he has to! He's basically working for free!!!"

Of course completely ignoring the security costs that are paid directly to his golf courses and therefore into his own pocket that have already eclipsed what his presidential salary would have been. Details, details.

Anyone that believes Trump is not taking a salary is gullible enough to have voted for Trump in the first place. Trump makes lots of "generous promises" and but consistently gets caught failing to put his money where his mouth is. Remember Trump* skipping a Republican debate to raise money for veterans, then the money never went to veterans into the WaPo called him out on it.

https://apnews.com/44c48343f6244ea58768180a94d09429/trump-detail-fundraising-veterans-charities

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...4c723a2becb_story.html?utm_term=.c7d4a2476146

'No Way' Will Trump Give $1 Million to Hurricane Harvey Relief, 'The Art of the Deal' Ghostwriter Says



That is one of many of his shallow boasts.

Trump, Who Doesn?t Have the Best Record on Giving, Hasn?t Said Where His Latest Salary Donation Is Going

Sorry, everything Trump* says must be independently verified, absent such verification we get to assume that it is not so. Thus, Trump is not working for free. Nice try, though.

 

[calamity]

Someone is going to jail tomorrow and it's not Hillary Clinton.

#MAGA

 

[Greenbeard]

Someone is going to jail tomorrow and it's not Hillary Clinton.

#MAGA

Trump right now:

 

[Anthony60]

Now if they'd only ban 45 from Twitter.

Who, Twitter, ban Trump? Trump is the best thing that ever happened to Twitter.

 

[vesper]

Someone is going to jail tomorrow and it's not Hillary Clinton.

#MAGA

Not necessarily that someone is going to jail.