Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by law

[What if...?]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Anybody got a line on the CYA factor?

Anybodys head gonna roll or bank account get taxed if Zimmerman is guilty of killing Martin?!

 

[Thorgasm]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

If Zimmerman has a good lawyer, justice will prevail. If it does, Zimmerman will emerge the winner because all he has to do is change his name and move to AL or AZ, racist states where the establishment doesn't care if people of color are shot.

If he wins he could just stay in Florida apparently. :lol:

 

[mac]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

wrong

you come up to me and ask me questions i do not want to answer i can walk away, ignore you, tell you to screw off. but significantly, i do not assault you physically, giving you cause to need to defend yourself

you come up to me and ask me questions and then i assault you physically because i do not like that you dared confront me with your questions, then the person i assaulted may very well defend himself ... and if he is carrying, with lethal force

the question about who initiated the physical assault is key to determining which of these guys was at fault

unfortunately, we only have one surviving eyewitness. he says that he was attacked and responded in self defense

i keep looking to those of you who believe differently to explain why that statement by zimmerman - that he acted in self defense - is not possible

Why do you think the dispatcher immediately told him not to follow Tray? Put everything you said into context of the situation that actually happened. A seventeen year old was approached by an adult at night. The calls he made to 911 prior to approaching Tray clearly establish Zimm's frame of mind. He clearly thought the kid was guilty of something, so it's not hard to envision the manner in which he approached Tray. A manner that would easily be construed by Tray as malicious. If someone approached you on the street in an open and cheerful manner you're right, there would be no cause to defend yourself. If someone approached you on the street in an aggressive manner then you may feel the need to defend yourself.

While I agree that he is innocent until proven guilty, Zimmerman's actions clearly justify an investigation. That investigation was apparently not going to happen until people got irate about the situation. That's unjust.

 

[solletica]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

"You aren't threatening my life so I should be able to kill you legally." is 100% logical? :rofl

Absolutely. When it is legal to do so, it's much more convenient for the shooter since he/she doesn't have to mop up or fudge evidence post-mortem.

And yes, lethal force against a physical threat make sense if one other condition is met: there are no other long-term consequences to the shooter (i. e. possibility of subsequent retaliation).

With only a minute likelihood of retaliation, a threat of injury to one's physical self is sufficient justification to use lethal force against whomever (or whatever) it is that could injure you, even if that injury is unlikely to be fatal.

Why get hurt if you don't have to?

 

[Ben K.]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Betcha no one considered what would have happened if the neighborhood watchman had been Black instead of Latino.

Pray tell, what would have happened?

 

[solletica]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

If he wins he could just stay in Florida apparently. :lol:

Maybe. But he could end up being shot by another Black dude who's out for revenge.

 

[What if...?]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Based on the available evidence, it appears the shooter acted appropriately, because the Black dude did not just walk by but rather (apparently) punched the shooter in the face.

Anytime a reasonably fit adult punches another in the face, the potential threat to the punchee escalates because a fight will ensue unless the punchee quickly terminates the fight (i. e. by shooting the puncher).

Through his car window? Does he have a sharp head rest?

 

[Thorgasm]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Maybe. But he could end up being shot by another Black dude who's out for revenge self-defense.

Fixed it for ya.

Isn't that what Zimmerman was out for? Revenge?

"These assholes always get away."

 

[solletica]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Fixed it for ya.

Isn't that what Zimmerman was out for? Revenge?

"These assholes always get away."

His motivation is irrelevant. The only relevant factors as to whether it made sense for him to shoot are

1) Was the potential threat (lethal or non-lethal) to the shooter's physical safety big? It was, because the dude bloodied his nose, meaning a fight would've otherwise ensued.

2) Was the likelihood of long-term consequences of shooting (i. e. subsequent retaliation) small? It was, because the existing Florida law would protect him, as it did. Now all he really has to do is move out of town and change his name to escape retaliation.

 

[Wiggen]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

only because that is all we have as an eyewitness account
certainly it could be self serving since zimmerman is the only surviving eyewitness
but it also may be true
the burden of proof is on the state to show that zimmerman's claim of self defense is not a possible reality

So in other words, if A shoots B dead, then A's version of events must be true because he's the only witness. Got it.

 

[Thunder]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I can understand folks defending Trayvan, as he is just a kid..and is now dead.

But with the evidence that we KNOW about Zimmermann, how could one be on his side?

 

[Wiggen]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Maybe. But he could end up being shot by another Black dude who's out for revenge.

He could also be hit by a meteor.

 

[solletica]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I can understand folks defending Trayvan, as he is just a kid..and is now dead.

But with the evidence that we KNOW about Zimmermann, how could one be on his side?

He had a bloody nose, so most likely the Black dude punched him.

 

[Wiggen]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I can understand folks defending Trayvan, as he is just a kid..and is now dead.

But with the evidence that we KNOW about Zimmermann, how could one be on his side?

Because he's white and his victim isn't.

 

[Wiggen]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

there can be no winner
we have one life lost and two families in grief

let's hope that justice prevails

There is absolutley no indication that Zimmerman or his family are experiencing any 'grief' at all. To put them in the same category as Martin's family is ludicrous.

 

[justabubba]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I can understand folks defending Trayvan, as he is just a kid..and is now dead.

But with the evidence that we KNOW about Zimmermann, how could one be on his side?

it's not a question of being on one side or the other
it's a matter of expecting justice to be administered

 

[solletica]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

He could also be hit by a meteor.

Illogical. Chances of meteor strike are significantly small compared to retaliation by a Black individual in this case.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I can understand folks defending Trayvan, as he is just a kid..and is now dead.

But with the evidence that we KNOW about Zimmermann, how could one be on his side?

Debate Politics isn't a news feed, after all. When stories like this go up, what else would one expect? If we all thought alike? Where's the fun in that? And how do we learn?

 

[justabubba]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

There is absolutley no indication that Zimmerman or his family are experiencing any 'grief' at all. To put them in the same category as Martin's family is ludicrous.

was the loss to the kid's family greater. yes, in all likelihood
but there is grief all around
we do know that zimmerman moved to an undisclosed location
this matter is not behind him - and his family

 

[solletica]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Pray tell, what would have happened?

Nothing would've happened.

Blacks are only protesting because the victim was Black and the shooter was not.

 

[Thunder]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Nothing would've happened.

Blacks are only protesting because the victim was Black and the shooter was not.

one more of their brethren has been gunned down in cold blood, possibly by a racist vigalante.

can you blaim them for being pissed?

 

[liblady]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Nothing would've happened.

Blacks are only protesting because the victim was Black and the shooter was not.

that's bs. i'm white and think this was a copmpletely bad shooting, and should be investigated.

 

[mac]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Nothing would've happened.

Blacks are only protesting because the victim was Black and the shooter was not.

No...people are protesting because a person was shot and the police weren't even investigating the shooting.

 

[Ben K.]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Nothing would've happened.

Blacks are only protesting because the victim was Black and the shooter was not.

Look, one can make baseless assumptions all they want, we don't really know. While we're trading races, if it were a white victim what would have happened?

 

[Wiggen]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

was the loss to the kid's family greater. yes, in all likelihood
but there is grief all around
we do know that zimmerman moved to an undisclosed location
this matter is not behind him - and his family

I hope like hell this 'matter' isn't behind him. So far he appears to have gotten away with pre-meditated first degree murder. It's a darn shame he and his family have experienced a little inconvenience. I hope he experiences a hell of a lot more.