Federal judge blocks mandates for healthcare workers

[eohrnberger]

For me…that’s what this comes down to.


Executive orders that usurp the powers of the legislative branch of government.


No executive office holder in ANY form of government in the entirety of the United States should have the power to issue broad executive orders without them being codified as a law by the legislative branch of government.

Emergency powers should ONLY exist, and emergency orders should ONLY exist for a very finite period of time without legislative action.

No executive official should be able to make ANY broad reaching mandate for American citizens that lasts more than 30 days without approval of and legislation passed by the legislative branch of government.


We have 3 branches of government for a reason.

Congress has figured out that they don't have to do their jobs, and if the situation eventually get's bad enough the executive branch will be compelled to do something, and they can't get blamed for anything. Examples the Southern Border crisis.

Congress needs to get off their collective fat asses and actually do their job, the one they were sworn to do when they took the oath of office, the job they were elected to do.

 

[Relsdm]

OSHA was passed by Congress to protect the health and safety of American workers. Mandating vaccines when required is most certainly part of that protection. Had the insurrection party not made covid a political football all the States would have taken care of mandating the vaccine as they all have in past epidemics and the OSHA mandate would not have been required. Someone has to be the adult in the room and take action to protect this country from further bloodshed from a preventable disease.

Now Biden is the adult?
The same President elect who said he would NOT impose mandates?
The same President that just said today he does not intend to expand the current mandate?
Either mandates are a good thing or they are not. If you want to support a mandate then you should be up in arms about Biden saying it was not going to be expanded.

 

[Relsdm]

Human beings are not parasites and a woman can make the choice to remove the clump of cells from her body. You have no right to stop her either. Maybe you should start caring about living breathing human beings instead of being obsessed with something you have no control over.

But you are wanting to take control over what someone does with their body. You argue for hands off when when it fits your narrative but not when it does not.
Maybe you should start caring about all life.
Parasite definition - an organism that lives in or on an organism of another species (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the other's expense.

Since when is a fetus a different species than its mother?

 

[iguanaman]

But you are wanting to take control over what someone does with their body. You argue for hands off when when it fits your narrative but not when it does not.
Maybe you should start caring about all life.
Parasite definition - an organism that lives in or on an organism of another species (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the other's expense.

Since when is a fetus a different species than its mother?

It is a part of the mother and she can make the choice whether to nourish and care for it or let it go. Women have been doing that since the beginning of time and they will not stop it now. There are more abortions in countries were it is illegal than where it is not.

 

[Relsdm]

It is a part of the mother and she can make the choice whether to nourish and care for it or let it go. Women have been doing that since the beginning of time and they will not stop it now. There are more abortions in countries were it is illegal than where it is not.

You brought up the whole idea of caring about life. My point was to be consistent. Don't pick and choose where you believe life matters.
I believe that all life matters.
Do you disagree that there have been some deaths related to covid vaccinations? Did those lives not matter?
Getting the vaccine should be a personal choice of what risk someone is willing to accept.

 

[Atomic Kid]

For me…that’s what this comes down to.


Executive orders that usurp the powers of the legislative branch of government.


No executive office holder in ANY form of government in the entirety of the United States should have the power to issue broad executive orders without them being codified as a law by the legislative branch of government.

Guess you must have been asleep throughout the entirety of Trump's Presidency then.

Emergency powers should ONLY exist, and emergency orders should ONLY exist for a very finite period of time without legislative action.

There are emergency powers on the books now that have been there for decades.

No executive official should be able to make ANY broad reaching mandate for American citizens that lasts more than 30 days without approval of and legislation passed by the legislative branch of government.

This is not a "broad reaching" mandate. It's limited to health institutions that are Medicaid and Medicare program participants. Which is administered by the federal government. So the executive branch of the federal government does have a say in those funds are to be administered.

We have 3 branches of government for a reason.

Try explaining that to Trump. As far as he was concerned there was only one that mattered. I'll leave it to you to guess which one.

 

[screenwriter]

It is a part of the mother and she can make the choice whether to nourish and care for it or let it go. Women have been doing that since the beginning of time and they will not stop it now. There are more abortions in countries were it is illegal than where it is not.

By all means - let's do progress all the way back to Neanderthals. Such a lofty goal.

 

[Hamish Howl]

By all means - let's do progress all the way back to Neanderthals. Such a lofty goal.

Neanderthals practiced abortion? Huh. Learn something new every day.

 

[Nickyjo]

For me…that’s what this comes down to.


Executive orders that usurp the powers of the legislative branch of government.


No executive office holder in ANY form of government in the entirety of the United States should have the power to issue broad executive orders without them being codified as a law by the legislative branch of government.

Emergency powers should ONLY exist, and emergency orders should ONLY exist for a very finite period of time without legislative action.

No executive official should be able to make ANY broad reaching mandate for American citizens that lasts more than 30 days without approval of and legislation passed by the legislative branch of government.


We have 3 branches of government for a reason.

COVID qualifies as an emergency. I just spent four days in a hospital. Happier that those health care workers who helped me were vaccinated.

 

[Schism]

It's sort of ironic that he feels freedom is protected through legislative act when the legislature passed the Patriot Act. Is that crisis still going on?

Didn't Obama end that on Day One? Day Two?

Oh that's right, he signed off on it too, and never closed GITMO either.

 

[OpportunityCost]

OSHA was passed by Congress to protect the health and safety of American workers. Mandating vaccines when required is most certainly part of that protection. Had the insurrection party not made covid a political football all the States would have taken care of mandating the vaccine as they all have in past epidemics and the OSHA mandate would not have been required. Someone has to be the adult in the room and take action to protect this country from further bloodshed from a preventable disease.

There is no precedent for healthcare decisions being mandated by OSHA on employees. The proper course is with law, or through an agency that deals with health like NHS. Forcing it through OSHA puts the livelihoods of upwards of 75million Americans in the hands of an unelected bureaucrat. OSHA was never meant to wield that sort of power. Their job is to enforce existing legislation on workplace safety. Please, point to a law regarding this specific virus in the last (approaching) 2 years. Virus mandates for vaccinations are not handled through OSHA and you know this as a fact.

 

[roguenuke]

That is 100% your choice. I have not heard of anyone pushing for a mandate for the flu shot. The flu kills people as well.

Military is mandated to get the flu shot every year. I know because that is the only reason I got the flu shot the 20 years I was in the service. The year after I retired, Covid hit, and so I got the flu shot last year and this year too (and likely will from now on).

But in fact 4 states have laws that mandate flu shots for all healthcare workers. In fact, Alabama is one of them. But individual healthcare providers are also allowed to mandate flu vaccines for their employees as well.

State Immunization Laws for Healthcare Workers and Patients | CDC

State Immunization Laws for Healthcare Workers and Patients

www2a.cdc.gov

 

[roguenuke]

Yep We have not mandated smallpox vaccinations for 150 years.

Yes, there have been smallpox vaccinations mandated within that time frame. I had to get a smallpox vaccination in 2003 in fact. If I refused, I would have been kicked out of the Navy.

 

[roguenuke]

Ok, so lets use your logic.
How many deaths occur each year due to drunk driving? You all for for going back to prohibition?
How many deaths occur each year due to cigarette use? You support making smoking illegal?
How many deaths occur due to obesity? You ready to mandate that everyone must reach a certain BMI?
How many deaths occur due to automobile accidents? You ready to limit the amount of driving or number of cars?

See how this goes. Yes, I know these are some extreme examples but just how many deaths are you willing to tolerate? And remember you are not just making that choice for yourself.

Drunk driving is illegal, so therefore there is a mandate against driving drunk.

There are laws against smoking where it puts others in danger in many/most states.

There are laws in place to mitigate automobile deaths, including speed limits and seatbelt laws. We do limit driving (that is what a driver's license does).

 

[roguenuke]

You want people to die of heart attacks? Takes a special kind of heartless monster to want that.

You cannot catch a heart attack. Heart attacks are not contagious.

 

[Greenbeard]

That is 100% your choice. I have not heard of anyone pushing for a mandate for the flu shot. The flu kills people as well.

Many health care settings mandate flu shots for their employees and have done so for years,

 

[roguenuke]

There is no precedent for healthcare decisions being mandated by OSHA on employees. The proper course is with law, or through an agency that deals with health like NHS. Forcing it through OSHA puts the livelihoods of upwards of 75million Americans in the hands of an unelected bureaucrat. OSHA was never meant to wield that sort of power. Their job is to enforce existing legislation on workplace safety. Please, point to a law regarding this specific virus in the last (approaching) 2 years. Virus mandates for vaccinations are not handled through OSHA and you know this as a fact.

Precedents are started by things that weren't precedent before.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Precedents are started by things that weren't precedent before.

Judging by the rulings coming down this won't be one.

 

[jpevans]

Covid, war…pick the topic.


I do not and will not stand on the side of executive orders, at any level of government…that usurp the legislative branch of government.

The executive branch of United States government has never been intended to be able to “rule”. It exists to execute the laws passed by the legislative branch…not create new ones.

Emergency powers are not meant to exist for years.

Emergencies aren't meant to last for years. I understand the point you're making, but this is an ongoing pandemic, killing in the vicinity of 1,000 human persons per day in the U.S. of A., with a dysfunctional Congress who require a 60% vote in the Senate, as the R's, idjits that they are are supporters of the pandemic. Meanwhile the medical system of the U.S. is pushed to it's limit.
I would love to see the Congress handle it, but we're indulging in fantasy, as you are talking about a body of elected mopes who are holding the countries duty to pay the money we've already spent hostage, A body with lower approval then gonorrhea. Half the Congress is partly responsible for the pandemic's lasting so long. IMO

 

[roguenuke]

Judging by the rulings coming down this won't be one.

Those rulings have been mixed, and generally the ones that are blocking the mandates are from conservative judges. Politics involved.

The healthcare complaints one doesn't make any sense either, since there are 4 states and multiple healthcare employers who mandate the flu vaccine, so there is no reason that the Covid vaccine cannot also be mandated there. "Staffing may be affected" is a ridiculous claim since staffing is most certainly affected when people are dying or out sick.

 

[BlueTex]

I believe in the freedom to make choices. I chose to get vaccinated but I do not believe in forcing others to be if they do not wish to be.

Do you believe employees who die or become disable because an employer does not take adequate precautions is liable for any harm caused by their inadequate protections?

 

[OpportunityCost]

Those rulings have been mixed, and generally the ones that are blocking the mandates are from conservative judges. Politics involved.

Nah, the flaws in the mandate are many: the agency ordering it, the time already passed with the virus around, the time to write the order. None of them scream emergency, they scream politics being involved.

 

[roguenuke]

Nah, the flaws in the mandate are many: the agency ordering it, the time already passed with the virus around, the time to write the order. None of them scream emergency, they scream politics being involved.

No, they aren't. One of those blocked was for healthcare employees, and there is a huge problem with the logic in blocking that one when many of those same employees are under other vaccine mandates. 4 states have flu vaccine mandates for healthcare employees.

 

[Hatuey]

Lol, the covid is endemic all over the Earth crowd is happy that a Trump judge voted to restrict the Biden administration. Hilarious.

 

[jpevans]

There is a world of difference between allowing the executive branch to make emergency decisions in the short term and allowing the executive branch to issue edicts for years…

The President takes an oath to protect the people of this country from all enemies, foreign & domestic. The mandate is designed to protect the people from dying from a disease that is controllable by a vaccine. The mandate doesn't require getting the vaccine, it requires federal workers & civilian employers to either get the jab, or weekly testing. It is rather weak, considering the insidious nature of the pandemic. The country is now a far cry from the spirit & focus of the citizens during WWII pulling together for the common good.