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Female Marine drops out of infantry course

Mr Person said:
Doesn't a platoon leader have to be able to do everything the persons lead can? And isn't it rather harder to qualify for the marines than army infantry?


I'm all for allowing women to die for their country, but only on condition that they can pass all the same tests as men. That's going to be a problem, given biological differences.
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Obviously I agree. If they cant pass the test they dont get in.
 
i have no problem with women in the military in any role, provided they are qualified physically and mentally for that role. that qualification should not take gender into account, if it does take gender into account and reduces requirements for women, it will create situations where soldiers will die needlessly.
 
Rico Suave said:
I find this story a little suspicious.

1) many male marines are woefully out of shape but if you are young and reasonably fit you are going to cruise right through the program assuming you can deal with some asshole yelling at you for no good reason
2) many females at my cross fit gym are wildly more fit than you can begin to imagine.
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Not very many of any marines are out of shape, the marines take pt and weight control to the extreme, so much that most former marines in the army are there because the marines booted them out for barely failing tape or failing two pt tests in a row. The air force and the navy are the same way.

Only branche I know of that allows out of shape people is the army, and their rules do not allow them, so much as no one enforces the rules due to cutbacks of forces and personel shortages.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
Female Marine drops out of infantry course - CNNPolitics.com



I think its great. If a woman can show EXEPTIONAL leadership, and we can get men to be OKAY with it.... Then i think we can even have women platoon leaders. AND IT WOULD BE A HUGE BENIFIT. Especially if all these men really really wanted to protect these platoon leaders on an instinctual level.....
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"He added that 33 additional officers have been dropped from the course out of a starting class comprising 97 officers. The course started on July 6 and is scheduled to finish on September 20." So not everyone is made out to be a Grunt, sooner or later a woman will make through the course, then what.
 
beerftw said:
Not very many of any marines are out of shape, the marines take pt and weight control to the extreme, so much that most former marines in the army are there because the marines booted them out for barely failing tape or failing two pt tests in a row. The air force and the navy are the same way.

Only branche I know of that allows out of shape people is the army, and their rules do not allow them, so much as no one enforces the rules due to cutbacks of forces and personel shortages.
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And I am one of the Marines that got hammered for weight control. I fought it for all 20 years of my enlistment.

It got to be minimum of 12 miles a week running and prodigious dieting when weigh-ins were due.

It was always a looming threat.
 
beerftw said:
Not very many of any marines are out of shape, the marines take pt and weight control to the extreme, so much that most former marines in the army are there because the marines booted them out for barely failing tape or failing two pt tests in a row. The air force and the navy are the same way.

Only branche I know of that allows out of shape people is the army, and their rules do not allow them, so much as no one enforces the rules due to cutbacks of forces and personel shortages.
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I doubt anywhere near the majority of exMarines who are in the Army are there because they were dropped due to weight or pt problems. In fact I don't know a single one and I know a rather large amount.

While I agree that the Army hadproblems enforcing rules while both Iraq and Afghanistan were going on but you have to be joking if you think the Army has more out of shape folks then either the Air Force or the Navy. After over a decade of service I have meet way more fat airmen or sailors then Soldiers.

I also live on a camp that the vast majority of folks living here are either Marines or Navy and about a 5 minute drive from a very big Air Force base. And the members of each service here hold true to what I have seen for the rest of my career.

The good news for the Army is that with the drawdowns taking place and mandatory cuts to the Army and an easy way to cut numbers is to get rid of those overweight. There have already been a ton of Soldiers let go for either failing pt or height and weight.
 
Mr Person said:
I think something is seriously wrong with an individual who would be thinking about ****ing with bullets and explosions going on around them.
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All you have to worry about with bullets and explosions going on around you is if the person next to you can do their job. Historically..mixed units do not do well.

Marine Corps Study: All-Male Combat Units Performed Better Than Mixed Units : The Two-Way : NPR

Which means that in a combat environment, people are too busy trying to pick up slack and that can lead to more soldiers/marines dying. "unnecessary distraction or any dilution of the combat effectiveness puts the mission and lives in jeopardy. Risking the lives of a military unit in combat to provide career opportunities or accommodate the personal desires or interests of an individual, or group of individuals, is more than bad military judgment. It is morally wrong."
 
VanceMack said:
All you have to worry about with bullets and explosions going on around you is if the person next to you can do their job. Historically..mixed units do not do well.

Marine Corps Study: All-Male Combat Units Performed Better Than Mixed Units : The Two-Way : NPR

Which means that in a combat environment, people are too busy trying to pick up slack and that can lead to more soldiers/marines dying. "unnecessary distraction or any dilution of the combat effectiveness puts the mission and lives in jeopardy. Risking the lives of a military unit in combat to provide career opportunities or accommodate the personal desires or interests of an individual, or group of individuals, is more than bad military judgment. It is morally wrong."
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Come on now now of that silliness really matters. Besides I am sure the Marine Corps was simply biased when they conducted their study.

Either way it doesn't matter because what's most important is that every thing is fair. That's what's most important.
 
braindrain said:
Come on now now of that silliness really matters. Besides I am sure the Marine Corps was simply biased when they conducted their study.

Either way it doesn't matter because what's most important is that every thing is fair. That's what's most important.
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Social Justice Warriors are really invested in reshaping the military into something they think it should look like. Mind you...most of them wouldnt bother JOINING...but still.....
 
Casper said:
"He added that 33 additional officers have been dropped from the course out of a starting class comprising 97 officers. The course started on July 6 and is scheduled to finish on September 20." So not everyone is made out to be a Grunt, sooner or later a woman will make through the course, then what.
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Then she gets let in? I assume with a bit of extra monitoring and checkins to make sure the men arent bullying her and shes hiding it. Until men get used to combat women that earned their way.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
Then she gets let in? I assume with a bit of extra monitoring and checkins to make sure the men arent bullying her and shes hiding it. Until men get used to combat women that earned their way.
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Are you a marine?
 
braindrain said:
I doubt anywhere near the majority of exMarines who are in the Army are there because they were dropped due to weight or pt problems. In fact I don't know a single one and I know a rather large amount.

While I agree that the Army hadproblems enforcing rules while both Iraq and Afghanistan were going on but you have to be joking if you think the Army has more out of shape folks then either the Air Force or the Navy. After over a decade of service I have meet way more fat airmen or sailors then Soldiers.

I also live on a camp that the vast majority of folks living here are either Marines or Navy and about a 5 minute drive from a very big Air Force base. And the members of each service here hold true to what I have seen for the rest of my career.

The good news for the Army is that with the drawdowns taking place and mandatory cuts to the Army and an easy way to cut numbers is to get rid of those overweight. There have already been a ton of Soldiers let go for either failing pt or height and weight.
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I enlisted for the army in yucca valley, which was right near 29 stumps marine base. The recruiting station was always packed with marines, usually older ones near retirement who could not meet strict marine weight standards. One of the recruiters there was a former marine riding out his last few years before retirement. I am not sure now they take former military in with 15-18 years of service as a branch transfer with number reduction, but they did then.

The air force and the navy actually hold strict weight and body fat standards, most of my time in the military I had never seen a fat marine,air force or navy person who was not facing discharge or the very least weight control program. Heck my father got early retirement from the navy during clintons drawdown of forces. He had alot of health problems by the 18 year mark, and was unable to meet the weight standard. They tried everything in their power to get him booted out and luckily for him they offered early retirement that year to trim down the ranks of the higher enlisted.
 
beerftw said:
I enlisted for the army in yucca valley, which was right near 29 stumps marine base. The recruiting station was always packed with marines, usually older ones near retirement who could not meet strict marine weight standards. One of the recruiters there was a former marine riding out his last few years before retirement. I am not sure now they take former military in with 15-18 years of service as a branch transfer with number reduction, but they did then.

The air force and the navy actually hold strict weight and body fat standards, most of my time in the military I had never seen a fat marine,air force or navy person who was not facing discharge or the very least weight control program. Heck my father got early retirement from the navy during clintons drawdown of forces. He had alot of health problems by the 18 year mark, and was unable to meet the weight standard. They tried everything in their power to get him booted out and luckily for him they offered early retirement that year to trim down the ranks of the higher enlisted.
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I don't doubt that there are some Marines who get dropped for height and weight so the join the Army I just highly doubt it's a majority.


I see fat Airmen and sailors every single day so I not sure what you are talking about. My neighbor is Navy and while he is a real nice guy he is as fat as any Soldier I have ever seen. I see overweight sailors every time I go to the commissary or BX.

The CCT and PJ attached to my company are always complaining about how the non-SOF Air Force is filled with fat out of shape people. The absolute fattest military person I have ever seen was a loadmasters on a C17.

I am just not seeing these strict standards you are talking about. The only service that holds a strict standard on height and weight is the Marines.
 
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