Faith Leaders: ‘A World Without Planned Parenthood Would Be Disastrous’ [W:220]

[OKgrannie]

Umm... "Abortion" is english, no? They spoke Aramaic, and Greek. The bible says an unborn child is a human being, so "aborting" it is murder, see? You can try to justify sin by claiming the bible doesn't use an English word, but the evidence is staring you in your heart.

That is YOUR interpretation.

 

[OKgrannie]

I know you're smart enough to understand, so the obfuscation by both you and the abortion lobby is only presented to confuse or mislead those too stupid to understand or care.

I'll make it simple:

1. I start a program that provides disadvantaged neighbourhood kids with opportunities to play sports in the community.

2. I collect donations to assist in the costs of running those sports programs so that the kids either don't have to pay anything or have to pay very little.

3. I collect $1 million and I'm able to provide a good program, but not a full program, and so some of the less popular sports get left out until donations increase.

4. Along comes Minnie Big Bucks and she wants to help but she says she doesn't like soccer so she'll donate 50% of the cost of running all the other sports as long as no money goes to funding soccer.

5. We're delighted, because now, with that donation of say $500,000 we can fund all the other sports adequately and we can now funnel $250,000 of our $1 million in donations directly into soccer, greatly increasing the number of kids who can play soccer and not using Minnie Big Bucks' dollars one bit to fund soccer.

If you can't appreciate how federal subsidies or direct, full payments, for one type of service offered by Planned Parenthood frees up donations to fully fund or subsidize abortions then you're just not being honest.

Except that's not how it works with PP. PP provides services, services that use equipment, materials and personnel to provide, so PP has already spent money to provide those services, then, THEN PP is reimbursed by Medicaid for those services. The money PP gets from Medicaid is already spent to provide those services so it cannot be shifted to cover other expenses.

 

[countryboy]

That is YOUR interpretation.

And what is YOUR interpretation? Chapter and verse please.

 

[OKgrannie]

It's like the US constitution - there's no mention there either about abortion as a right.

And there's no mention about it being a criminal act in spite of the fact that the founders had to know abortion was happening. The most logical conclusion: it wasn't an important issue for them, or they didn't think it should be criminalized.

 

[OKgrannie]

And what is YOUR interpretation? Chapter and verse please.

LOL, you want an interpretation of something that isn't there? There is no mention of abortion in the Bible, NONE. There's nothing to interpret.

 

[countryboy]

LOL, you want an interpretation of something that isn't there? There is no mention of abortion in the Bible, NONE. There's nothing to interpret.

But there is clearly mention of personhood within the womb.

Furthermore, if abortion is not mentioned, how can it become a religious "tenet"?

 

[OKgrannie]

But there is clearly mention of personhood within the womb.

Furthermore, if abortion is not mentioned, how can it become a religious "tenet"?

Any religious can adopt whatever "tenets" they choose whether it is mentioned in the Bible or not, and most of those "tenets" are laden with "interpretation." "Personhood" within the womb is still an interpretation. Religious tenets or interpretations are not a basis for law in this country. If you are promoting religious prohibitions as a matter of what people SHOULD do, that's one thing, but if you are promoting them as a basis for criminalization, that's a whole other ball of wax.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Except that's not how it works with PP. PP provides services, services that use equipment, materials and personnel to provide, so PP has already spent money to provide those services, then, THEN PP is reimbursed by Medicaid for those services. The money PP gets from Medicaid is already spent to provide those services so it cannot be shifted to cover other expenses.

Maybe you should have a discussion with Minnie - she clearly states that PP does provide free or subsidized services to women who can't afford them and has an "abortion fund" to help poor women pay for abortions if they can't afford the costs themselves.

You guys need to get your stories straight before you take the show on the road.

 

[CanadaJohn]

And there's no mention about it being a criminal act in spite of the fact that the founders had to know abortion was happening. The most logical conclusion: it wasn't an important issue for them, or they didn't think it should be criminalized.

No - the founding fathers, I'm sure, had no idea how degenerate 21st century society would be.

 

[Scrabaholic]

The Bible does not specifically mention the word abortion, but it has a number of significant things to say about unborn children. These Biblical statements indicate that the unborn are persons. Therefore, abortion is wrong since it is killing a human being. A simplified form of our argument is the following:

There is nothing in this saying that a woman terminating her own pregnancy is forbidden.

BTW, when you copy and paste, you're supposed to give attribution to the source.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Umm... "Abortion" is english, no? They spoke Aramaic, and Greek. The bible says an unborn child is a human being, so "aborting" it is murder, see? You can try to justify sin by claiming the bible doesn't use an English word, but the evidence is staring you in your heart.

No, murder is an ILLEGAL killing of a human being. If it's legal, it CANNOT be murder.

BTW, where does the Bible say a zef is a human being?

 

[year2late]

That's just silly, I'm just going by, oh I don't know.....THE BIBLE. :roll:

BTW, the "extremist" Muslim would be the ones actually following the Koran.

The fact that you do not seem to understand that DIFFERENT Christian sects interpret the Bible differently is not surprising to me.

And for Muslims.....do you think ALL Muslims interpret the Koran the same way?

 

[year2late]

No, murder is an ILLEGAL killing of a human being. If it's legal, it CANNOT be murder.

BTW, where does the Bible say a zef is a human being?

In the Bible, what does it say about punishment if a pregnant woman is harmed and the pregnancy is lost at any stage?

Hmmmm....

 

[JFish123]

Faith Leaders: ‘A World Without Planned Parenthood Would Be Disastrous’

That is YOUR interpretation.

That's the Bible. I let it speak for itself. I try not to let my feelings on issues distort or deny what it says.

 

[JFish123]

Faith Leaders: ‘A World Without Planned Parenthood Would Be Disastrous’

There is nothing in this saying that a woman terminating her own pregnancy is forbidden.

BTW, when you copy and paste, you're supposed to give attribution to the source.

The Bible says an unborn child is a human being. And terminating a humans life is murder. If a woman is Terminating her pregnancy... What would that mean again? It's a simple 1, 2, 3.

 

[JFish123]

No, murder is an ILLEGAL killing of a human being. If it's legal, it CANNOT be murder.

BTW, where does the Bible say a zef is a human being?

So if someone made killing a human adult legal, it wouldn't be murder then huh. I do believe it was legal to kill Jews in the 1940's in Germany. Did that make it ok? Does making something legal automatically make it morally good? It's just word games-semantics. It's still taking a human life which is wrong. Murder in the Bible is taking another's life. The bible also states that the unborn are alive and human. You terminate them, it's murder in the strictest biblical sense.

 

[bubbabgone]

And you are mistaken.

The RCRC is comprised of over 40 Jewish and Christian denominations and faith groups who educate and promote reproductive choice.

... such as the Unitarian Universalist Association, Catholics for Choice, Jewish Women International, and DignityUSA, Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice ...
not all exactly religious denominations are they.
That Rev. Deb Haffner in the link from #1 has a piece in HuffPo with a link that points to what she says is a list of "At least fifteen religious denominations have passed policies supporting access to legal and safe abortion."
Well I took a look at most of the denominations at her link and they do nothing of the kind.
Makes you wonder how often some people say things hoping no one checks.

 

[dpcal]

Show where I said that.

In early August, members of the U.S. Congress began calling for the federal government to stop giving financial support to Planned Parenthood. The movement was spurred largely by right-wing religious and political leaders outraged over a series of highly edited — and possibly illegal — videos accusing one of the country’s largest family planning providers of profiting off of the sale of fetal tissue.

Have I misinterpreted what you meant by that statement?

 

[minnie616]

Maybe you should have a discussion with Minnie - she clearly states that PP does provide free or subsidized services to women who can't afford them and has an "abortion fund" to help poor women pay for abortions if they can't afford the costs themselves.

You guys need to get your stories straight before you take the show on the road.

I clearly said PP does Not subsidize abortions.
Fund abortion now is private donations.

They are not nor have ever been a part of Planned Parenthood.

What is an abortion fund?

An abortion fund is a group of people who will help you pay for your abortion when you can’t afford it.

 

[Scrabaholic]

We can always count on granny to fight for the right to rip live children from the womb, and dash their little heads against the nearest tree, yay! :roll:

Please show where Okgrannie has said anything of the sort.

 

[CanadaJohn]

I clearly said PP does Not subsidize abortions.
Fund abortion now is private donations.

They are not nor have ever been a part of Planned Parenthood.

Oh, FFS, are you going to try that? Seriously?

The utter dishonesty of the pro-abortion crowd in this thread is breathtaking.

 

[minnie616]

... such as the Unitarian Universalist Association, Catholics for Choice, Jewish Women International, and DignityUSA, Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice ...
not all exactly religious denominations are they.
That Rev. Deb Haffner in the link from #1 has a piece in HuffPo with a link that points to what she says is a list of "At least fifteen religious denominations have passed policies supporting access to legal and safe abortion."
Well I took a look at most of the denominations at her link and they do nothing of the kind.
Makes you wonder how often some people say things hoping no one checks.

The denominations I posted have official and long standing pro choice positions.

Who is pro-choice and religious? Denominations with official and long-standing pro-choice positions include the Presbyterian Church (USA), the Episcopal Church, the United Methodist Church, the United Church of Christ, the Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations, and Reform and Conservative Judaism.

These organizations have a diversity of views about abortion and recognize it as a morally complex decision that must be made by the person most affected--the woman.

Among religious groups, the pro-choice position is nuanced, recognizing that most people believe abortion--as well as bearing children-are matters for individual conscience, not government or religious mandate. Pro-choice denominations don't seek to impose their views on others or to make them law. They recognize that in our pluralistic society, politicians must not be allowed to impose laws about childbearing based on any particular belief about when life begins. The notion that life begins at the moment of conception is a belief held by some, but not all, religious groups.

Read more at The Biblical Basis for Being Pro-Choice: Bible, abortion, Christians, religion - Beliefnet.com

 

[minnie616]

Oh, FFS, are you going to try that? Seriously?

The utter dishonesty of the pro-abortion crowd in this thread is breathtaking.

Look up the link.
The donations are mostly individuals who donate to an abortion fund. Fund abortion now . Org. Is just one of a few ( or several )

 

[Scrabaholic]

Have I misinterpreted what you meant by that statement?

That was not my statement. It's part of the article I linked to.

YOU said:

Quote Originally Posted by dpcal View Post
Why is it
Quote Originally Posted by dpcal View Post
Why is it "right wing" and "religious" to believe that a fetus is a human life? As you point out there are religious organizations that support abortion. Your point is what? That religious organizations that oppose abortion are right wing and those that are in favor aren't?As you point out there are religious organizations that support abortion. Your point is what? That religious organizations that oppose abortion are right wing and those that are in favor aren't?

What you quoted isn't saying that it's ""right wing" and "religious" to believe that a fetus is a human life" or that all "religious organizations that oppose abortion are right wing and those that are in favor aren't" .....what it is saying is that the movement to defund PP was spurred largely by them (right wing and religious). Reading Comprehension 101.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Look up the link.
The donations are mostly individuals who donate to an abortion fund. Fund abortion now . Org. Is just one of a few ( or several )

Hmmmm, I wonder how a poor woman who enters Planned Parenthood looking to get an abortion happens to get in touch with "Fund Abortion Now.Org". Do they have a kiosk in the front lobby? Maybe convenient flyers that the helpful PP staff distribute? Maybe PP has the abortion funders on speed dial for ease of connection to the facilitators?

But no, PP has nothing to do with donations going to fund abortions that take place in PP facilities.

Nothing to see here folks - ignore that man behind the curtain.