Father asks school to bar unvaccinated children.

[jmotivator]

Severe complication rates for the Hep B vaccine: 1 in 1.1 Million.

Severe complication rates for NSAIDs: 15.3 per 100,000

That means that giving your kid a Motrin for their fever is an order of magnitude more dangerous than giving them the Hep B vaccine.

Now, lets say they contract Hep B because you opted not to vaccinate.

80% of all liver cancer is caused by Hepatitis B. The five year survival rate for liver cancer is only 10%.

With numbers like that, why should any public school system allow any kid not vaccinated for it to attend that school? Particularly considering we live in an immigrant nation with students from all over the world.

Who would these children be a threat to? Presumably the vaccinated children are protected.

 

[ludin]

I think you're in over your head. Drop out of this one.

Since you can't actually address the issue then it is not me that is over their head that would be you.

 

[justabubba]

Who would these children be a threat to? Presumably the vaccinated children are protected.

i believe it was pointed out earlier in the thread (without cite as i recall) that the morphing/evolution of the organisms allowed to gain a foothold are so changed that they can then inflict the vaccinated

 

[whysoserious]

No, it isn't. Children without vaccinations are primarily a threat to other people without vaccinations. In this case, the number of threats facing a child with leukemia are not significantly decreased in a group of vaccinated children because the vast majority of threats don't come from things that people are vaccinated against.

I certainly understand the mentality of a father with a critically ill child fighting to make life as normal for his child as possible, but some fights, including this one, are a poor use of his time and energy.

Primarily, sure, since the transmission rate is higher. However, vaccinations are not 100% effective, so the risk of transmission is still there and it's unnecessary for it to be.

 

[whysoserious]

Since you can't actually address the issue then it is not me that is over their head that would be you.

You're getting upset because the flu vaccine doesn't stop all forms of the flu. That's not a good argument against why it's bull**** that parents aren't vaccinating their kids against infectious diseases.

 

[jmotivator]

i believe it was pointed out earlier in the thread (without cite as i recall) that the morphing/evolution of the organisms allowed to gain a foothold are so changed that they can then inflict the vaccinated

Sure, that is always a threat. This is why the flu vaccine every year is different. But on the occasions that the virus mutates and nullifies the effectiveness of the vaccine what good is it to be vaccinated? The only time that a vaccinated child has an advantage over the unvaccinated is when they are vaccinated against the virus that the unvaccinated child contracts, and at those times the unvaccinated child isn't a threat to a vaccinated child.

But this also shows the futility of this father's fight. If vaccinated children are susceptible to a mutated virus then his child is in trouble.

 

[ludin]

You're getting upset because the flu vaccine doesn't stop all forms of the flu. That's not a good argument against why it's bull**** that parents aren't vaccinating their kids against infectious diseases.

that isn't what I said at all. that is a strawman. if you can't address the issue then you simply don't have an argument and are over your head.

The fact is this guy and you are railing against people when he is putting his own kid at greater risk by things that can't be vaccined for.
you and others are completely ignoring this. why? who knows. you don't seem to either want to understand or get it.

Those types of things run far greater risk of infection than the other as they are way more common.
which means people with suppressed immune systems are highly more at risk from those.

 

[Manc Skipper]

While vaccinesare not 100% effective, they provide a protection not otherwise available to the unvaccinated, who serve as a vector for infection of those who are compromised in some way. All schools should ban unvaccinated children routinely, since they increase the infection risk for everyone they contact.

 

[whysoserious]

that isn't what I said at all. that is a strawman. if you can't address the issue then you simply don't have an argument and are over your head.

The fact is this guy and you are railing against people when he is putting his own kid at greater risk by things that can't be vaccined for.
you and others are completely ignoring this. why? who knows. you don't seem to either want to understand or get it.

Those types of things run far greater risk of infection than the other as they are way more common.
which means people with suppressed immune systems are highly more at risk from those.

You're right, your argument was even worse than that:

yet this kid can catch the flu.
he can catch strep
depending on the weather conditions he is at risk for bronchitis or pneumonia.

you can't vaccinate for those. I guess all kids should stay home so they don't spread that around.
the fathers argument is stupid and logically dumb.

so the only kid that should attend that school is his.

It was, "he can't vaccinate against everything, so **** it!". Hey guys, you may be able to vaccinate measles, but you can vaccinate AIDS, so **** it! Don't worry about getting vaccinations or worrying if the guy next to you has some disease that was mitigated long ago.

 

[iguanaman]

In a word (two actually):

Home School

Exactly. Non-immunized children should not be attending school. Keep them home and fine the parents daily until they get their children shots.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Who would these children be a threat to? Presumably the vaccinated children are protected.

Vaccines are not 100% effective. Thus the need for herd immunity resulting from high vaccination rates.

 

[Gina]

:shrug: I don't get my kids the full giant battery of vaccines they shove at you nowadays. You are welcome to try to take my children. Note that I am betting my .556 rounds run faster than you do.


What an awesome stance for a libertarian to take.

Have they at least had the MMR, DPT and polio?

 

[Gina]

they are most likely getting their info from unscientific ****holes like natural news and from other blogs written by people who probably haven't even taken undergraduate immunology.

And FaceBook.

 

[Henrin]

You're right, your argument was even worse than that:



It was, "he can't vaccinate against everything, so **** it!". Hey guys, you may be able to vaccinate measles, but you can vaccinate AIDS, so **** it! Don't worry about getting vaccinations or worrying if the guy next to you has some disease that was mitigated long ago.

The argument isn't that the kid can get AIDS, but that the kid is not healthy enough to be in school to being unable to resist even the weakest of ailments. The point that the father made might be something you agree with, but when it comes to his kid there is much more to worry about.

 

[jamesrage]

To Protect His Son, A Father Asks School To Bar Unvaccinated Children : Shots - Health News : NPR



The consequences of not vaccinating your children stretch further than your own childs life, but this is an interesting exercise in whether the father should require other children to also be vaccinated to accommodate his sons disease. Would a better solution be for him to just take his son out of the line of fire?

Personally I would do the exact same thing as the father in that situation and make that same request. I also hope that the request is granted as a blow against ignorance.

1.If the father's kid can go to school unvaccinated then so can everyone elses kids.

2.Vaccines do not protect people against every strain of a virus.So a child with flue shot can still get the flu and spread it to others.

3.If the father is that worried about his child's safety then he should home school his child because schools are not exactly sterile environments.

 

[Gina]

So last year there was 644 people diagnosed with measles and you guys are scared? Why exactly are you scared again?

Measles are highly contagious:

If other people breathe the contaminated air or touch the infected surface, then touch their eyes, noses, or mouths, they can become infected. Measles is so contagious that if one person has it, 90% of the people close to that person who are not immune will also become infected.

Infected people can spread measles to others from four days before to four days after the rash appears.

Complications:

Ear infections occur in about one out of every 10 children with measles and can result in permanent hearing loss.
Some people may suffer from severe complications, such as pneumonia (infection of the lungs) and encephalitis (swelling of the brain). They may need to be hospitalized and could die.

As many as one out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, the most common cause of death from measles in young children.
About one child out of every 1,000 who get measles will develop encephalitis (swelling of the brain) that can lead to convulsions and can leave the child deaf or mentally retarded.
For every 1,000 children who get measles, one or two will die from it.

Measles may cause pregnant woman to give birth prematurely, or have a low-birth-weight baby.

Because of when and what kind of measles vaccination I had as a child, my doctor tested me in my young 20's and found I had zero antibodies and needed a booster. Until then, I was at risk of getting measles without being aware of it.

 

[whysoserious]

FYI, for those of you who think it's not a big deal:

Mom: Family that refused vaccination put my baby in quarantine - CNN.com

One of the most contagious viruses on Earth, measles can hang in the air or on surfaces for hours. If she'd contracted the disease, Livia could become deaf or even die.

Their child is now in quarantine and at risk of major health issues, all because some people are too dumb to get their kids vaccinated.

 

[nota bene]

Measles are highly contagious:


Complications:

Because of when and what kind of measles vaccination I had as a child, my doctor tested me in my young 20's and found I had zero antibodies and needed a booster. Until then, I was at risk of getting measles without being aware of it.

I still am.

Because of the known connection between rubella and pregnancy complications and birth defects, what parents did before the vaccine was developed (1968 with the first really good one in 1971, I think) what parents did was deliberately expose their young daughters to it--had them spend the weekend with sick kids in the hope they'd catch it then rather than in their reproductive years.

 

[nota bene]

Certainly. When they are having wild sex at the age of 18 months and getting tattoos, I shall also remind them not to randomly swap toothbrushes with untested Asians :roll:

OH MY GOD. QUICKLY, FLEE YOUR HOME, ZAP IT WITH RADIATION AND THEN LOCK YOUR CHILDREN IN A PLASTIC BUBBLE. YOU HAVE TO KILL EVERYTHING OR THE HIV IS GOING TO GET YOU AND EVERYONE YOU LOVE.

:shrug: my kids have lived in other countries. Ran around barefoot and everything. Thus far we seem to have survived .

And you've been blessed. Most of us are...but some of us aren't.

 

[Declan]

That more idiots will continue to not vaccinate their kids. Why don't we just quit bathing while we're at it?

I did that like 5 years ago.

 

[Paxaeon]

`
California must have different laws. Here in Wisconsin, children are required to have a full set of immunization shots before they are allowed to attend school.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

`
California must have different laws. Here in Wisconsin, children are required to have a full set of immunization shots before they are allowed to attend school.

Same here. But, California has a broad personal exemption law that allows parents to get out of it there. Hopefully stories like this fathers will convince the state legislator there of the absurdity from a public health perspective of their law.

 

[cpwill]

Has it occured to you that kids wind up bleeding pretty frequently?

How many children are you currently raising, Smoke?

Between the two of us, which one do you think, on a daily basis, is more aware of and dealing with the sorts of minor bumps and scrapes that kids pick up?

But please. Share more with me of your expertise of my kids.

 

[ludin]

You're right, your argument was even worse than that:



It was, "he can't vaccinate against everything, so **** it!". Hey guys, you may be able to vaccinate measles, but you can vaccinate AIDS, so **** it! Don't worry about getting vaccinations or worrying if the guy next to you has some disease that was mitigated long ago.

more strawman arguments.

either address the argument or just concede the point.

 

[cpwill]

Have they at least had the MMR, DPT and polio?

One of the kids doesn't have polio - we missed it, so we'll have to get it next time.