Federal court rules students’ pro-gun shirts are protected by First Amendment

[Emily L]

This is an excellent point for a teachable moment. Well sally, you have a unicorn on your shirt, does that mean you ride one to school?

We shouldn't judge people by their appearances.



Teacher (to parent): "Jackie is a good student, but other children don't want to be around him. They say they are afraid of those shirts he wears."
Parent: "Well, we appreciate your concern, but we're teaching Jackie about his Constitutional rights, and the court says he can wear those shirts."
Teacher: "I know, but I'm just telling you why the children keep away from him. You need to decide which is more important to him at this time in his life."

I would say the teacher shouldn't placate these prejudices part of going to school is learning to socialize with people who are different than you.

It's like bringing in Mr. And Mrs. Alfuad and explaining to them that little Jazzia wearing her hijab makes other students dislike her.
I would say being nervous about the clothing of others is probably something they should learn to deal with and get over. I had to learn to accept the were all sorts of different people in school and I'm a better person for it I think.
[/QUOTE]

Again, you're making some good points. I guess I was projecting myself onto those children. One of these days, I'll realize that children are a lot smarter than I was when I was their age. Heck, they're probably a lot smarter than I am right now!

 

[CLAX1911]

Again, you're making some good points. I guess I was projecting myself onto those children. One of these days, I'll realize that children are a lot smarter than I was when I was their age. Heck, they're probably a lot smarter than I am right now!

I've worked with children in the passed, and it always amazed me how much they taught me.

I'm glad you made your points. It's important to listen to and try and understand each other.

 

[Chillfolks]

I'm on the fence about uniforms. I see the benefits but I see some drawbacks. I would support a stricter dress code.

What are some of the drawbacks you perceive from school uniforms.

 

[CLAX1911]

What are some of the drawbacks you perceive from school uniforms.

Having to wear uncomfortable unpleasant clothing. Having to buy specific clothing you'll never wear at any other time. Not being able to find uniforms that fit properly.

 

[Chillfolks]

Having to wear uncomfortable unpleasant clothing.

It's been my experience that people often choose to wear uncomfortable unpleasant clothing in the name of fashion. Also the uniforms dont have to be uncomfortable.

Having to buy specific clothing you'll never wear at any other time.

Important lofe lesson. Sometimes you have to do things you don't want. In adulthood theae kids may need to purchase work specific clothing.

Not being able to find uniforms that fit properly.

I have a gard time believing someone can find plenty of properly fitting clothing until it comes time for a uniform.
To me the positives outweigh the negatives

 

[CLAX1911]

It's been my experience that people often choose to wear uncomfortable unpleasant clothing in the name of fashion. Also the uniforms dont have to be uncomfortable.

I had to wear them, and I never could get any that fit. True they don't have to be uncomfortable but you don't get to make that call. You get whatever they feel like it's minimally survivable for you. They don't care, they don't have to. They have your business regardless. I suppose your could move to a different school district.

Important lofe lesson. Sometimes you have to do things you don't want.

Learned that lesson by having to attend public school. Making it more unpleasant just for the sake of it isn't useful.

In adulthood theae kids may need to purchase work specific clothing.

Generally speaking outside of being a police officer or serving in the military you aren't going to have much of a uniform. Having to wear appropriate clothing for work seems more along the lines of having a dress code rather than a uniform.

I have a gard time believing someone can find plenty of properly fitting clothing until it comes time for a uniform.

in the five years I was in a school with a uniform I never had pants that were long enough or a shirt that was long enough. They didn't make any.

I can find well fitting clothing in stores other than the school uniform store because other stores carried a bigger verity of clothing because such stores are in competition with other stores.

A school store has no competitors so they don't have to do anything to keep customers.

To me the positives outweigh the negatives

You probably didn't have trouble finding uniforms that fit. You are fortunate. Most people don't understand. I've been in many arguments with people about the availability of clothing that fits me. Most recently regarding steel toe boots.

 

[Phys251]

"Common"? In 2019, in 130,000 K-12 schools meeting 180 days a year, giving 23.4 million opportunities, there were less than thirty shootings involving students or staff during school hours.

If 2020 has proven anything to us, it's that right-wingers do not believe that all lives matter.

 

[TurtleDude]

Federal court rules students’ pro-gun shirts are protected by First Amendment | The College Fix

School officials claimed they ‘fail[ed] to convey a particularized message.’ Judge didn’t buy it.

www.thecollegefix.com

From the ruling itself:



Another win for free speech and another loss for progressivism.

the school administrators should be held personally liable for the student's costs and legal fees along with being subjected to punitive damages for a clear constitutional tort.

 

[Phys251]

It's not guns it:s tee shirts.

This is a free speech issue, not a gun liberties issue. Nobody would lose their gun liberties if these shirts were forbidden in a school.

 

[TurtleDude]

I don't mind free expression. But let's not forget that pre-coronavirus, school shootings were common. Not everyone believes that guns and schools mix.

advocating second amendment rights has nothing to do with school shootings. Advocating free speech is not the same as advocating say kiddie porn either. its time to crush schools that suppress free speech.

 

[TurtleDude]

This is a free speech issue, not a gun liberties issue. Nobody would lose their gun liberties if these shirts were forbidden.

true, they would lose their first amendment rights. a constitutional tort in violation of 42 USC 1983.

 

[Phys251]

advocating second amendment rights has nothing to do with school shootings. Advocating free speech is not the same as advocating say kiddie porn either. its time to crush schools that suppress free speech.

I figured you hated public education. I never knew how badly you did until now.

 

[Lovebug]

Federal court rules students’ pro-gun shirts are protected by First Amendment | The College Fix

School officials claimed they ‘fail[ed] to convey a particularized message.’ Judge didn’t buy it.

www.thecollegefix.com

From the ruling itself:



Another win for free speech and another loss for progressivism.

We also have not objection to

or

 

[TurtleDude]

I figured you hated public education. I never knew how badly you did until now.

that's a non-sequitur. I am a bill of rights absolutist. School administrators are agents of the state and thus under 42 USC 1983. Suppressing free speech is anathema to our society even though liberals often try to do it.

 

[Phys251]

that's a non-sequitur. I am a bill of rights absolutist. School administrators are agents of the state and thus under 42 USC 1983. Suppressing free speech is anathema to our society even though liberals often try to do it.

Too late. You outed yourself. You hate public education and want to use your personal interpretation of freeze peach as an excuse to crush it.

 

[CLAX1911]

This is a free speech issue, not a gun liberties issue. Nobody would lose their gun liberties if these shirts were forbidden in a school.

Right they would lose their first amendment rights. It's a free speech issue. I agree.

 

[TurtleDude]

We also have not objection to

or

I think some school have suppressed "straight pride" shirts. Yale got thrashed a couple decades ago when a student named (seriously) Wayne Dick, lampooned GLAD (Gay and Lesbian Awareness Day) with BAD (Bestiality Awareness Day) that had a picture of a guy hugging a sheep. He was subjected to discipline William F Buckley and C Van Woodward (who wrote the free speech code for Yale) defended Dick who won and gave Yale a schooling on free speech

 

[TurtleDude]

Too late. You outed yourself. You hate public education and want to use your personal interpretation of freeze peach as an excuse to crush it.

you continually prove that your posts ooze mendacity and are incredibly weak when it comes to analytical content

 

[CLAX1911]

We also have not objection to

or

No objection to either.

 

[Lovebug]

I think some school have suppressed "straight pride" shirts. Yale got thrashed a couple decades ago when a student named (seriously) Wayne Dick, lampooned GLAD (Gay and Lesbian Awareness Day) with BAD (Bestiality Awareness Day) that had a picture of a guy hugging a sheep. He was subjected to discipline William F Buckley and C Van Woodward (who wrote the free speech code for Yale) defended Dick who won and gave Yale a schooling on free speech

Freedom of speech is a good thing, provocation is not.

 

[Phys251]

you continually prove that your posts ooze mendacity and are incredibly weak when it comes to analytical content

Straight for the juvenile insults! Keep 'em coming, I'm sure you've got more!

 

[CLAX1911]

I think some school have suppressed "straight pride" shirts. Yale got thrashed a couple decades ago when a student named (seriously) Wayne Dick, lampooned GLAD (Gay and Lesbian Awareness Day) with BAD (Bestiality Awareness Day) that had a picture of a guy hugging a sheep. He was subjected to discipline William F Buckley and C Van Woodward (who wrote the free speech code for Yale) defended Dick who won and gave Yale a schooling on free speech

If gay pride is acceptable so is straight pride. Sauce for the goose as they say.

 

[CLAX1911]

Freedom of speech is a good thing, provocation is not.

So freedom of speech is bad when it provokes you? Why?

 

[aociswundumho]

I don't know about that, Aoc. I mean, I'm a conservative, but I feel they should make a special case for schools and not allow such shirts there. Children are so impressionable and they might misinterpret what the shirt implies. Considering our sad history of schools and guns, it almost looks like it might be asking for trouble, regardless of the harmless intentions.

The thing is Emily, school shootings are extremely rare, and while every such death is a tragedy, in the big scheme of things, the number of people killed in schools shootings is extremely tiny. For some perspective, I like to post this tweet by the astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson, which he tweeted after the worst school shooting in US history:



2020 is almost over, and for the entire year, 7 people have been killed in school shootings.

 

[TurtleDude]

If gay pride is acceptable so is straight pride. Sauce for the goose as they say.

same with white pride vs black pride, or Christian Pride vs Islamic Pride. sadly some schools suppress white, or straight or Christian expression while allowing gay, Muslim or black expressions