FBI agent: Never was evidence of Russia collusion but Mueller team had 'get Trump' goal

[pamak]

You are certainly free to hold Mr. Trump politically responsible for the actions of Mr. Manafort.
Even as Trump knew nothing what Manafort was doing; Trump is in charge-- he is responsible for what goes on in his organization.

The problem is that the investigatory and surveillance authority of the USA was used against Trump for political reasons.
And that is something that can't happen again.

That is not the point..

The point is that the collusion investigation were also about the possibility that the Russians were using their agents to get access to Trump. So, even if you want to claim (without proof) that Trump knew nothing, it does not change the fact that the presence and actions of people like Manafort inside the Trump campaign gave reasonable justification for investigating possible collusion between the Russian government and MEMBERS of the Trump administration.

 

[pamak]

Kilmick reached out to Manafort.
As the Senate report indicated, Manafort took the job for his personal financial advantage.

Nobody could force Manafort to share campaign data with Kilmick. Collusion can start after a foreign agent approaches his target.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Apologies for pooping on your "party". It seems you cannot disagree with the well supported points and analysis in the article by Dr. Wheeler, PhD
that I linked to related to the disinfo of Barr, SA William Barnett or Flynn's pathetic excuse for a criminal defense attorney, Ms. Powell, or you would have made a relevant reply.

It looks like there is nothing more here to discuss. Resolve not to get fooled again. I read and link to Dr. Wheeler's posts because, unlike your sources, she is almost never wrong, and on the rare occasion when it comes to her attention she has posted anything inaccurate, she quickly informs her readers of her corrections.... the opposite of what the sources you rely on do, and it shows.

A blog isn't a reference point for analysis, its substituting someone else's analysis for your own. If I wanted to parrot talking points, I would post endless blog references and paragraphs from same. You do it so much it looks like advertising.

 

[OpportunityCost]

That is not the point..

The point is that the collusion investigation were also about the possibility that the Russians were using their agents to get access to Trump. So, even if you want to claim (without proof) that Trump knew nothing, it does not change the fact that the presence and actions of people like Manafort inside the Trump campaign gave reasonable justification for investigating possible collusion between the Russian government and MEMBERS of the Trump administration.

What was the FBI's excuse? They knew the dossier was produced, partly, by someone that was under investigation as a Russian spy while they were using the dossier to support investigating the Trump campaign with electronic and human surveillance. By your logic the entire upper echelon of the FBI is responsible for collusion.

 

[pamak]

What was the FBI's excuse? They knew the dossier was produced, partly, by someone that was under investigation as a Russian spy while they were using the dossier to support investigating the Trump campaign with electronic and human surveillance. By your logic the entire upper echelon of the FBI is responsible for collusion.

Actually Steele had a working relationship with the FBI in the past and I do not recall any suspicion that Steele was a Russian spy. Just the fact that Manafort had a history working for Russian interests in the Ukrainian political field and the fact that the Russians showed a clear desire to intervene in the US elections was enough. There were more corroborating evidence which raised red flags, such as information from the Australians who notified their counterparts about what Papadopoulos was saying.

Australian ambassador rejects Graham's description of diplomat's role in Russia probe's origins

The envoy also confirmed that the Australian government is assisting the attorney general's investigation of foreign interference in the 2016 election.

www.politico.com

According to Mueller’s report, a foreign government official contacted the FBI in July 2016 about an encounter he had with Papadopoulos two months earlier, during which the then-Trump aide suggested the campaign “had received indications from the Russian government that it could assist the Campaign through the anonymous release of information damaging to” Clinton

 

[Athanasius68]

Nobody could force Manafort to share campaign data with Kilmick. Collusion can start after a foreign agent approaches his target.

Nope. But its a long way from a conspiracy.

 

[Athanasius68]

That is not the point..

The point is that the collusion investigation were also about the possibility that the Russians were using their agents to get access to Trump. So, even if you want to claim (without proof) that Trump knew nothing, it does not change the fact that the presence and actions of people like Manafort inside the Trump campaign gave reasonable justification for investigating possible collusion between the Russian government and MEMBERS of the Trump administration.

Trump doesn't have to prove anything- proving guilt is the sole responsibility of the government.

We are past the point where we can say something like failure to investigate Russian actions would have been derelict. We already know the campaign was specifically targeted for investigation based upon a theory of conspiracy. Not upon Russia simply seeking to infiltrate the campaign.

 

[pamak]

Trump doesn't have to prove anything- proving guilt is the sole responsibility of the government.

We are past the point where we can say something like failure to investigate Russian actions would have been derelict. We already know the campaign was specifically targeted for investigation based upon a theory of conspiracy. Not upon Russia simply seeking to infiltrate the campaign.

I did not say that Trump has to prove anything. My point is that the FBI had many reasons to have an investigation about possible collusion between the Russian government and some members of the Trump administration. And the IG report said the same thing!

 

[Integrityrespec]

An FBI agent who played a lead role investigating Michael Flynn told the Justice Department there was never evidence of wrongdoing by the retired general or Russian collusion by President Trump, but the probe was kept open by Special Counsel Robert Mueller because his team had a "get Trump" goal, according to an explosive interview released Friday.

FBI agent: Never was evidence of Russia collusion but Mueller team had 'get Trump' goal

Agent says Flynn case should have been shut down but FBI kept it open without legal grounds.

justthenews.com

The Obama Administration behaved like some shithole, 3rd World Banana Republic thugs... and ruined the FBI, CIA, DoJ, and IRS for their own narrow, political interests.

And the Goebbels Media was goose-stepping with the Corruptnik Obama Administration and its Treasonous henchmen... every step of the way.

Oh heck, 50 percent of the country knew this, another 40 percent were pretty darn sure this was true, and 9 of the remainging 10% knew it was true but just couldn't admit it. 1% actually believed the democrats BS, a few names were Nadler, Schiff, oh, well anyway two people believed the BS.

 

[pamak]

Nope. But its a long way from a conspiracy.

You talk about conspiracy which has a legal meaning and certain requirements that must be proven beyond reasonable doubt. I am talking about collusion which does not have a legal definition but it can certainly apply to describe Manafort's choice to share campaign data with Russians associated with Russian intelligence services.

 

[pamak]

Oh heck, 50 percent of the country knew this, another 40 percent were pretty darn sure this was true, and 9 of the remainging 10% knew it was true but just couldn't admit it. 1% actually believed the democrats BS, a few names were Nadler, Schiff, oh, well anyway two people believed the BS.

What is te percentage of people who cannot read? Because it appears that many people do not realize that the transcript of the FBI agent's interview reveals the agent himself said that Flynn lied to the FBI! And the agent himself was among those who thought that Flynn should be interviewed.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Actually Steele had a working relationship with the FBI in the past and I do not recall any suspicion that Steele was a Russian spy. Just the fact that Manafort had a history working for Russian interests in the Ukrainian political field and the fact that the Russians showed a clear desire to intervene in the US elections was enough. There were more corroborating evidence which raised red flags, such as information from the Australians who notified their counterparts about what Papadopoulos was saying.

Australian ambassador rejects Graham's description of diplomat's role in Russia probe's origins

The envoy also confirmed that the Australian government is assisting the attorney general's investigation of foreign interference in the 2016 election.

www.politico.com

According to Mueller’s report, a foreign government official contacted the FBI in July 2016 about an encounter he had with Papadopoulos two months earlier, during which the then-Trump aide suggested the campaign “had received indications from the Russian government that it could assist the Campaign through the anonymous release of information damaging to” Clinton

Except when you put names to it, it becomes ridiculous. Are you referring to Halper's rumor or Mifsud's outright lie?

Source 1 for the Steele dossier was under investigation for being a Russian spy at the time that the dossier was being used----Danchenko? I think.

 

[OpportunityCost]

You talk about conspiracy which has a legal meaning and certain requirements that must be proven beyond reasonable doubt. I am talking about collusion which does not have a legal definition but it can certainly apply to describe Manafort's choice to share campaign data with Russians associated with Russian intelligence services.

Which is why collusion never should have been used to define legal accusations. If collusion is what Mueller believed he had, it means legally, he had nothing and was knowledgeable enough to know that. So why was collusion used? To cover for the investigation itself.

 

[pamak]

Except when you put names to it, it becomes ridiculous. Are you referring to Halper's rumor or Mifsud's outright lie?

Source 1 for the Steele dossier was under investigation for being a Russian spy at the time that the dossier was being used----Danchenko? I think.

I talked about Steele himself.
The fact that some of his sources were Russians is known. He had developed such conducts in Moscow from his prior work in the British intelligence. But this does not mean that the information that was received was false. Right now CIA probably uses Russian moles it has recruited to get intelligence from Moscow, and in reverse, Russians have used American officers in the intelligence community to get information.

 

[pamak]

Which is why collusion never should have been used to define legal accusations. If collusion is what Mueller believed he had, it means legally, he had nothing and was knowledgeable enough to know that. So why was collusion used? To cover for the investigation itself.

The Congress (and the citizens) are not and should not be interested in just the legal aspect of a behavior. A certain action may make somebody look as a likely crook or collaborator but without satisfying the threshold of proof that is required in a criminal case ) beyond reasonable doubt). Still, citizens must be concerned with politician exhibiting such behavior.

 

[OpportunityCost]

I talked about Steele himself.
The fact that some of his sources were Russians is known. He had developed such conducts in Moscow from his prior work in the British intelligence. But this does not mean that the information that was received was false. Right now CIA probably uses Russian moles it has recruited to get intelligence from Moscow, and in reverse, Russians have used American officers in the intelligence community to get information.

The fact that this source was under investigation while being a source for Steele is the point. The FBI knew who he was in December of 2016, so they assigned a credibility to Danchenko's information that they knew was false to obtain FISA warrants. The point is the lies to lend more credibility to something they knew was trash early in the process, but they used it anyway.

Conclusion: investigation may not have started political but it damn sure became political.

 

[OpportunityCost]

The Congress (and the citizens) are not and should not be interested in just the legal aspect of a behavior. A certain action may make somebody look as a likely crook or collaborator but without satisfying the threshold of proof that is required in a criminal case ) beyond reasonable doubt). Still, citizens must be concerned with politician exhibiting such behavior.

You mean like the lies and bullshit from the FBI and DOJ under Obama?

 

[Athanasius68]

I talked about Steele himself.
The fact that some of his sources were Russians is known. He had developed such conducts in Moscow from his prior work in the British intelligence. But this does not mean that the information that was received was false. Right now CIA probably uses Russian moles it has recruited to get intelligence from Moscow, and in reverse, Russians have used American officers in the intelligence community to get information.

We now know that Steele did NOT have a huge network that was supplying him with the information. This story of Steele milking all his contacts we know is false.
He had Russian guy, who said his knowledge was from other guys he was talking with who in turn were saying things they had heard from others.
Its gobbeldygook.
And we now know that this guy himself had been investigated by the FBI for being a Russian agent.
At this point, we have to consider that the Steele himself was an unwitting agent of a Russian intelligence operation.

 

[post]

Try making a post that isn't begging for clicks to your empty wheel blog.

Apologies for pooping on your "party". It seems you cannot disagree with the well supported points and analysis in the article by Dr. Wheeler, PhD
that I linked to related to the disinfo of Barr, SA William Barnett or Flynn's pathetic excuse for a criminal defense attorney, Ms. Powell, or you would have made a relevant reply.

It looks like there is nothing more here to discuss. Resolve not to get fooled again. I read and link to Dr. Wheeler's posts because, unlike your sources, she is almost never wrong, and on the rare occasion when it comes to her attention she has posted anything inaccurate, she quickly informs her readers of her corrections.... the opposite of what the sources you rely on do, and it shows.

A blog isn't a reference point for analysis, its substituting someone else's analysis for your own. If I wanted to parrot talking points, I would post endless blog references and paragraphs from same. You do it so much it looks like advertising.

You provide no actual information or links to any original sources of facts.... Your only purpose seems to be to mislead, as you've been misled.

Versus: This just in....

DOJ's NSL Report Proves that William Barnett Misrepresented the Evidence Implicating Mike Flynn - emptywheel

According to an NSL summary released by DOJ this week, Mike Flynn had at least four phone lines during the period when he was secretly reaching out to the Russian Ambassador. Those phone lines make his lies about coordinating his sanctions messaging far more damning.

www.emptywheel.net

 

[pamak]

The fact that this source was under investigation while being a source for Steele is the point. The FBI knew who he was in December of 2016, so they assigned a credibility to Danchenko's information that they knew was false to obtain FISA warrants. The point is the lies to lend more credibility to something they knew was trash early in the process, but they used it anyway.

Conclusion: investigation may not have started political but it damn sure became political.

Checking your sources is standard procedure and a sign that thoe who used this sourcce did not just want to accept uncritically what they have heard. The fact that the provided info in the Steel dossier had to be verified was known even to Steele who aid it openy to the FBI.

 

[pamak]

You mean like the lies and bullshit from the FBI and DOJ under Obama?

Obama's FBI had no problem to inform the public about reopening the Hilary investgation a few weeks before the elections. Not only that, but Obama' FBI chose NOT to reveal to the public before the elections the existence of the Steele dossier. Trump should actually thank Obama's FBI for al the above.

 

[pamak]

We now know that Steele did NOT have a huge network that was supplying him with the information. This story of Steele milking all his contacts we know is false.
He had Russian guy, who said his knowledge was from other guys he was talking with who in turn were saying things they had heard from others.
Its gobbeldygook.
And we now know that this guy himself had been investigated by the FBI for being a Russian agent.
At this point, we have to consider that the Steele himself was an unwitting agent of a Russian intelligence operation.

What is the definition of "huge network"? And having a smaller network can be also effective if the people are in key positions. In any case, even Steele and the FBI knew that the info in the Steele dossier had to be corroborated by other sources.. And yes, intelligence can follow leads based on what some people heard by other people. You confuse the legal process *where such hearsay cannot be used in courts) with iinvestigative work which can follow any link. And I also reminded people the fact that there were oter pieces of information coming from Australians (based on Papadopulos' conversations with an Austalian diplomat).
There is no motive for the Russians to use Steele to provide info against Trump. So, you theory is just irrational.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Obama's FBI had no problem to inform the public about reopening the Hilary investgation a few weeks before the elections. Not only that, but Obama' FBI chose NOT to reveal to the public before the elections the existence of the Steele dossier. Trump should actually thank Obama's FBI for al the above.

They chose not to release it because they already knew it was trash---that has been my point. They never should have relied on it at all, for anything. But they did, knowing it was disinformation.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Checking your sources is standard procedure and a sign that thoe who used this sourcce did not just want to accept uncritically what they have heard. The fact that the provided info in the Steel dossier had to be verified was known even to Steele who aid it openy to the FBI.

You are downplaying what the FBI leadership knew about the source, but they went ahead and used it anyway. They had things they knew were lies but used it as part of supporting evidence for a FISA warrant. Watergate plumbers are pikers compared to this.

Not to mention vouching for the thing on a FISA warrant. Leadership signed off on that, knowing full well it was junk.

 

[pamak]

You are downplaying what the FBI leadership knew about the source, but they went ahead and used it anyway. They had things they knew were lies but used it as part of supporting evidence for a FISA warrant. Watergate plumbers are pikers compared to this.

Not to mention vouching for the thing on a FISA warrant. Leadership signed off on that, knowing full well it was junk.

They did not know anything about the source...They knew a lot about Steele though who had a god reputation with the FBI because there have been a successful cooperation in the past, and the FBI just could NOT ignore the infor that Steele brought especially since it corroborated also similar info from different sources such as the Australians.