Farm labor - from best to worst

Let’s look at some different forms of labor and how they affect the millions of Americans who buy food every day.


Best: Full automation. GPS guided tractors and similar tech bring labor costs per unit close to zero. That drives food prices down, making it affordable hundreds of millions of Americans.


Good: Cheap migrant labor. Labor costs are higher than automation but still relatively low. When automation isn’t feasible, cheap migrant labor helps keep food prices reasonable.


Bad: Domestic labor at high wages. While Americans can do farm work, most aren’t willing to do it for low wages. When employers must pay significantly more, the cost per unit rises sharply. This can raise food prices to the point where many low-income consumers struggle to feed their families, forcing them to sacrifice other essentials just to eat.


Worst: Unionized labor monopolies. When unions control the labor supply, they can and will demand inflated wages and benefits. In industries with tight margins like agriculture, that means soaring labor costs and a major spike in consumer prices. The result? Food would become unaffordable for hundreds of millions of Americans.

Of course, not every increase in labor cost results in a one to one increase in consumer prices. The degree to which costs are passed on depends on price elasticity - how sensitive food demand is to price changes. But for something essential like food, where demand is relatively inelastic, higher input costs will hit consumers very hard.

This pattern doesn’t just apply to agriculture - it’s a general rule across all industries. When labor costs are artificially inflated, prices rise, and consumers lose.

And remember, we are all consumers.

 

[CaughtInThe]

God. A Libertarian wants to take jobs away from a gazillion people via automation.

I guess we'll eventually have to turn into a socialist state where people just get an allowance from the government since everything will be automated.

And my guess is the OP is retired.

 

[Cosmo]

God. A Libertarian wants to take jobs away from a gazillion people via automation.

I guess we'll eventually have to turn into a socialist state where people just get an allowance from the government since everything will be automated.

And my guess is the OP is retired.

When automation leads to efficiency, new jobs are created in free markets. For example, truck drivers and automakers replacing coachmen and horse farmers.

Liberals only see two solutions: ban technological advancement and have the workers dig with spoons, or kill the economy with a totalitarian government.

 

[CaughtInThe]

When automation leads to efficiency, new jobs are created in free markets. For example, truck drivers and automakers replacing coachmen and horse farmers.

Dude. You suck at math.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Let’s look at some different forms of labor and how they affect the millions of Americans who buy food every day.


Best: Full automation. GPS guided tractors and similar tech bring labor costs per unit close to zero. That drives food prices down, making it affordable hundreds of millions of Americans.


Good: Cheap migrant labor. Labor costs are higher than automation but still relatively low. When automation isn’t feasible, cheap migrant labor helps keep food prices reasonable.


Bad: Domestic labor at high wages. While Americans can do farm work, most aren’t willing to do it for low wages. When employers must pay significantly more, the cost per unit rises sharply. This can raise food prices to the point where many low-income consumers struggle to feed their families, forcing them to sacrifice other essentials just to eat.


Worst: Unionized labor monopolies. When unions control the labor supply, they can and will demand inflated wages and benefits. In industries with tight margins like agriculture, that means soaring labor costs and a major spike in consumer prices. The result? Food would become unaffordable for hundreds of millions of Americans.

Of course, not every increase in labor cost results in a one to one increase in consumer prices. The degree to which costs are passed on depends on price elasticity - how sensitive food demand is to price changes. But for something essential like food, where demand is relatively inelastic, higher input costs will hit consumers very hard.

This pattern doesn’t just apply to agriculture - it’s a general rule across all industries. When labor costs are artificially inflated, prices rise, and consumers lose.

And remember, we are all consumers.

Everybody doesn't have to eat steak. Most middle class families learn early how to feed a family on a budget. Meals can be healthy, filling and affordable if you plan and are careful with what you purchase.
Things like the price of a school lunch without being on the free or reduced lunch programs are a real problem for families who have 3-4 kids eating school lunches. It's more affordable to pack a lunch. It may mean you can't purchase double stuff oreos, and peanut butter and jelly may get old, but it works.

 

[BirdinHand]

How are you picking strawberries with a tractor?



Or cutting asparagus?



Ever been anywhere near a farm?

 

[soylentgreen]

Let’s look at some different forms of labor and how they affect the millions of Americans who buy food every day.


Best: Full automation. GPS guided tractors and similar tech bring labor costs per unit close to zero. That drives food prices down, making it affordable hundreds of millions of Americans.


Good: Cheap migrant labor. Labor costs are higher than automation but still relatively low. When automation isn’t feasible, cheap migrant labor helps keep food prices reasonable.


Bad: Domestic labor at high wages. While Americans can do farm work, most aren’t willing to do it for low wages. When employers must pay significantly more, the cost per unit rises sharply. This can raise food prices to the point where many low-income consumers struggle to feed their families, forcing them to sacrifice other essentials just to eat.


Worst: Unionized labor monopolies. When unions control the labor supply, they can and will demand inflated wages and benefits. In industries with tight margins like agriculture, that means soaring labor costs and a major spike in consumer prices. The result? Food would become unaffordable for hundreds of millions of Americans.

Of course, not every increase in labor cost results in a one to one increase in consumer prices. The degree to which costs are passed on depends on price elasticity - how sensitive food demand is to price changes. But for something essential like food, where demand is relatively inelastic, higher input costs will hit consumers very hard.

This pattern doesn’t just apply to agriculture - it’s a general rule across all industries. When labor costs are artificially inflated, prices rise, and consumers lose.

And remember, we are all consumers.

A wonderful display of how ignorance always leads to the wrong answers.

Previous analysis shows that supplier costs are the major component of supermarket prices, representing two-thirds of the on-shelf price.

Anyone who actually understands how food prices work would know that the farmer receives very little for the produce they grow and it is the the middle men, the suppliers who reap the biggest profit and create the high cost of food.

 

[OlNate]

How are you picking strawberries with a tractor?

Or cutting asparagus?

Ever been anywhere near a farm?

Never underestimate human inovation when it comes to making a buck.

 

[aociswundumho]

Never underestimate human inovation when it comes to making a buck.

So self-interest drives innovation. Not some desire to make the world a better place.

 

[aociswundumho]

How are you picking strawberries with a tractor?



Or cutting asparagus?

I didn't know machines could do these either, but it doesn't matter either way.

If machines can't do it, then go ahead and pay human labor. The point is, doing whichever is cheaper is the right choice for you and for everyone.

Ever been anywhere near a farm?

I worked at a stable when I was 13, 14.

 

[Integrityrespec]

So self-interest drives innovation. Not some desire to make the world a better place.

A bit of both I expect.

 

[aociswundumho]

A bit of both I expect.

Thomas Edison put it perfectly:

Anything that won’t sell, I don’t want to invent. Its sale is proof of utility, and utility is success.”

 

[aociswundumho]

God. A Libertarian wants to take jobs away from a gazillion people via automation.

I guess we'll eventually have to turn into a socialist state where people just get an allowance from the government since everything will be automated.

It’s not economically viable to automate everything. If a $10/hour worker is cheaper than a $100,000 robot, the person gets the job.

And my guess is the OP is retired.

I work six days a week.

 

[aociswundumho]

Anyone who actually understands how food prices work would know that the farmer receives very little for the produce they grow and it is the the middle men, the suppliers who reap the biggest profit and create the high cost of food.

After food leaves the farm, it goes to processors, then distributors, and finally retailers. Each of those stages employs thousands, but once again: full automation is best, and unionized labor monopolies are the worst.

 

[Cosmo]

Never underestimate human inovation when it comes to making a buck.

I guess it's the other poster that's only seen farms in period pieces.

 

[soylentgreen]

After food leaves the farm, it goes to processors, then distributors, and finally retailers. Each of those stages employs thousands, but once again: full automation is best, and unionized labor monopolies are the worst.

Except that automation itself is expensive and only affordable by corporate farming methods. Meaning that your idea will drive out small independent farmers. Meaning that ameircas food source will be controlled and manipulated by a few wealthy businesses who can then demand whatever price they want. Do you really think it a good idea to have all your food sources controlled by just a few people.

I reject the notion that farm workers are to expensive to consider. I do not know how well farmer markets work in america but here they are plentiful, nearly every town and city has one or two. They are gathering of small independent farmers who have workers and yet are still able to offer fruit and vegetables at a lower cost and better condition than the corporate owned supermarkets. And we have things like minimum wages and workers contracts that gaurantee working conditions for the workers.

The problem america has is that it does not want to give up using slave labour on its farms. regardless of whether that work comes from migrants who are underpaid and abused or from jails where prisoners are forced to worked for little to no pay.
You have a shit system of exploitation that is the problem.

 

[Cosmo]

Except that automation itself is expensive and only affordable by corporate farming methods. Meaning that your idea will drive out small independent farmers. Meaning that ameircas food source will be controlled and manipulated by a few wealthy businesses who can then demand whatever price they want. Do you really think it a good idea to have all your food sources controlled by just a few people.

Corporations are literally designed to make investing in them easy to do for small investors. But hey, let's just melt down over the big bad rich people.

I reject the notion that farm workers are to expensive to consider. I do not know how well farmer markets work in america but here they are plentiful, nearly every town and city has one or two. They are gathering of small independent farmers who have workers and yet are still able to offer fruit and vegetables at a lower cost and better condition than the corporate owned supermarkets. And we have things like minimum wages and workers contracts that gaurantee working conditions for the workers.

The problem america has is that it does not want to give up using slave labour on its farms. regardless of whether that work comes from migrants who are underpaid and abused or from jails where prisoners are forced to worked for little to no pay.
You have a shit system of exploitation that is the problem.

 

[soylentgreen]

Corporations are literally designed to make investing in them easy to do for small investors. But hey, let's just melt down over the big bad rich people.

The small investor has little to no say in how a corporation is run. That is why it is easy for them to invest in companies. It is the few wealthy corporate heads that decide what happens. Lets not pretend that corporations actually give a shit about small investors.

 

[Cosmo]

The small investor has little to no say in how a corporation is run. That is why it is easy for them to invest in companies. It is the few wealthy corporate heads that decide what happens. Lets not pretend that corporations actually give a shit about small investors.

The small investor has the same goal as the big one: dividend paid per share and share price.

 

[poppopfox]

I worked at a stable when I was 13, 14.

That's not a farm.

 

[Cosmo]

That's not a farm.

Correct, it's a part of one (a structure to be precise).

 

[soylentgreen]

The small investor has the same goal as the big one: dividend paid per share and share price.

The small investor can choose to only invest in companies that actually care that what they do is not damaging the environment or exploiting workers. Those that do not care are as bad as the companies they invest in that do create harm to create profit.

And again the small investor has little to no say in how the company is run. So what have they to do with the argument that large corporations will drive out small independent farmers if automation is the only answer to farm labour?

 

[Cosmo]

The small investor can choose to only invest in companies that actually care that what they do is not damaging the environment or exploiting workers.

So can anybody. If you don't want workers exploited, you should be happy with automation.

Those that do not care are as bad as the companies they invest in that do create harm to create profit.

What harm? They're giving people jobs, whether those people are farm laborers or computer programmers writing software for automated tractors. How many farm laborers do you pay?

And again the small investor has little to no say in how the company is run. So what have they to do with the argument that large corporations will drive out small independent farmers if automation is the only answer to farm labour?

You're missing the part where you tie it all together into a cohesive argument.

• You said automation is expensive. Except, things typically get cheaper because of automation, so that makes no sense.
• You say they will run out independent farmers and jack up the price, but you can't do both: either you drive down the price to drive out the competitors, or you raise it and don't.

Are things more expensive these days because of Amazon? No, it's one of the cheapest places to get shipped goods. And Amazon has been around for like, 30 years. Even if all smaller competitors got driven out (hasn't happened), they still can't jack up the price too much because they have eBay to compete with. Plus Amazon is a marketplace for small sellers to sell stuff as well.

The zero sum / evil big corporation economics theory doesn't work, sorry.

 

[soylentgreen]

So can anybody. If you don't want workers exploited, you should be happy with automation.

I should also be happy with recognition of the rights of workers.

What harm? They're giving people jobs, whether those people are farm laborers or computer programmers writing software for automated tractors. How many farm laborers do you pay?

They can also create environmental harm and exploit those workers. The simple fact that they pay people does not mitigate any harm done to create profit.

You're missing the part where you tie it all together into a cohesive argument.

• You said automation is expensive. Except, things typically get cheaper because of automation, so that makes no sense.

To purchase such machinery is possible when you are a large corporation. Not so easy when you are a single small farmer.

• You say they will run out independent farmers and jack up the price, but you can't do both: either you drive down the price to drive out the competitors, or you raise it and don't.

That is ridiculous. Drive out the competition and create a monopoly and then they can demand whatever price they want to.

Are things more expensive these days because of Amazon? No, it's one of the cheapest places to get shipped goods. And Amazon has been around for like, 30 years. Even if all smaller competitors got driven out (hasn't happened), they still can't jack up the price too much because they have eBay to compete with. Plus Amazon is a marketplace for small sellers to sell stuff as well.

The zero sum / evil big corporation economics theory doesn't work, sorry.

Nor does ignoring that small independent business is fast disappearing as large companies take over. You ignore the fact that amazon and places like that often abuse and under pay their workers just so you can get a cheap and badly made product.
What really does not work is you giving a one sided limited viewpoint .

 

[Nickyjo]

Let’s look at some different forms of labor and how they affect the millions of Americans who buy food every day.


Best: Full automation. GPS guided tractors and similar tech bring labor costs per unit close to zero. That drives food prices down, making it affordable hundreds of millions of Americans.

I worked with the farm workers union a few years in the 1970s. Great learning experience for this city-raised kid. Full automation is not doable for some crops. A grower told me that if people would accept packets of table grapes like they do say, blueberries, machines could pick the grapes. But consumers prefer the bunches of grapes that require humans. In addition, Thompson seedless are often “girdled,” that is, farm laborers have to use a special knife to cut a gash in the trunks of the vines, to keep the grapes a bit fatter by having vines retain water. And all vines have to be pruned by hand, by farm workers who know what they are doing. In addition, tree crops and vines are “thinned” by hand, with workers creating more space for say, peaches to get fatter by thinning the bunches of small fruit that grow side by side on branches.

Good: Cheap migrant labor. Labor costs are higher than automation but still relatively low. When automation isn’t feasible, cheap migrant labor helps keep food prices reasonable.

Farm labor costs for fruits and grapes are a small percentage of the final cost to the consumer. I believe that the much larger bigger costs are in transportation and stocking of produce.

Bad: Domestic labor at high wages. While Americans can do farm work, most aren’t willing to do it for low wages. When employers must pay significantly more, the cost per unit rises sharply. This can raise food prices to the point where many low-income consumers struggle to feed their families, forcing them to sacrifice other essentials just to eat.

Not really. See above comments.

Worst: Unionized labor monopolies. When unions control the labor supply, they can and will demand inflated wages and benefits. In industries with tight margins like agriculture, that means soaring labor costs and a major spike in consumer prices. The result? Food would become unaffordable for hundreds of millions of Americans.

Unions made this country great. End of story.

Of course, not every increase in labor cost results in a one to one increase in consumer prices. The degree to which costs are passed on depends on price elasticity - how sensitive food demand is to price changes. But for something essential like food, where demand is relatively inelastic, higher input costs will hit consumers very hard.

This pattern doesn’t just apply to agriculture - it’s a general rule across all industries. When labor costs are artificially inflated, prices rise, and consumers lose.

And remember, we are all consumers.

As are workers.

Having said all the above, I assume that some things have changed in the years since I worked in the field. But in general, row crops and produce cannot be grown without the individual human decisions when pruning, thinning, and harvesting, as field crops like wheat and oats can.