Fair Tax?

[rickc]

Here is an alternate plan for a fair tax.

First $50,000 tax free

All income, earned and unearned, taxed at the same rate. All deductions eliminated.

Social Security and Medicare and all other payroll taxes eliminated. Funds come from the general fund.

The tax rate is set as to what is required to balance the federal budget. If spending goes down your taxes go down. If congress spends more money your taxes go up.

Federal withholding eliminated. Quarterly every American writes a check to the IRS for their estimated federal income tax. That way every American sees what taxes are costing them. May bring about accountability in our elected officials.

Needs a little fleshing out as to how to tax those who choose to hide their assets offshore. At the very least any income from investments or commerce in the U.S. should be taxed.

 

[gdgyva]

So if you dont collect from people while at their job, you really believe they are all going to write you a check?

How are you going to deal with business owners?

I had gross receipts of over 500k last year, but after payrolls, insurance, mortgage, utilities, maintenance, and such....the net is a LOT smaller

Your base idea isnt bad.....but it needs a lot of refining and assistance

 

[Blue Dog]

Interesting premise.

 

[rickc]

So if you dont collect from people while at their job, you really believe they are all going to write you a check?

How are you going to deal with business owners?

I had gross receipts of over 500k last year, but after payrolls, insurance, mortgage, utilities, maintenance, and such....the net is a LOT smaller

Your base idea isnt bad.....but it needs a lot of refining and assistance

People pay their mortgage and other bills now. This is just another bill. I can assure you nobody wants trouble with the IRS. Might take a little time for people to adjust. I want people to really see what taxes are costing them. Salaried people could receive a statement from their employer as to what they owe. Could use a system much like businesses.

Business owners? They should already be doing it. Businesses that have profits flow through to the owners would certainly be handled differently than corporations. Corporate taxes are another animal. Obviously this needs reform too.

 

[Individual]

Here is an alternate plan for a fair tax.

First $50,000 tax free

All income, earned and unearned, taxed at the same rate. All deductions eliminated.

Social Security and Medicare and all other payroll taxes eliminated. Funds come from the general fund.

I'd go with a 15.3% tax rate on the 1st $50K which would total a max of $7,650.
I'd also retain the progressive tax rate.
20.0% on next $50K $10,000 $17,650 max tax
25.0% on next $100K $25,000 $42,650 max tax
30.0% on next $200K $60,000 $102,650 max tax
35.0% on all over $400K

The tax rate is set as to what is required to balance the federal budget. If spending goes down your taxes go down. If congress spends more money your taxes go up.

Federal withholding eliminated. Quarterly every American writes a check to the IRS for their estimated federal income tax. That way every American sees what taxes are costing them. May bring about accountability in our elected officials.

Needs a little fleshing out as to how to tax those who choose to hide their assets offshore. At the very least any income from investments or commerce in the U.S. should be taxed.

 

[Individual]

So if you dont collect from people while at their job, you really believe they are all going to write you a check?

How are you going to deal with business owners?

I had gross receipts of over 500k last year, but after payrolls, insurance, mortgage, utilities, maintenance, and such....the net is a LOT smaller

Your base idea isnt bad.....but it needs a lot of refining and assistance

Some suggestions might help.

 

[Individual]

Interesting premise.

Anything to add?

 

[Individual]

Here is an alternate plan for a fair tax.

First $50,000 tax free

All income, earned and unearned, taxed at the same rate. All deductions eliminated.

Social Security and Medicare and all other payroll taxes eliminated. Funds come from the general fund.

The tax rate is set as to what is required to balance the federal budget. If spending goes down your taxes go down. If congress spends more money your taxes go up.

Federal withholding eliminated. Quarterly every American writes a check to the IRS for their estimated federal income tax. That way every American sees what taxes are costing them. May bring about accountability in our elected officials.

Needs a little fleshing out as to how to tax those who choose to hide their assets offshore. At the very least any income from investments or commerce in the U.S. should be taxed.

So if you dont collect from people while at their job, you really believe they are all going to write you a check?

How are you going to deal with business owners?

I had gross receipts of over 500k last year, but after payrolls, insurance, mortgage, utilities, maintenance, and such....the net is a LOT smaller

Your base idea isnt bad.....but it needs a lot of refining and assistance

Interesting premise.

This thread looked promising, are we just going to sit back and let it die?

 

[gdgyva]

I'd go with a 15.3% tax rate on the 1st $50K which would total a max of $7,650.
I'd also retain the progressive tax rate.
20.0% on next $50K $10,000 $17,650 max tax
25.0% on next $100K $25,000 $42,650 max tax
30.0% on next $200K $60,000 $102,650 max tax
35.0% on all over $400K

this wasnt bad......copied from Individual

but here are my adjustments
0-40,000 in income.....5% tax.......just so everyone has a stake in the game
40,001-60000.....18% tax
60,001-80000.... 23% tax
80,001-100k....29% tax
100-250k....35% tax
250k-1m.....40% tax
over 1m.....50% tax

This must also come with a corp tax of 27%

And a congressional mandate of a balanced budget.....you only get to spend what you have as revenues

We have a spending problem.....this will address some of the revenue, but until we address the spending nothing will change

 

[Individual]

I'd go with a 15.3% tax rate on the 1st $50K which would total a max of $7,650.
I'd also retain the progressive tax rate.
20.0% on next $50K $10,000 $17,650 max tax
25.0% on next $100K $25,000 $42,650 max tax
30.0% on next $200K $60,000 $102,650 max tax
35.0% on all over $400K

this wasnt bad......copied from Individual

but here are my adjustments
0-40,000 in income.....5% tax.......just so everyone has a stake in the game
40,001-60000.....18% tax
60,001-80000.... 23% tax
80,001-100k....29% tax
100-250k....35% tax
250k-1m.....40% tax
over 1m.....50% tax

This must also come with a corp tax of 27%

And a congressional mandate of a balanced budget.....you only get to spend what you have as revenues

We have a spending problem.....this will address some of the revenue, but until we address the spending nothing will change

I was going along with some of the OP.
Essentially, those with a total income of less than $50K would be taxed the full FICA tax rate 15.3%.
Instead of the employer paying 50% of the FICA tax a mandatory 9% pay increase would be made.
Taxable income would be the sum total of wages, salaries, dividends, interest, capital gains, etc., and there would be no deductions at all.
Each individual with taxable income would be required to file and pay taxes on their individual income.

I feel a 35% maximum tax rate would suffice and not provide a reason to drive executive pay increases much higher.
Corporate/business taxes are another issue needing attention, but right now I would remain focused on individual taxes.

As for the spending issue, IMO, the 16th and 17th amendments are the primary impediment to achieving a solution.

 

[Jay59]

Defining the term income for tax purposes is difficult.

At some points, it gets to be like quantum physics.

 

[Individual]

Defining the term income for tax purposes is difficult.

At some points, it gets to be like quantum physics.

It need not be difficult.
Taxable income would be the sum total of wages, salaries, dividends, interest, capital gains, etc., and there would be no deductions at all.

 

[Jay59]

It need not be difficult.

This is not a needs-to-be situation. From a legal standpoint, defining income is difficult.

Taxable income would be the sum total of wages, salaries, dividends, interest, capital gains, etc., and there would be no deductions at all.

Then you are going to miss a lot of what people want to tax.

Also, Municipal bonds have to be tax-free. The federal government lacks the right to tax them. It's in the Constitution.

 

[independentusa]

Here is an alternate plan for a fair tax.

First $50,000 tax free

All income, earned and unearned, taxed at the same rate. All deductions eliminated.

Social Security and Medicare and all other payroll taxes eliminated. Funds come from the general fund.

The tax rate is set as to what is required to balance the federal budget. If spending goes down your taxes go down. If congress spends more money your taxes go up.

Federal withholding eliminated. Quarterly every American writes a check to the IRS for their estimated federal income tax. That way every American sees what taxes are costing them. May bring about accountability in our elected officials.

Needs a little fleshing out as to how to tax those who choose to hide their assets offshore. At the very least any income from investments or commerce in the U.S. should be taxed.

Why include SS and Medicare? If you do, then do you pay back to people all that they have paid into the fund including the 3 trillion dollars the government has borrowed from the fund? And do you continue the tax on the businesses that have helped pay for those programs? Lost of questions, but no answers in your OP. Seems to me, just another way for you to end SS and Medicare or cut it so those programs are no longer helpful to the elderly.

 

[rickc]

Why include SS and Medicare? If you do, then do you pay back to people all that they have paid into the fund including the 3 trillion dollars the government has borrowed from the fund? And do you continue the tax on the businesses that have helped pay for those programs? Lost of questions, but no answers in your OP. Seems to me, just another way for you to end SS and Medicare or cut it so those programs are no longer helpful to the elderly.

Oh no. Both programs will still remain. The only difference is where the money comes from. Our congress has always raided the social security fund when there were surpluses anyway. Why not just pay social security and Medicare from the general fund? Then Republicans won't be able to refuse the funding fixes needed and won't be able to say the fund is going bankrupt.

Eventually we will have universal health care similar to Medicare anyway.

 

[Individual]

This is not a needs-to-be situation. From a legal standpoint, defining income is difficult.


Then you are going to miss a lot of what people want to tax.

Also, Municipal bonds have to be tax-free. The federal government lacks the right to tax them. It's in the Constitution.

Clarify what you're claiming to be the difficulty from a legal standpoint in defining income.
What am I missing that people want to tax?
Things which are defined to be tax-free would not be taxed.

 

[reflechissez]

This is not a needs-to-be situation. From a legal standpoint, defining income is difficult.


Then you are going to miss a lot of what people want to tax.

Also, Municipal bonds have to be tax-free. The federal government lacks the right to tax them. It's in the Constitution.

Some municipal bonds are taxable.

 

[Jay59]

Clarify what you're claiming to be the difficulty from a legal standpoint in defining income.
What am I missing that people want to tax?

Perqs, for one.

Is it income if the job provides housing? A car? Driver? Entertainment allowance? All of these are normal parts of employment contracts.

Things which are defined to be tax-free would not be taxed.

What is defined as tax-free?

Muni-bonds of course. What about life insurance proceeds? Gifts? Stock and real estate appreciation?

The tax laws are arcane because this is a field where words are very finely diced and carefully divided.

Some municipal bonds are taxable.

Not direct ones.

 

[Individual]

Perqs, for one.

Is it income if the job provides housing? A car? Driver? Entertainment allowance? All of these are normal parts of employment contracts.

To answer each of the above questions, I would have to ask How is it being done currently?

What is defined as tax-free?

Muni-bonds of course. What about life insurance proceeds? Gifts? Stock and real estate appreciation?

The tax laws are arcane because this is a field where words are very finely diced and carefully divided..

All of that remains open for discussion.

 

[independentusa]

Oh no. Both programs will still remain. The only difference is where the money comes from. Our congress has always raided the social security fund when there were surpluses anyway. Why not just pay social security and Medicare from the general fund? Then Republicans won't be able to refuse the funding fixes needed and won't be able to say the fund is going bankrupt.

Eventually we will have universal health care similar to Medicare anyway.

he problem is that the GOP will cut the programs until they are basically not there. They will use the money for tax cuts for the wealthy and businesses.

 

[rickc]

he problem is that the GOP will cut the programs until they are basically not there. They will use the money for tax cuts for the wealthy and businesses.

They are certainly trying now and have in the past.

 

[Jay59]

To answer each of the above questions, I would have to ask How is it being done currently?

Where do you think loopholes live?

This stuff is complex. Many loopholes exist because Congress closed a different loophole.

All of that remains open for discussion.

Then you have not even the basis for discussion.

 

[Individual]

Where do you think loopholes live?

This stuff is complex. Many loopholes exist because Congress closed a different loophole.


Then you have not even the basis for discussion.

So far only one person has attempted to engage in a discussion, looking to find a reasoned solution to the issue of a way to apply taxation fairly.
I don't have ALL the answers to ALL the questions, and if you see problems with what I have suggested or things I have not mentioned, then that would provide you with a basis for discussion.

"You either have to be part of the solution, or you're going to be part of the problem." - Eldridge Cleaver

 

[Jay59]

So far only one person has attempted to engage in a discussion, looking to find a reasoned solution to the issue of a way to apply taxation fairly.

That would not be you.

You don't even have a basic plan.

I don't have ALL the answers to ALL the questions, and if you see problems with what I have suggested or things I have not mentioned, then that would provide you with a basis for discussion.

Do you have the answer to any of the questions?

"You either have to be part of the solution, or you're going to be part of the problem." - Eldridge Cleaver

It's a clever truism but it only means that doing nothing is a decision.

We have met the enemy and he is us.
Pogo

 

[Individual]

That would not be you.

You don't even have a basic plan.

That's the purpose off having a discussion, to develop a plan.

Do you have the answer to any of the questions?

When I do, I present them.

It's a clever truism but it only means that doing nothing is a decision.

We have met the enemy and he is us.
Pogo

And it appears your decision is to do nothing.