Federal Law Enforcement Use Unmarked Vehicles To Grab Protesters Off Portland Streets

[calamity]

Protecting Federal property? (Good thing)

Those arrested damaged federal property on camera.

lol...sure they did

 

[ClaraD]

All of this is limited to immigration violations, not for federal law violations unrelated to immigration

um, no it isn't...the people being detained are US citizens, not immigrants and none of them are accused of drug trafficking or smuggling.

 

[NWRatCon]

So, let me get this right. The morons who never shut up about government overreach suddenly cheer government overreach. :doh

E-yup.. Don't try to explain inconsistency to them. It requires evaluation of two thoughts. They have enough difficulty with one.

 

[NWRatCon]

um, no it isn't...the people being detained are US citizens, not immigrants and none of them are accused of drug trafficking or smuggling.

Dang, you mean he didn't get his lie right, again? Definitely slipping. He's usually so adept at lying, repeatedly, if not consistently.

 

[NWRatCon]

Oregon Attorney General sues DHS amid reports of unlawful detainment of Portland protesters (NBC). "Ellen Rosenblum is asking for a restraining order to prevent officers with Homeland Security and other federal agencies from making any further arrests."

Oregon Attorney General Ellen Rosenblum sued the Department of Homeland Security and other agencies Friday night, alleging that federal law enforcement officers sent to Portland to suppress the Black Lives Matter protests violated the Constitution by unlawfully detaining and arresting demonstrators without probable cause.

In the lawsuit, Rosenblum asked for a restraining order to prevent agents with Homeland Security, U.S. Marshals Service, U.S. Customs and Border Protection and the Federal Protection Service from making any further arrests.

The lawsuit states that federal officers "have been using unmarked vehicles to drive around downtown Portland, detain protesters, and place them into the officers’ unmarked vehicles, removing them from public without either arresting them or stating the basis for an arrest, since at least Tuesday, July 14."

"The identity of the officers is not known, nor is their agency affiliation, according to videos and reports that the officers in question wear military fatigues with patches simply reading 'POLICE,' with no other identifying information," the lawsuit continues.

The lawsuit claims that such actions compel citizens who are "reasonably afraid of being picked up and shoved into unmarked vans — possibly by federal officers, possibly by individuals opposed to the protests" from exercising their First Amendment right to assembly.

 

[NWRatCon]

“DHS and DOJ are engaged in acts that are horrific and outrageous in our constitutional democratic republic,” Sen. Jeff Merkley, D-Ore., said in a statement Friday.

"First, they are deploying paramilitary forces with no identification indicating who they are or who they work for. Second, these agents are snatching people off the street with no underlying justification. Both of these acts are profound offenses against Americans," Merkley continued, demanding that the officers be removed.

 

[calamity]

All of this is limited to immigration violations, not for federal law violations unrelated to immigration

Uh....no.

Maybe you should study a topic before saying something stupid about it like you did above.

 

[weaver2]

“DHS and DOJ are engaged in acts that are horrific and outrageous in our constitutional democratic republic,” Sen. Jeff Merkley, D-Ore., said in a statement Friday.

"First, they are deploying paramilitary forces with no identification indicating who they are or who they work for. Second, these agents are snatching people off the street with no underlying justification. Both of these acts are profound offenses against Americans," Merkley continued, demanding that the officers be removed.

The fact that nobody at the administrative levels of these organizations recognized that what they were being asked to do was unconstitutional and obeyed an illegal order is truly scary.

 

[Variant]

It will be hard to pin it on anyone, these feds don't were badges or show the agency they are with. It might be like seeing a ghost.....

Unless one of them comes forward and blows the whistle.

If they aren't identified and they are kidnapping people they should be arrested.

If someone tries to kidnap you I think shooting them in the face is a justified response.

 

[coyotedelmar]

It is true...says my brother who is a police officer and looking over my shoulder as I post this.

Your brother is wrong, Miranda warning only has to be given if they are being interrogated (there is rules to what counts as that, but basically if you can't leave and it's not a traffic stop), and even then that's only if they want the evidence to be usable in court.

Miranda v. Arizona is the foundational opinion that sets base-line rules governing confessions both in the federal as well as state courts. The general rule prescribed by Miranda is that when a suspect is in custody being interrogated by police, he must be provided Miranda warnings for any subsequent confession to be admissible. After those warnings are given, it must then be determined whether the suspect voluntarily, knowingly, and intelligently agreed to speak with law
enforcement.

https://digitalcommons.pace.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1914&context=plr (PDF, and very very long)

 

[NWRatCon]

Your brother is wrong, Miranda warning only has to be given if they are being interrogated (there is rules to what counts as that, but basically if you can't leave and it's not a traffic stop), and even then that's only if they want the evidence to be usable in court.


https://digitalcommons.pace.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1914&context=plr (PDF, and very very long)

In this case, you're both right, to an extent. Coyote is technically correct about the application of Miranda, but Clara D's brother is right that officers are trained to give Miranda warnings at the earliest applicable point to preserve statements. Most subjects expect it, and will readily waive their rights to get a chance to "tell their story".

 

[Mr. Invisible]

That's a bit much. If he wasn't being violent or anything, then he shouldn't be nabbed. Plus you can't just black bag folk, throw them in jail, without declaring who you are or reading them their rights. It seems that Trump wants to escalate the tension and the violence. I don't think Washington has done a great job of things, but it's their State and they need to figure it out. This only seems to be throwing rocks at a wasp nest.

So the 2012 NDAA, which is still on the books, does allow for the government to black grab people and indefinitely detain them without charges, at least regarding military detentions. (Indefinite Detention, Endless Worldwide War and the 2012 National Defense Authorization Act | American Civil Liberties Union)

This could be something similar.

 

[NWRatCon]

The fact that nobody at the administrative levels of these organizations recognized that what they were being asked to do was unconstitutional and obeyed an illegal order is truly scary.

I agree. Here's the problem: Who at DHS, or Justice a) has law enforcement experience, or b) has been vetted for their position. Everyone at DHS is "acting", and something like half of the leadership team is "vacant". As far as I know without deeply researching it, only Mark Morgan at CPB (acting) has a law enforcement background (FBI). They're not acting like they have it, either.

CJCS General Milley has raised concern about police dressing in camouflage. Milley: We need a clear distinction between police and military (Roll Call).

The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff on Thursday stressed the importance of a "visual distinction" between members of the police and the military, an issue that has surfaced anew during recent protests.

“You want a clear definition between that which is military, and that which is police in my view,” Gen. Mark Milley told the House Armed Services Committee.

He referred to camouflage uniforms giving local and state police officers the appearance of military.

“When you start introducing the military you’re talking about a different level of effort there,” continued Milley.

I think Trump and his minions are deliberately blurring the line as an intimidation tactic (and because they want to "act tough"). None of them have enough experience to appreciate the problem,
or the implication.

 

[calamity]

American Nazis in action

video

That dude was like, "**** you Nazis and your ***** supporters."


MAGA

 

[calamity]

I agree. Here's the problem: Who at DHS, or Justice a) has law enforcement experience, or b) has been vetted for their position. Everyone at DHS is "acting", and something like half of the leadership team is "vacant". As far as I know without deeply researching it, only Mark Morgan at CPB (acting) has a law enforcement background (FBI). They're not acting like they have it, either.

CJCS General Milley has raised concern about police dressing in camouflage. Milley: We need a clear distinction between police and military (Roll Call).I think Trump and his minions are deliberately blurring the line as an intimidation tactic (and because they want to "act tough"). None of them have enough experience to appreciate the problem,
or the implication.

Trump, his minions and his supporters are the enemy of the people. Nazis always are.

 

[ClaraD]

If they aren't identified and they are kidnapping people they should be arrested.

If someone tries to kidnap you I think shooting them in the face is a justified response.

exactly, except they do have police written on their fatigues...but no other identifying logos...no name tag, no badge, nothing. In other countries people are kidnapped and killed by fake police in this fashion..in fact, it is a technique used by cartel to kidnap people in broad daylight. it is also a technique used by police in countries like Honduras to kidnap and torture people they want to get rid of....we call them esquadrones de la muerte....death squads.

 

[NWRatCon]

exactly, except they do have police written on their fatigues...but no other identifying logos...no name tag, no badge, nothing. In other countries people are kidnapped and killed by fake police in this fashion..in fact, it is a technique used by cartel to kidnap people in broad daylight. it is also a technique used by police in countries like Honduras to kidnap and torture people they want to get rid of....we call them esquadrones de la muerte....death squads.

Don't give these thugs any ideas...

 

[NWRatCon]

In military operations, a "lawful combatant" is "a member of a militia or other volunteer corps of a party to a military conflict that is i) commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates, ii) has a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance, iii) carries arms openly, and iv) conducts operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war" - I think that is what they are trying to portray in Portland (and elsewhere), but, note - they are not complying with the rules (ii), (iv). That makes them, in the words of George Bush "unlawful combatants". Hmmm.

[addendum: I forgot to mention, Ken Cuccinelli isn't even serving legally: Judge Says Ken Cuccinelli Was Appointed Unlawfully To Top Immigration Post (npr)]

 

[eman623]

If the feds see anyone on the streets of Portland wearing all black, a helmet, boots and a mask and carrying a stick or other weapons, I would HOPE they would take him off the streets. That person is not out for an evening stroll at 1 AM.

 

[NWRatCon]

If the feds see anyone on the streets of Portland wearing all black, a helmet, boots and a mask and carrying a stick or other weapons, I would HOPE they would take him off the streets. That person is not out for an evening stroll at 1 AM.

It's kinda like walking while black, huh?

 

[eman623]

It's kinda like walking while black, huh?

Not like that at all.

You don't get to choose your race. You do get to choose whether to put on Antifa garb and go out with weapons to commit mayhem at 1 AM.

 

[BlueTex]

If the feds see anyone on the streets of Portland wearing all black, a helmet, boots and a mask and carrying a stick or other weapons, I would HOPE they would take him off the streets. That person is not out for an evening stroll at 1 AM.

How well, in your experience, will that hold up in court as probable cause?

 

[braindrain]

The arrests were not on federal land.

You think federal LE can only arrest people on federal land.

Try telling that to the FBI.

 

[BlueTex]

You think federal LE can only arrest people on federal land.

Try telling that to the FBI.

They are about to get the opportunity to explain to a federal judge in multiple lawsuits what crimes the are arresting for and try to convince a federal judge not to issue an immediate restraining order.

 

[eman623]

How well, in your experience, will that hold up in court as probable cause?

Who said anything about court? I just want that Antifa scum off the street for the night.