Final jobs report before Election Day shows US employers added 661,000 workers in September

[Luce]

You like far too many gloom and doom liberals ignore the reality of the Covid 19 virus in that it affects people mostly over the age of 65 and with pre existing conditions, plus the reality that the infections are the story, the severity of the infection is, 2.8% death to infection rate, and millions of recoveries counted as infected but not counted as recovered due to no medical treatment.

The elderly and/or infirm are citizens as well.

 

[Conservative]

You ask so many daft questions; they're daft because you've asked them repeatedly and I've answered them.





That's quite the narrow view. So what do you think governments should do about the much more impactful aspect of globalism: outsourcing of labor?





This is just the rubbish you parrot when you have noting to actually contribute. Many industrialized nations have robust social programs without creating "massive dependence". Seriously, comments like that are silly and just ideological rants.

You do what Trump has done, provide incentive for companies to bring back labor and dollars to this country and he has done that, you totally ignored that result

U.S. Companies Brought Home More Profits From Overseas

U.S. companies brought home more profits stashed overseas in 2018, the first year after the tax-law overhaul, than initially estimated.

www.wsj.com

.

that is over a trillion dollars!!!!!!

WASHINGTON—U.S. companies brought home more foreign profits in the first year after the tax-law overhaul than the government previously estimated.

Firms repatriated $776.51 billion in profits made overseas in 2018, the Commerce Department said Thursday. The agency revised up an estimate made in March by more than $111 billion.

Newly released first-quarter data for 2019 also showed the pace of repatriations slowed to a seasonally adjusted $100.25 billion.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Governors control the operations within your state and it is governors that are preventing implementation of the economic policies in this private sector economy. You like far too many gloom and doom liberals ignore the reality of the Covid 19 virus in that it affects people mostly over the age of 65 and with pre existing conditions, plus the reality that the infections are the story, the severity of the infection is, 2.8% death to infection rate, and millions of recoveries counted as infected but not counted as recovered due to no medical treatment.

The big hole in your entire premise is people over the age of 65 don't exist in an alternate reality where they can avoid human contact. You also forget that many younger people have many of the co-morbidities which can adversely affect them despite being in an age group. The infections are the story because they cause the problems that have to be addressed. That you keep pushing that point shows this is about you pushing narratives and not facts. Throughout this pandemic, surges in cases have resulted in increased hospitalizations and deaths. This isn't "doom and gloom", but simply looking at the problems that have to be addressed.

I have no idea where the country would be today had Trump done what you wanted, probably where it is today as your governor and people like you who never believed a word from Trump would have reacted as this being a political stunt to divert from the impeachment process. Why are you ignoring the March 1 CDC report that went to your public health officials and gov't agencies? There as nothing preventing your governor from implementing those guidelines to prevent the high death totals in your state in April and May.

This is just daft. Looking at examples where leaders promoted prevention policies and there was consistent adherence by the populace, it's clear to see the difference in results. You keep repeating the nonsense that no one would believe Trump regardless, but that's because when he doesn't make sense he gets called out on it. To at this stage still repeating that no one should worry about the disease, is a level of stupidity that most people see through pretty clearly.

You also keep droning on about governors and policy while ignoring the crux of my critique, which is how Trump's rhetoric has influenced those willing to flout measures because they are inconvenienced or have ideological objection to them. The governors enact policy, but the people either follow it or not. With Trump downplaying the virus, it impacts how individuals assess the threat.

Look, you can live in the past blaming Trump for a virus that you haven't contracted simply wanting this as a political issue or you can look beyond the pandemic and see what the Biden/Harris economic policies would do to the private sector, how much it costs, and who pays for it. Apparently you have no idea where the money comes from to fund liberal social programs and who pays for those programs, nothing is free in this country contrary to what you and the left wants to believe

I don't need to look at the past; the packed rallies and his continued absurd rhetoric is all in real time. As for the rest of your commentary, your doom and gloom in that regard isn't shared by all financial experts.

 

[ElChupacabra]

You do what Trump has done, provide incentive for companies to bring back labor and dollars to this country and he has done that, you totally ignored that result

U.S. Companies Brought Home More Profits From Overseas

U.S. companies brought home more profits stashed overseas in 2018, the first year after the tax-law overhaul, than initially estimated.

www.wsj.com

.

that is over a trillion dollars!!!!!!

Repatriation of off shore funds is a positive for sure, but some context on how that was used. As for bringing back offshore manufacturing jobs, that hasn't been anything to boast about.

 

[Conservative]

The big hole in your entire premise is people over the age of 65 don't exist in an alternate reality where they can avoid human contact. You also forget that many younger people have many of the co-morbidities which can adversely affect them despite being in an age group. The infections are the story because they cause the problems that have to be addressed. That you keep pushing that point shows this is about you pushing narratives and not facts. Throughout this pandemic, surges in cases have resulted in increased hospitalizations and deaths. This isn't "doom and gloom", but simply looking at the problems that have to be addressed.



This is just daft. Looking at examples where leaders promoted prevention policies and there was consistent adherence by the populace, it's clear to see the difference in results. You keep repeating the nonsense that no one would believe Trump regardless, but that's because when he doesn't make sense he gets called out on it. To at this stage still repeating that no one should worry about the disease, is a level of stupidity that most people see through pretty clearly.

You also keep droning on about governors and policy while ignoring the crux of my critique, which is how Trump's rhetoric has influenced those willing to flout measures because they are inconvenienced or have ideological objection to them. The governors enact policy, but the people either follow it or not. With Trump downplaying the virus, it impacts how individuals assess the threat.



I don't need to look at the past; the packed rallies and his continued absurd rhetoric is all in real time. As for the rest of your commentary, your doom and gloom in that regard isn't shared by all financial experts.

look, if you do what you are supposed to do why does it matter what someone else does as it won't affect you? Trump's rhetoric influenced you?? Why haven't you contracted the virus and why are you ignoring the actual results

Repatriation of off shore funds is a positive for sure, but some context on how that was used. As for bringing back offshore manufacturing jobs, that hasn't been anything to boast about.

how it was used? how about record dividends to shareholders many of whom are seniors taking the pressure off SS? You think the repatriated funds were buried in the backyard of the corporations?

The big issue is you refuse to acknowledge the recoveries and the unreported recoveries continuing to focus on infections and not actual results including the 2.8% death to infection rate

 

[ElChupacabra]

look, if you do what you are supposed to do why does it matter what someone else does as it won't affect you? Trump's rhetoric influenced you?? Why haven't you contracted the virus and why are you ignoring the actual results

This is absurd. A highly contagious disease relies on how individuals interact as a means of spreading. I have a bit broader scope than just my own well being. I haven't ignored the "actual results"; I'm pointing them out to you but you keep deflecting.

how it was used? how about record dividends to shareholders many of whom are seniors taking the pressure off SS? You think the repatriated funds were buried in the backyard of the corporations?

Read the article. How are the dividends taking the pressure off SS; are these seniors refusing their SS checks?

The big issue is you refuse to acknowledge the recoveries and the unreported recoveries continuing to focus on infections and not actual results including the 2.8% death to infection rate

I acknowledge recoveries, they just have zero to do with mitigating the spread and deaths. So if you're putting out a fire, do you celebrate putting out the fire in one section while the fire rages elsewhere?

 

[Conservative]

The big hole in your entire premise is people over the age of 65 don't exist in an alternate reality where they can avoid human contact. You also forget that many younger people have many of the co-morbidities which can adversely affect them despite being in an age group. The infections are the story because they cause the problems that have to be addressed. That you keep pushing that point shows this is about you pushing narratives and not facts. Throughout this pandemic, surges in cases have resulted in increased hospitalizations and deaths. This isn't "doom and gloom", but simply looking at the problems that have to be addressed.



This is just daft. Looking at examples where leaders promoted prevention policies and there was consistent adherence by the populace, it's clear to see the difference in results. You keep repeating the nonsense that no one would believe Trump regardless, but that's because when he doesn't make sense he gets called out on it. To at this stage still repeating that no one should worry about the disease, is a level of stupidity that most people see through pretty clearly.

You also keep droning on about governors and policy while ignoring the crux of my critique, which is how Trump's rhetoric has influenced those willing to flout measures because they are inconvenienced or have ideological objection to them. The governors enact policy, but the people either follow it or not. With Trump downplaying the virus, it impacts how individuals assess the threat.



I don't need to look at the past; the packed rallies and his continued absurd rhetoric is all in real time. As for the rest of your commentary, your doom and gloom in that regard isn't shared by all financial experts.

The current numbers of Covid 19 infections is 8,016,448 in a country of 330,000,000 people thus 98% of the people in this country don't have the virus and those who do see death rate of 2.7% per infection. So let me ask you, if you had a 98% opportunity to take care of your family by going back to work would you take it? The cost of the shutdown is monumental and that cost is the human misery felt by the American people not able to go to work to take care of their families because of a 2% chance of getting a virus that is even reduced if you wear a mask and practice social distancing. Does that really make any sense to you?

Financial Independence | Rogue Economics

At Rogue Economics, we believe financial independence is an essential step in the path to personal freedom. Begin your journey toward personal and financial independence today.

www.rogueeconomics.com

 

[Conservative]

This is absurd. A highly contagious disease relies on how individuals interact as a means of spreading. I have a bit broader scope than just my own well being. I haven't ignored the "actual results"; I'm pointing them out to you but you keep deflecting.




Read the article. How are the dividends taking the pressure off SS; are these seniors refusing their SS checks?



I acknowledge recoveries, they just have zero to do with mitigating the spread and deaths. So if you're putting out a fire, do you celebrate putting out the fire in one section while the fire rages elsewhere?

Answer post 1082!!

Do you know what a dividend is?? it is in ADDITION to SS and the reality is it does take the pressure off SS to provide for total retirement income. 98% of the American people don't have the virus, 98%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Death rate 2.7% down from yesterday's 2.8%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[pamak]

The current numbers of Covid 19 infections is 8,016,448 in a country of 330,000,000 people thus 98% of the people in this country don't have the virus and those who do see death rate of 2.7% per infection. So let me ask you, if you had a 98% opportunity to take care of your family by going back to work would you take it? The cost of the shutdown is monumental and that cost is the human misery felt by the American people not able to go to work to take care of their families because of a 2% chance of getting a virus that is even reduced if you wear a mask and practice social distancing. Does that really make any sense to you?

Financial Independence | Rogue Economics

At Rogue Economics, we believe financial independence is an essential step in the path to personal freedom. Begin your journey toward personal and financial independence today.

www.rogueeconomics.com

Stupid queston because all other major economie show that it does not have to be a choice between feeding a family and accepting higher a risk that leads to one of the highest death rates per million of population in the developed world.

 

[ElChupacabra]

The current numbers of Covid 19 infections is 8,016,448 in a country of 330,000,000 people thus 98% of the people in this country don't have the virus and those who do see death rate of 2.7% per infection. So let me ask you, if you had a 98% opportunity to take care of your family by going back to work would you take it?

Apparently self preservation is a powerful thing because even with reopening phases, people here are still avoiding certain activities. Not because they can't do it, but because they're more measured in their exposure. The problem with this pandemic is it's exposed the clear divide in choices people face. Some have no choice but to go out and work because they cannot work remotely. Those who do, are working from home and providing for their families.

The cost of the shutdown is monumental and that cost is the human misery felt by the American people not able to go to work to take care of their families because of a 2% chance of getting a virus that is even reduced if you wear a mask and practice social distancing. Does that really make any sense to you?

Financial Independence | Rogue Economics

At Rogue Economics, we believe financial independence is an essential step in the path to personal freedom. Begin your journey toward personal and financial independence today.

www.rogueeconomics.com

It was going to be monumental even without government mandated shut downs. Had the pandemic been allowed to run rampant without restrictions, do you think it would have gone unnoticed? This is what is absolutely mind boggling about your premise. The moment people understood the pandemic was highly contagious things were going to contract, and many of the industries suffering now would have taken the hit. The question is how much worse it could have been at that initial outbreak. If you live in an urban area, your chances are going to increase because of the population density.

The irony here is you're missing the portion of office workers who aren't returning because of private sector decisions not to reopen offices. For companies in large office buildings, brining people back en masse will mean congested public transit, crowded elevators, and in person meetings in enclosed spaces. The company I work for was originally going to revisit bringing people back gradually, but now with spiking cases, that's been pushed back indefinitely.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Answer post 1082!!

Already did. Exclamation points won't accelerate anything.

Do you know what a dividend is?? it is in ADDITION to SS and the reality is it does take the pressure off SS to provide for total retirement income. 98% of the American people don't have the virus, 98%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Death rate 2.7% down from yesterday's 2.8%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes I do. I don't think you understood my point. A dividend will indeed bolster retirement income, but it does not take pressure off of the SS system since it pays out regardless of your dividends. So it's good for you, but takes no pressure off the SS system because you're still receiving the SS check. As for your death rate percentage, I love how you now think percentages are fine but weren't good enough to measure GDP growth change. That 2.7% death rate still means 222,700 deaths to most people; you know, because percentages don't mean anything right? To have the highest death rate in the world is a hard metric to ignore.

Exclamation points used like that makes anyone look childish; it does nothing for the point you're trying to make. I see them and I think of this:

 

[ElChupacabra]

When you end a lockdown before you should, you get all the drawbacks of the lockdown and none of the benefits.

New Zealand and a couple of other countries locked down hard, and they are doing pretty well right now.

Yep. If your doctor tells you to take your medicine for 2 weeks and you decide not to, then your recovery is going to take longer. One can understand cases spiking among people who have to work because they have no alternative, but the folks who flout the measures for purely ideological reasons makes no sense at all.

 

[Conservative]

Stupid queston because all other major economie show that it does not have to be a choice between feeding a family and accepting higher a risk that leads to one of the highest death rates per million of population in the developed world.

That higher risk to you is a 98% chance you WON'T get the virus, you keep selling that Socialist BS ignoring that our death rate percentage is lower than your beloved Germany!!

Looking for someone to tell you what to do and how to act?? MOVE to a country that better suits your desire to do what parents are supposed to do in this country

 

[Conservative]

Already did. Exclamation points won't accelerate anything.



Yes I do. I don't think you understood my point. A dividend will indeed bolster retirement income, but it does not take pressure off of the SS system since it pays out regardless of your dividends. So it's good for you, but takes no pressure off the SS system because you're still receiving the SS check. As for your death rate percentage, I love how you now think percentages are fine but weren't good enough to measure GDP growth change. That 2.7% death rate still means 222,700 deaths to most people; you know, because percentages don't mean anything right? To have the highest death rate in the world is a hard metric to ignore.

Exclamation points used like that makes anyone look childish; it does nothing for the point you're trying to make. I see them and I think of this:

Different kind of pressure, the pressure of daily life, of meeting daily expenses. you get it but just want to argue.

GDP percentage change? What is 2% of 18 trillion dollars vs. 2% of 21 trillion dollars? that is a lot of billions that you are ignoring thus percentage change is irrelevant and we aren't talking percentage change, we are talking real dollars, you cannot seem to grasp that reality. Highest death rate in the world? Highest recovery rate in the world, among the lowest death percentage to infections in the world. Liberalism certainly has indoctrinated you well

It is a lot easier to accept pay for people to stay home than it is to go back to work, that describes the liberal ideology

 

[Conservative]

Apparently self preservation is a powerful thing because even with reopening phases, people here are still avoiding certain activities. Not because they can't do it, but because they're more measured in their exposure. The problem with this pandemic is it's exposed the clear divide in choices people face. Some have no choice but to go out and work because they cannot work remotely. Those who do, are working from home and providing for their families.



It was going to be monumental even without government mandated shut downs. Had the pandemic been allowed to run rampant without restrictions, do you think it would have gone unnoticed? This is what is absolutely mind boggling about your premise. The moment people understood the pandemic was highly contagious things were going to contract, and many of the industries suffering now would have taken the hit. The question is how much worse it could have been at that initial outbreak. If you live in an urban area, your chances are going to increase because of the population density.

The irony here is you're missing the portion of office workers who aren't returning because of private sector decisions not to reopen offices. For companies in large office buildings, brining people back en masse will mean congested public transit, crowded elevators, and in person meetings in enclosed spaces. The company I work for was originally going to revisit bringing people back gradually, but now with spiking cases, that's been pushed back indefinitely.

You looking for 100% certainty in life, let me know when you find it where you can take care of your family without someone else providing for you. 98% of the people in this country don't have the virus and the shutdown has put your unemployment rate close to 11%.

 

[Luce]

98% of the people in this country don't have the virus

But you'll fix that, right?

 

[ElChupacabra]

Different kind of pressure, the pressure of daily life, of meeting daily expenses. you get it but just want to argue.

I'm not arguing, I'm clarifying. Your original comment made it sound like dividends would take the pressure off of the SS system paying out, which they do not. So I was clarifying so we understand the pressure is on the recipient.

GDP percentage change? What is 2% of 18 trillion dollars vs. 2% of 21 trillion dollars? that is a lot of billions that you are ignoring thus percentage change is irrelevant and we aren't talking percentage change, we are talking real dollars, you cannot seem to grasp that reality. Highest death rate in the world? Highest recovery rate in the world, among the lowest death percentage to infections in the world. Liberalism certainly has indoctrinated you well

Well, you can continue focusing on the stats which aren't the ones which have to be addressed; everyone can look at those representing the actual problem. So using your logic and applying it comparatively, the infection to death rate is 220,000+ deaths in real fatalities.

It is a lot easier to accept pay for people to stay home than it is to go back to work, that describes the liberal ideology

Nonsense. Many large corporations are in this mode and maintaining or excelling in their productivity. I am busier now than I was when I was in the office; mainly because the work paradigm shift presents its own set of issues to resolve.

 

[ElChupacabra]

You looking for 100% certainty in life, let me know when you find it where you can take care of your family without someone else providing for you. 98% of the people in this country don't have the virus and the shutdown has put your unemployment rate close to 11%.

100% certainty? Nope. Nowhere have I stated anything remotely like that. What should be the goal (as it's always been) is to flatten the curve nationally, which some regions have done better than others. It's great that 98% of the population does't have it, but when you look at the number of cases and rising hospitalizations and deaths, the volume is still high. That's what you continue to ignore in your endless effort to spin away from the obvious.

As for unemployment, that continues to drop as things start to reopen. Of course the missing factor here is whether the demand in certain industries will be high enough for small businesses to bring back all of the staff; this still varies depending the industry. Restaurant owners I know have said even with the opening of indoor dining (at reduced capacity), they're still not seeing a major surge of people coming in. The fitness industry (which our small business is in) is seeing much of the same.

 

[Conservative]

="ElChupacabra, post: 1072813538, member: 32739"]
I'm not arguing, I'm clarifying. Your original comment made it sound like dividends would take the pressure off of the SS system paying out, which they do not. So I was clarifying so we understand the pressure is on the recipient.

Paying out? NO, it takes the pressure off SS to pay for what seniors want, SS was designed to be a supplement, Dividends are also a very valuable supplement

Well, you can continue focusing on the stats which aren't the ones which have to be addressed; everyone can look at those representing the actual problem. So using your logic and applying it comparatively, the infection to death rate is 220,000+ deaths in real fatalities.

And you keep believing that it is the government's responsibility to prevent you from getting the virus, the results speak for themselves, 220,000 deaths in a country of 330.000.000 with most of those occurring with seniors with pre existing conditions and many covid 19 deaths questionable as being caused by the virus, 220,000 deaths in a country of 330.000.000 is .07%. You have never answered the question as to if you would take any risk with a 98% rate of success?

Nonsense. Many large corporations are in this mode and maintaining or excelling in their productivity. I am busier now than I was when I was in the office; mainly because the work paradigm shift presents its own set of issues to resolve.

Yes by all means show that liberal selfishness, what about those in retail that aren't working because of a shutdown? Doesn't affect you therefore doesn't exist right? What about all those people dependent on liberalism as their incentive has been destroyed? Pure liberalism where the elites like you who live in a bubble ignore the plight of those liberalism is supposed to help

 

[Conservative]

100% certainty? Nope. Nowhere have I stated anything remotely like that. What should be the goal (as it's always been) is to flatten the curve nationally, which some regions have done better than others. It's great that 98% of the population does't have it, but when you look at the number of cases and rising hospitalizations and deaths, the volume is still high. That's what you continue to ignore in your endless effort to spin away from the obvious.

As for unemployment, that continues to drop as things start to reopen. Of course the missing factor here is whether the demand in certain industries will be high enough for small businesses to bring back all of the staff; this still varies depending the industry. Restaurant owners I know have said even with the opening of indoor dining (at reduced capacity), they're still not seeing a major surge of people coming in. The fitness industry (which our small business is in) is seeing much of the same.

Looks to me like the curve that is important is flattening but still you don't get it, over 2.7 million active cases really don't have all of them active. If you are infected you are reported and become active, if you seek no medical treatment you aren't counted as recovered as there is no follow up done.

I gave you the true cost of the shutdown which you have used to blame the President and justification for voting for Biden along with other intangibles that make no sense. Had you voted for Trump in the first place you might have some credibility but anything Trump has said over the past 4 years has been discounted as he is a bombastic, arrogant, rude New Yorker who demands results not just spouting rhetoric. It appears you prefer rhetoric because you can point to no meaningful results from Biden's 47 plus years in public service totally ignoring his racist comments and actions harming Americans and his support for China and as we now can see Ukraine. Wasn't Trump impeached mostly for his supposed actions with Ukraine to investigate Biden's son? Looks like once again actual facts get in the way of your partisan opinion thus you won't buy facts, just opinions.

The American people in general have benefited from the Trump economic policies but are now being hurt by the failure of Democratic Governors to allow people to benefit from those policies by keeping their businesses closed. The nanny state is alive and well and the results are what we see everywhere that massive liberalism exists. almost 11% of your state is unemployed and not receiving any benefit from the Trump economic policies and you blame him for that?

 

[ElChupacabra]

Paying out? NO, it takes the pressure off SS to pay for what seniors want, SS was designed to be a supplement, Dividends are also a very valuable supplement

Which is exactly what I was clarifying.

And you keep believing that it is the government's responsibility to prevent you from getting the virus, the results speak for themselves, 220,000 deaths in a country of 330.000.000 with most of those occurring with seniors with pre existing conditions and many covid 19 deaths questionable as being caused by the virus, 220,000 deaths in a country of 330.000.000 is .07%. You have never answered the question as to if you would take any risk with a 98% rate of success?

No, the government cannot prevent you from getting the virus. What it can do is provide the information for people to take the appropriate action to avoid becoming infected. As I've repeated so many times already, Trump's rhetoric diverged from the recommendations of his own agencies and bucked at certain states when they tried implementing their own measures (e.g. Michigan, Virginia) and now he continues to downplay the virus. So what you are essentially doing is now parroting the same downplaying aspect by claiming that the percentages mean there's nothing to worry about. Good thing most medical experts disagree.

As for my personal risk taking, I look at more immediate risks of infection than just that general percentage. For me to go back to work involves using mass transit which is the kind of environment we know leads to high transmission rates. Being in office buildings (riding crowded elevators etc.) also presents higher risk of infection. Since it's not actually clear what the varying long term impacts are, I'm looking at more than just not dying; which is your simplistic approach. Two people I know fall under the "long haulers" category as they still haven't recovered fully almost two months after the main symptoms having disappeared.

Yes by all means show that liberal selfishness, what about those in retail that aren't working because of a shutdown? Doesn't affect you therefore doesn't exist right? What about all those people dependent on liberalism as their incentive has been destroyed? Pure liberalism where the elites like you who live in a bubble ignore the plight of those liberalism is supposed to help

How comical you talk about selfishness when almost everything you frame is in the context of how it impacts me directly. Retail is already open, and some people are shopping in brick and mortar locations, but it's been diminished because of how people are behaving. There is nothing the NJ state government is doing to prevent people from going back to that kind of shopping. The problem is not everyone is rushing back, and that's due in part to how people perceive their personal safety. I am personally affected because our family business is in one of the drastically impacted industries. For all the marketing we've done, people are just not rushing back. That you frame this purely on ideological context shows your limited ability to look at issues. None of this has anything to do with liberalism or conservatism.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Looks to me like the curve that is important is flattening but still you don't get it, over 2.7 million active cases really don't have all of them active. If you are infected you are reported and become active, if you seek no medical treatment you aren't counted as recovered as there is no follow up done.

It isn't though, as the daily cases and moralities are rising all over the place. Right now it's some midwest states experiencing large surges. Is it flatter than the initial surge, yes, but not to the point where it's under control nationwide.

I gave you the true cost of the shutdown which you have used to blame the President and justification for voting for Biden along with other intangibles that make no sense. Had you voted for Trump in the first place you might have some credibility but anything Trump has said over the past 4 years has been discounted as he is a bombastic, arrogant, rude New Yorker who demands results not just spouting rhetoric. It appears you prefer rhetoric because you can point to no meaningful results from Biden's 47 plus years in public service totally ignoring his racist comments and actions harming Americans and his support for China and as we now can see Ukraine. Wasn't Trump impeached mostly for his supposed actions with Ukraine to investigate Biden's son? Looks like once again actual facts get in the way of your partisan opinion thus you won't buy facts, just opinions.

Ah, I see. So only having voted for Trump would I have some credibility? That's an absurd comment. The credibility has to do with the statements made, and not whom I have supported or voted for in the past. You then reveal your hypocrisy by critiquing my reasons for voting for Biden as "other intangibles that make no sense" but completely ignore that you voted for someone with no experience in public policy implementation. You voted for what you expected based on his rhetoric, yet I'm wrong for doing the same? I presented a list of Biden's accomplishments but you dismiss them. You are a hyper partisan and project this on to others; that's been abundantly clear throughout our exchanges.

The American people in general have benefited from the Trump economic policies but are now being hurt by the failure of Democratic Governors to allow people to benefit from those policies by keeping their businesses closed. The nanny state is alive and well and the results are what we see everywhere that massive liberalism exists. almost 11% of your state is unemployed and not receiving any benefit from the Trump economic policies and you blame him for that?

Ah right, Democrat governors are preventing people from benefiting from those policies all on their own? So the private sector keeping their workforces remote don't count? The people who choose not to visit brick and mortar locations are being forced by their governors? NJ has continued its reopening phases with little left in the way of closed business. The same goes for other regional states. Yet somehow it's just the governors; that's simply incorrect and the polls reflect the public laying this at the feet of the president:

View attachment 67299848

People are also concerned about getting sick. You claim liberals don't care, but they're advocating for a healthcare system that covers those who don't receive healthcare through their employer. If you're in that position, the fear of getting sick has financial implications along with health:

View attachment 67299854

Source

 

[Conservative]

Which is exactly what I was clarifying.



No, the government cannot prevent you from getting the virus. What it can do is provide the information for people to take the appropriate action to avoid becoming infected. As I've repeated so many times already, Trump's rhetoric diverged from the recommendations of his own agencies and bucked at certain states when they tried implementing their own measures (e.g. Michigan, Virginia) and now he continues to downplay the virus. So what you are essentially doing is now parroting the same downplaying aspect by claiming that the percentages mean there's nothing to worry about. Good thing most medical experts disagree.

As for my personal risk taking, I look at more immediate risks of infection than just that general percentage. For me to go back to work involves using mass transit which is the kind of environment we know leads to high transmission rates. Being in office buildings (riding crowded elevators etc.) also presents higher risk of infection. Since it's not actually clear what the varying long term impacts are, I'm looking at more than just not dying; which is your simplistic approach. Two people I know fall under the "long haulers" category as they still haven't recovered fully almost two months after the main symptoms having disappeared.



How comical you talk about selfishness when almost everything you frame is in the context of how it impacts me directly. Retail is already open, and some people are shopping in brick and mortar locations, but it's been diminished because of how people are behaving. There is nothing the NJ state government is doing to prevent people from going back to that kind of shopping. The problem is not everyone is rushing back, and that's due in part to how people perceive their personal safety. I am personally affected because our family business is in one of the drastically impacted industries. For all the marketing we've done, people are just not rushing back. That you frame this purely on ideological context shows your limited ability to look at issues. None of this has anything to do with liberalism or conservatism.

You want that massive nanny state, vote for it with Biden, I prefer to make choices and to be held responsible for those choices not blaming someone else. I am not the hypocrite you radicals are, living in a bubble claiming you care about others when you do nothing about it. I don't expect you to pay for my personal responsibility issues why do you expect me to pay for yours.

Your governor didn't need the President to react to the citizens of your state, typical diversion from reality, blame, and responsibility. Since retail is open why is your state at almost 11% unemployment and mine at 6.8%

Me not looking at issues? ROFLMAO, you buy rhetoric, I buy results. 98% of the people in this country don't have the virus and you would keep the economy shutdown for that 2% that do ignoring completely the make up of that 2%. That is pure liberalism and why your ideology is such a failure

 

[Conservative]

It isn't though, as the daily cases and moralities are rising all over the place. Right now it's some midwest states experiencing large surges. Is it flatter than the initial surge, yes, but not to the point where it's under control nationwide.



Ah, I see. So only having voted for Trump would I have some credibility? That's an absurd comment. The credibility has to do with the statements made, and not whom I have supported or voted for in the past. You then reveal your hypocrisy by critiquing my reasons for voting for Biden as "other intangibles that make no sense" but completely ignore that you voted for someone with no experience in public policy implementation. You voted for what you expected based on his rhetoric, yet I'm wrong for doing the same? I presented a list of Biden's accomplishments but you dismiss them. You are a hyper partisan and project this on to others; that's been abundantly clear throughout our exchanges.



Ah right, Democrat governors are preventing people from benefiting from those policies all on their own? So the private sector keeping their workforces remote don't count? The people who choose not to visit brick and mortar locations are being forced by their governors? NJ has continued its reopening phases with little left in the way of closed business. The same goes for other regional states. Yet somehow it's just the governors; that's simply incorrect and the polls reflect the public laying this at the feet of the president:

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People are also concerned about getting sick. You claim liberals don't care, but they're advocating for a healthcare system that covers those who don't receive healthcare through their employer. If you're in that position, the fear of getting sick has financial implications along with health:

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Source

what you show is media scare tactics work for many people even when the reality is as I showed, 98% of the people, 8.0 million cases/330,000,000 million=2.4% infection rate.

How do you explain people in this country not getting healthcare and being part of the lowest death to infection percentage in the world. They aren't dying in the streets and the federal gov't is reimbursing your state for every Covid 19 expenses as they should. Financial implications on my health extend well beyond the virus, what else do you want the federal gov't to mitigate? Are you ever going to take personal responsibility for any of your actions? You don't want the virus, do what CDC requested in their March 1 memo to the states

 

[pamak]

That higher risk to you is a 98% chance you WON'T get the virus, you keep selling that Socialist BS ignoring that our death rate percentage is lower than your beloved Germany!!

Looking for someone to tell you what to do and how to act?? MOVE to a country that better suits your desire to do what parents are supposed to do in this country

That is much higher risk than the one of getting raped or killed by a thug but you do not have a problem there with the government protecting you and your family.