Felons the right to vote

[H. Lee White]

It may not have been CREATED to keep blacks from voting, but given our history of racism, it LIKELY was manipulated and fine-tuned to keep blacks from voting.

Please feel free to show that this is actually the case.

 

[H. Lee White]

I
What European country are you thinking of where anyone other than the landed elite could vote in anything before 1620?

First, the 'landed gentry' quip is irrelevant to the point that disenfranchisement pre-exists European settlement (which began well before 1620)
Second, disenfranchisement of criminals traces at least as far back as clasical Greece.

In this country, that is one of the main purposes for which it has been implemented and expanded.

Please feel free to show that this is -actually- the case.

 

[Surtr]

Is it constitutional to deny felons the right to vote? Has this ever been challenged in court?

only 11 states permanently revoke the right to vote for felons, the rest are either never denied to right to vote, the others restore voting rights upon disposal of their case.

 

[MMC]

There is more prejudice against felons than any other category one wants to throw up. I once knew a guy who lost his job and his OL was in the hospital dying of Cancer. They had 5 kids and they had not eaten in 48 hrs. So he broke into a Grocery store and stole food for his kids and family. Little did he know he broke into a store that someone else broke into. Cept those that broke in hit a Safe. Which brought the Feds in due to the amount of money the store held.

Needless to say he was charged with that crime yet had no money. Was busted with a car load of food. State time and Federal Time. Lost his kids to the state. Lost his wife. Plus had to do a 10 year bit. 5 on 5 Both State and Federal. Since it was not run concurrent.

Felons usually can vote once they come off parole or probation in Illinois. Guns thats a different story.

But then if they cause felons so much heartache just to vote. What about those with mental illiness? I am talking severe mental illness. Why should they be allowed to vote if they show up?

 

[Thoreau72]

Please feel free to show that this is actually the case.

Are you familiar with the stats regarding the racial composition of US prisoners?

Are you familiar with the stats regarding the percentage of the black population ages 19-25 that is either in jail or on parole?

Anecdotal evidence perhaps, but quite relevant.

 

[H. Lee White]

Are you familiar with the stats regarding the racial composition of US prisoners?
Are you familiar with the stats regarding the percentage of the black population ages 19-25 that is either in jail or on parole?
Anecdotal evidence perhaps, but quite relevant.

Results do not necessitate intent.

 

[American]

All the amendments in the constitution regarding the right to vote don't say if you can or can't deny someone their right to vote.So no it is not unconstitutional to deny someone their right to vote if they served time behind bars. That said I believe that if you finish serving your time behind bars then you should have all your rights restored.

All those amendments specify why one cannot be denied the right to vote, and being a criminal is not one of them.

 

[H. Lee White]

All those amendments specify why one cannot be denied the right to vote, and being a criminal is not one of them.

See: Amendment V:

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

You may deprive a criminal of rights thru due process.

 

[American]

See: Amendment V:

You may deprive a criminal of rights thru due process.

A convicted felon has already had due process, or did you forget that?

 

[H. Lee White]

A convicted felon has already had due process, or did you forget that?

Yes. That's how the state can improsion him.
Because he was given due process, his right to vote - one of his liberties - can be removed as well.

 

[Thoreau72]

Results do not necessitate intent.

No, but sometimes intent might be inferred from results.

Given all the other intents--separate but equal as just one example--the results do speak loudly. Exactly what they are saying might be difficult to discern, but I guess it depends upon one's perspective, eh?

 

[H. Lee White]

No, but sometimes intent might be inferred from results.

As I said before - show the intent. All you have right now is conjecture.

 

[Thoreau72]

Conjecture and a fair knowledge of human nature.

 

[H. Lee White]

Conjecture and a fair knowledge of human nature.

Yeaaah.

Here's your position:

1: Felons cannot vote
2: Most felons are minorities
Thus:
Felons cannot vote because 'they' want to disenfranchise monorities.

:shrug:

 

[American]

Are you familiar with the stats regarding the racial composition of US prisoners?

Are you familiar with the stats regarding the percentage of the black population ages 19-25 that is either in jail or on parole?

Anecdotal evidence perhaps, but quite relevant.

What does the population have to do with what is right or wrong? It's not the country's fault if blacks are committing those crimes. Are you trying to tie voting rights to racism? FAIL

 

[Thoreau72]

Yeaaah.

Here's your position:

1: Felons cannot vote
2: Most felons are minorities
Thus:
Felons cannot vote because 'they' want to disenfranchise monorities.

:shrug:

I have already acknowledged that my position is based on conjecture. Understanding the dynamics of human nature is helpful in analysis, many times.

Or, do you think that analysis in a vacuum is better?

Perhaps you think that the legislative product, which has given us the disenfranchisement we discuss, is pure and noble, written by men without prejudice?

 

[Thoreau72]

What does the population have to do with what is right or wrong? It's not the country's fault if blacks are committing those crimes. Are you trying to tie voting rights to racism? FAIL

Population has nothing to do with what is right or wrong.

It is not the country's fault that blacks are committing those crimes, but that phenomenon IS greatly influenced by the legislative process. There is such a thing as poor law, hence the repeal mechanism. Not to go off topic, but there are unintended consequences to poor law, many times fatal consequences.

No, I'm not trying to tie voting rights to racism to contemporary events, but it is an historical fact that until the 14th Amendment and one other, blacks and women could not vote in our system.

Raising the rhetorical question, does racism or sexism exist?

 

[Chiefgator]

This brings the question of the true motive behind any criminal conviction. IMHO there are three... Rehabilitation, Punishment, and Safety of the general public.
With that said, I feel the better question would be:

At what point does the Punishment phase end?

I firmly believe that all convicted felons should be able to petition the Government to restore ALL of their rights, once their sentences have been met.

 

[Thoreau72]

This brings the question of the true motive behind any criminal conviction. IMHO there are three... Rehabilitation, Punishment, and Safety of the general public.
With that said, I feel the better question would be:

At what point does the Punishment phase end?

I firmly believe that all convicted felons should be able to petition the Government to restore ALL of their rights, once their sentences have been met.

An excellent question.

Certainly there are predators within the human population, and somehow or other they demand special treatment.

But the bulk of offenders are nonviolent. Poor laws should be repealed. Realistic sentences can be made, and prison should be reserved for the worst, not the ordinary one.

And when the sentence is served, rights should be restored, unless there are special circumstances.

 

[hikari]

Felons pay taxes then they should vote. No taxation without representation and all that.... In the same spirit of argument am still waiting for my delegate to the house to get the right to vote and to get a senator or two to represent me, so I don't have a criminal record but I still get taxed without representation, why did we even have a revolution again?

 

[tessaesque]

I don't know about constitutionality, but IMO (and IMO, only) I don't think anybody should be able to vote who is incarcerated during the voting period for any election. Once they've served their time in full (including probation/parole) they should have their full voting rights reinstated.

 

[H. Lee White]

I have already acknowledged that my position is based on conjecture.

That is, you have nothing concrete to support it. I agree. Thank you.

 

[haymarket]

Doesn't matter to me whether or not it's Constitutional; as far as I'm concerned, it's just wrong. The purpose of prison should be to reform the person, to help them reintegrate into society as a full citizen. If they're not capable of this, or we're not capable of this, or we just don't want them to be full citizens again, we should the honorable thing and put a bullet in them.

This half-citizen crap we do to our felons is cowardly and dishonorable. We dishonor them and we dishonor ourselves by tolerating it.

Agreed. All Americans of legal age and citizenship have the right to vote and it should not be denied for any reason. I would even extend that to convicted people serving in prison. They are still American citizens and part of our nation. Charles Manson should be able to vote if he so wants to do so.

 

[Thoreau72]

That is, you have nothing concrete to support it. I agree. Thank you.

And yours too, is conjecture. You're welcome.

 

[H. Lee White]

And yours too, is conjecture. You're welcome.

MY point, that you have no concrete supopoort for you position, is conjecture?
:lol: