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I agree, that would be trespassing. Private land is however a private matter.
Picking up arrowheads is one thing. Digging in known artifact areas is illegal.
It's a sad fact, but government authorities have been increasingly heavy-handed with taking Indian artifacts from collectors for the past couple of decades, regardless of where you find them. In many public areas now, it's illegal to even look for them on top of the ground.
I think it's a good thing. Especially here in the west where meth addicts plunder valuable archeological sites and sell the artifacts for just enough to get high. They do a lot of damage and descration to the sites and the surrounding environment. I'm all for a law that will put artifact thieves in jail.
This subject has me thinking and feeling guilty. While camping in the alcove in Utah I talked about earlier I ran across a pile of chipped stones while out on a hike one day. You could see where some Indian had sat and made arrowheads. There was a small pile of flaked off rock and a few misshapen arrowheads that he culled. It was really cool to imagine him sitting there doing that God only knows how long ago. I scooped the stones up and put them in my day pack. Now they are in a baggie somewhere I don't even know where. I should have left the stones there for someone else to find and marvel at but I was young and stupid, that's my only guilt ridden defense.
Here's where the collector probably went public.
He might have had a guest or guest over to his home, the guest might have seen the artifacts and known what they are or were.
The collector could also have bragged about having this or that of a collection, and it doesn't take much to pick up a phone and call an authority.
Authorities could also have been watching other collectors or gatherers of artifacts and did followups on leads.
The authorities wouldn't say what they found because they don't know. Usually, experts need to determine what was found in the home.
I don't know about this particular case but digging artifacts is a big business, big and illegal. It is just as illegal to buy these things as it is to dig and sell them. Years ago I found a dino skeleton fully exposed out in the middle of nowhere in Utah. I took a piece as a souvenir and now I feel bad about it. Someday I will return it to the tail and leave the skeleton intact. It was the coolest thing I ever found in my desert tramping.
There's probably a supervisor in that region of the FBI whose wife collects Native American collectables and wants them for herself.
I'm not talking about burial sites. I'm talking about walking along the edge of a lake, and collecting points off the surface, or finding them out in the open. That isn't desecration of a site.
this isn't about arrowheads. This is a collector and there are laws that govern such things and there must be some evidence that some of his massive collection, which is far more than Native American artifacts, is illegal. We shall see what comes out but a more complete story is here Thousands of artifacts removed from rural Indiana home
The Mimbres branch is a subset of the larger Mogollon culture area, centered in the Mimbres Valley and encompassing the upper Gila River and parts of the upper San Francisco River in southwestern New Mexico and southeastern Arizona as well as the Rio Grande Valley and it western tributaries in southwest New Mexico. Differentiation between the Mimbres branch and other areas of the Mogollon culture area is most apparent during the Three Circle (AD 825-1000 roughly) and Classic Mimbres (AD 1000-1150) phases, when architectural construction and black and white painted pottery assume locally distinctive forms and styles.[5] Classic Mimbres phase pottery is particularly famous pottery, and Classic Mimbres pottery designs (mainly drawn from the Swarts Ruin excavations of 1924-1927) were imitated on Santa Fe Railroad "Mimbreños" china dinnerware from 1936-1970.
No he hasn't been arrested or charged, but I don't think it's right that they are seizing artifacts that he's been collecting for 80 years. They are seizing it to determine if he broke a law?
That doesn't seem right that they can do that. I understand that there are certain things that are not allowed to own, like moon rocks. But it's not like moon rocks have been laying all over the ground for the last several thousand years. He probably started collecting arrow heads when he was a little boy, and has done so for the rest of his life. I have a neighbor who collects all sorts of artifacts, and she has found a bullet and a piece of a belt buckle from the Civil War. Does she have to worry about stuff like that now? :roll:
Yet you could rob 20 banks before the FBI made any head way in catching you.
It was stolen property. Technically it belongs to the tribe of whatever area it came from.
Really? Who's the last person to rob 20 banks without getting caught? GO.
It's not about who they belong to, it's about leaving things untouched so others can enjoy the find.Take them and do what you want with them. Skip them across a lake for all it matters.
White people pretending this matters to Native Americans is this stupid guilt-trip thing that serves no value whatsoever. Digging up graves is one thing, but finding arrow heads? Sure, the white people government says those are all theirs so you dare not touch them. Do whatever you want with them. Sell them on Ebay. Display them on a wall. Doesn't mean anything at all.
It isn't always illegal to dig and sell them. It depends on where you're digging, and who is buying. Back around 20 years ago, my husband and I used to go dig down in central Tx on private property, where you could pay a daily fee, and dig all you wanted. A year or two later, some archaeologists from one of the universities (iirc) dug the site as well. I have acquaintances who authenticate points for people who want to know that what they are buying is the real deal. I also have friends who make replica points and sell them.
Exactly correct.
I had a friend who lived near Mimbres, New Mexico. He pointed me to areas where if you dug the hard dry ground, you could find pieces of pottery, possibly dating back to the Mogollon Culture.
Of course, anything found or dug on what was National Forest Land or BLM land must be declared, it must be reported to local authorities, as I understand, it is not exactly legal to mine for pottery or artifacts on those lands.
In texas, it is common to find sites that are just littered in flakes and flint chips, and occasionally a nice point. Central texas was a goldmine for knappable flint, and many of the na's were nomadic. Large significant burial (or other) sites are uncommon.If it's legal fine. Most of my experience with artifacts has been in Utah where I have always taken my spring vacation and it is highly illegal there because of all the Anasazi ruins that get pilfered, not to mention all the dino stuff you can find laying around.
Like I said, if it's on my land it's mine. Mineral rights are another matter, but if somone is buried on my land and there is nobody left who can demonstrate that it is their relative, I don't care, I'll do with it/them as I please.
I probably won't adverstise it, but I will do what I need to do. And isn't that what oftenhappens already? Someone is building a parking lot and they come across something that looks like an old burial; somebody then decides to conceal the find so as not to end up losing their property rights.
If these tribes aren't prepared to finacially compensate finders of their "culture", they may not ever even know about the find. Just saying.
Only by placing strict limits on what actions may be taken by a bureaucracy can it be put to proper use - because I have no doubt that we need a bureaucracy for certain tasks.For anyone who studies bureaucracy this is easy to understand - bureaucracies are self-perpetuating. If you have an art-crime team, then that team needs to find something to do in order to justify its existence. If your town has a citizen safety committee, then that committee of bureaucrats is always going to find new ways of spending money to justify its existence.
Government loves taking property, it's one of the few things it's really good at.
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