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Fetal homicide vs Roe Vs Wade

CivicED

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So I understand that murder and abortion are two different things. But fetal homicide contradicts Roe vs wade because it gives the fetus life if you can charge somebody with homicide for killing it even in the first trimester. So if somebody gets charged for double homicide because of this they can just fight it all the way to the supreme federal court and argue that the fetus has no constitutional rights so you can't charge me. And This would just be a Supreme Court case where they have to decide when life begins.


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calamity

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So I understand that murder and abortion are two different things. But fetal homicide contradicts Roe vs wade because it gives the fetus life if you can charge somebody with homicide for killing it even in the first trimester. So if somebody gets charged for double homicide because of this they can just fight it all the way to the supreme federal court and argue that the fetus has no constitutional rights so you can't charge me. And This would just be a Supreme Court case where they have to decide when life begins.


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Except abortion is an exclusive right of the mother. A father cannot by himself choose to abort a fetus, and neither can the stranger who causes harm to a mother such that the result is fetal homicide.

Thread fail
 

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So I understand that murder and abortion are two different things. But fetal homicide contradicts Roe vs wade because it gives the fetus life if you can charge somebody with homicide for killing it even in the first trimester. So if somebody gets charged for double homicide because of this they can just fight it all the way to the supreme federal court and argue that the fetus has no constitutional rights so you can't charge me. And This would just be a Supreme Court case where they have to decide when life begins.


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Charging them for it is a very rare occurrence, and the reason is that it is very hard to get a conviction and lower courts tend to throw out the convictions. This is an Old argument.
 

CivicED

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Except abortion is an exclusive right of the mother. A father cannot by himself choose to abort a fetus, and neither can the stranger who causes harm to a mother such that the result is fetal homicide.

Thread fail

A drunk driver hits a woman and she was pregnant and the fetus dies and the Driver can be charged with fetal homicide. And then challenge it an overturned Rovers Wade. Correct?


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CivicED

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Charging them for it is a very rare occurrence, and the reason is that it is very hard to get a conviction and lower courts tend to throw out the convictions. This is an Old argument.

I completely understand this and I can't figure out how this could not happen. If you're saying this is an old argument and it's already been decided this can happen, can you please link me the details of how this would happen. I'm trying to understand in the legislation of maybe how this couldn't happen. And are you agreeing this exact thing could happen?


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joG

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So I understand that murder and abortion are two different things. But fetal homicide contradicts Roe vs wade because it gives the fetus life if you can charge somebody with homicide for killing it even in the first trimester. So if somebody gets charged for double homicide because of this they can just fight it all the way to the supreme federal court and argue that the fetus has no constitutional rights so you can't charge me. And This would just be a Supreme Court case where they have to decide when life begins.


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It is an interesting case, isn't it? What did the American perp get? 13 years, was it? In a similar case a German man got 3 years 3 months recently.
 

CivicED

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It is an interesting case, isn't it? What did the American perp get? 13 years, was it? In a similar case a German man got 3 years 3 months recently.

And I understand on a case-by-case basis in determining if the fetus was certain months the penalty should be more severe. But that's not my point, my point is that I could challenge the courts because Rovers Wade gave the fetus no constitutional rights by the 14th amendment and therefore no birth certificate so no death certificate. And then the federal courts will have to argue when does life begin.


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joG

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And I understand on a case-by-case basis in determining if the fetus was certain months the penalty should be more severe. But that's not my point, my point is that I could challenge the courts because Rovers Wade gave the fetus no constitutional rights by the 14th amendment and therefore no birth certificate so no death certificate. And then the federal courts will have to argue when does life begin.


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I will be interested, what the pro-abortion people say.
 

SmokeAndMirrors

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So I understand that murder and abortion are two different things. But fetal homicide contradicts Roe vs wade because it gives the fetus life if you can charge somebody with homicide for killing it even in the first trimester. So if somebody gets charged for double homicide because of this they can just fight it all the way to the supreme federal court and argue that the fetus has no constitutional rights so you can't charge me. And This would just be a Supreme Court case where they have to decide when life begins.

Yes. That's the entire point of activist law firms pushing this "fetal homicide" thing: to set the stage for a Roe challenge.

It hasn't made a lot of headway, seeing as how Roe includes a number of rulings about what qualities a fetus has of a life and when, and not much has changed medically since that time (and it won't until we come up with a womb substitute -- just the limits of nature).

Personally, I think the Supreme Court's reasoning for legalizing abortion is merely a side issue, not the real reason it should be legal, which is that all people have a right to protect their bodily integrity from anything and anyone. But that's neither here nor there. Fact is, they've already ruled about the medical and Constitutional particulars of what a fetus is at various points in gestation, and stated what they are unwilling to rule on due to lack of objective criteria to judge upon.

But it's a big country, and the states get away with all kinds of stuff.
 

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I will be interested, what the pro-abortion people say.

What's to say? Abortion is legal, and a mother's choice. Assaulting the mother such that her fetus dies is not.

/thread
 

joG

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What's to say? Abortion is legal, and a mother's choice. Assaulting the mother such that her fetus dies is not.

/thread

All men are equal!
 

calamity

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All men are equal!

Really?

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calamity

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VanceMack

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As long as its the mommy butchering the child, it should be fine.
 

calamity

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calamity

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As long as its the mommy butchering the child, it should be fine.

I believe mommy literally "butchering" a fetus is still illegal. She has to go to a butcher er, abortion doctor and have the fetus removed thusly. But, I may be wrong about that.
 

VanceMack

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I believe mommy literally "butchering" a fetus is still illegal. She has to go to a butcher er, abortion doctor and have the fetus removed thusly. But, I may be wrong about that.
Well thats just wrong. There should like an age limit or something. Birth is so arbitrary. Why not make it like 6 or even 8.
 

joG

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I believe mommy literally "butchering" a fetus is still illegal. She has to go to a butcher er, abortion doctor and have the fetus removed thusly. But, I may be wrong about that.

Good question.
 

calamity

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Well thats just wrong. There should like an age limit or something. Birth is so arbitrary. Why not make it like 6 or even 8.

18 would probably work best.
 

VanceMack

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18 would probably work best.
I dont know. I think by 6 they are starting to get pretty good at foraging and fending for themselves. As long as they arent leeching off the mom and inconveniencing her it should be fine.
 

calamity

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I dont know. I think by 6 they are starting to get pretty good at foraging and fending for themselves. As long as they arent leeching off the mom and inconveniencing her it should be fine.

Yeah, but they can become a real PITA at 14.
 
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