1Perry
Banned
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- Jun 26, 2011
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Again, sheesh, those racist New Yorkers. When do you suppose they will get past it?
insinuating that the judge thinks blacks & Hispanics are simply dumb, is a pretty stupid thing to say.
he believes that a de-facto & gentlemen's agreemant system is in place that discriminates against them, in favor of white applicants.
its not my argument.
Historically, the fire departments of NY have been a source of systemic racial discrimination. In the mid 1850s, the Irish essentially used it as a political tool. Since then, it's been a pretty useful tool for many other white ethnicities - the Polish, Croats, etc. This isn't really all that surprising. It's no different than how police departments in the South/West were used to keep control over blacks and Hispanics during the 40s-50s and 60s.
We'll when you get one, be sure to let me know.
Care to support these statements?
After the early example of Charles Lynch, Irish immigrants quickly found employment in the police departments, fire departments and other public services of major cities, largely in the North East and around the Great Lakes. By 1855, according to New York Police Commissioner George W. Matsell, himself an Englishman having been born in Liverpool, England in 1806, almost 17 percent of the police department's officers were Irish-born (compared to 28.2 percent of the city) in a report to the Board of Alderman.[54] In the 1860s more than half of those arrested in New York City were Irish born or of Irish descent but nearly half of the City's law enforcement officers were also Irish. By the turn of the 20th century, five out of six NYPD officers were Irish born or of Irish descent. As late as 1960s, even after minority hiring efforts, 42% of the NYPD were Irish Americans.[55]
Irish Catholics continue to be prominent in the law enforcement community, especially in New England. When the Emerald Society of the Boston Police Department was formed in 1873, half of the city's police officers became members.
We have waited for more than 340 years for our constitutional and God-given rights. The nations of Asia and Africa are moving with jetlike speed toward gaining political independence, but we stiff creep at horse-and-buggy pace toward gaining a cup of coffee at a lunch counter. Perhaps it is easy for those who have never felt the stinging darts of segregation to say, "Wait." But when you have seen vicious mobs lynch your mothers and fathers at will and drown your sisters and brothers at whim; when you have seen hate-filled policemen curse, kick and even kill your black brothers and sisters; when you see the vast majority of your twenty million Negro brothers smothering in an airtight cage of poverty in the midst of an affluent society; when you suddenly find your tongue twisted and your speech stammering as you seek to explain to your six-year-old daughter why she can't go to the public amusement park that has just been advertised on television, and see tears welling up in her eyes when she is told that Funtown is closed to colored children, and see ominous clouds of inferiority beginning to form in her little mental sky, and see her beginning to distort her personality by developing an unconscious bitterness toward white people; when you have to concoct an answer for a five-year-old son who is asking: "Daddy, why do white people treat colored people so mean?"; when you take a cross-country drive and find it necessary to sleep night after night in the uncomfortable corners of your automobile because no motel will accept you; when you are humiliated day in and day out by nagging signs reading "white" and "colored"; when your first name becomes "nigger," your middle name becomes "boy" (however old you are) and your last name becomes "John," and your wife and mother are never given the respected title "Mrs."; when you are harried by day and haunted by night by the fact that you are a Negro, living constantly at tiptoe stance, never quite knowing what to expect next, and are plagued with inner fears and outer resentments; when you go forever fighting a degenerating sense of "nobodiness"–then you will understand why we find it difficult to wait. There comes a time when the cup of endurance runs over, and men are no longer willing to be plunged into the abyss of despair. I hope, sirs, you can understand our legitimate and unavoidable impatience.
Historically our entire nation has been racist and sexist to a disgusting degree . . . but are they still?
It's not like us Whites are born with a vernacular that others can't comprehend.
The accusation was that the test was rigged in order to not hire blacks and Latinos, not whether or not favorite candidates were being coached.So how is this test rigged to excluded Blacks and Latinos? Looking at the sample questions the only people who would be excluded are people who are too stupid to bother studying for tests.So saying that the tests are designed to exclude blacks and Latinos amounts to saying that they are too stupid to pass a test.
Historically, the fire departments of NY have been a source of systemic racial discrimination. In the mid 1850s, the Irish essentially used it as a political tool. Since then, it's been a pretty useful tool for many other white ethnicities - the Polish, Croats, etc. This isn't really all that surprising. It's no different than how police departments in the South/West were used to keep control over blacks and Hispanics during the 40s-50s and 60s.
Going to provide any evidence?
Irish American - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Eating Smoke: Fire in Urban America, 1800-1950 - Mark Tebeau - Google Books
An Introduction to Policing - John S. Dempsey, Linda S. Forst - Google Books
King Institute Resources
I'm not revealing any secrets. Historically civil service institutions have served as a tool of systemic racial discrimination.
Old habits die hard.
Who says you are? Most people aren't aware of systemic racism or sexism. They simply exist within the system.
I did. 5 of them. Post 80? Keep up you apologist.
Statistics don't prove ****.
BTW, one of your links was some rant from a letter to birmingham about blacks in the 1960s... Doesn't seem to have jack **** to do with the topic.
Not to mention, someone had to bring this before the judge... judges don't go out yanking people into court to fit their own social agenda.
So, prior to some judge believing that minorities simply can not get along in life without his help....
Some minorities believed that they simply could not get along in life without the government's help.
Imagine that......
In the age of, "THE GOVERNMENT WILL HELP YOU!" style of thinking.
Are those laws still in place?If that were all I posted maybe you'd have a point. However I also posted analysis and examples of laws created to restrict minorities from joining civil service institutions. The rest of your post? Nothing but the same old tired apologist nonsense. Why don't you tell us about the time you listened to James Brown? Maybe we'll care.
And it has what to do with the CURRENT "racist" test?It's called a primary source. Do you know what that is? It's a statement from somebody living at the time. Lol.
Well I just don't see how a test such as that can be 'rewritten' so it's 'dumbed down' or something - it sounds like that's what they're suggesting must be done.
I don't get it: it's a test - you take it, they score it and go from there . . . if hiring isn't based *on* the test then why are they suing *over* the test? They're suing focusing on the test - claiming that it's written for whites - so what does a 'black' test look like? :roll:
If they believe they've been discriminated against then why is the TEST this huge determining factor? Why not the hiring managers, the process - everything else? Focusing on the test is ridiculous because ANYONE can study content and learn and do good on a test. . . can't they? Of course they can.
Are these people saying they're incapable of studying and learning and putting time and effort in order to pass the tests if they really tried?
My son wasn't born stupid just because he's mixed - he's quite capable of learning just like everyone else and when the time comes for him to be employed and if he chooses a career that he knows you MUST test into - I'll be certain to help him study and make it through it. But if he ever fails at anything in life I won't let him use his color as an iota of an excuse.
It's insulting to the entire race / people / culture / region when people stoop to that level.
The City has failed to demonstrate a sufficient relationship between the tasks of a firefighter and the abilities it intended to test on Exams 7029 and 2043. It has failed to take measures to ensure the reliability of those examinations; it has failed to take steps to ensure that that the reading level of the examinations was appropriate; it has failed to test for various recognized important abilities of a firefighter; it has failed to test for abilities needed upon entry into the Academy, rather than abilities to be learned on the job; it has failed to retain
testing professionals to devise the examination questions; and it has failed to demonstrate that the examinations it administered actually tested the abilities it intended to test. Compounding these
failings, the City has imposed arbitrary pass/fail scores, unrelated to the qualifications for the job of entry-level firefighter, and has constructed eligibility lists based on distinctions in test scores
that are unrelated to corresponding differences in the qualifications of firefighter candidates. Following the Second Circuit’s holding in Guardians, the court concludes that the City
improperly relied upon these poorly constructed examinations in the face of a disparate impact upon minority candidates.
let's see
they initiated legal action
and they then prevailed
as a LEO, you should be able to comprehend that is a strong indication that there was basis to their claim
Statistics don't prove ****.
So what... irish people made up a large percentage of the police department.
Irish also made up over 50% of the arrests..... Which mean...... they hated their own people?
No, it means that its all a god damned coincidence that you are trying to use as proof of something.
Statistics don't explain anything without additional evidence.
Are those laws still in place?
Do you have anything relevant to the 21st century? Or are you still living in the 1700s?
And it has what to do with the CURRENT "racist" test?
No... not when it comes to civil rights law........ Its all based on human emotion, especially in a district court with a judge's emotions reigning over the decision.
with that perception, and being a member of law enforcement, i hope your views are not shared by LEOs in my community
that emotion would prevail over fact in the federal courts is hogwash
your debate position has been extinguished and you are grasping for tiny, imagined straws
Then I think it is important when a judge's decision could be viewed as being based upon emotion that said decision be articulated.
We have little to no reason to believe that this case is not based on some emotion or some socio-political agenda.
As I still refuse to believe a test can somehow be racist.
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