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Fair Tax?

America's problem is you don't pay enough taxes AND have far too much waste and corruption in the system that pushes up costs. The nr. 1 place being healthcare. That alone is responsible for a huge portion of your problems as you allow medical cartels to dictate prices.

But instead of looking at the tax rate, you need to look at the effective tax rate and here you will see that especially the rich and big corporations don't pay a dime in taxes. Hell many get money back.

So deductions are the main problem at the moment on the tax side.

Another issue is what Americans see as middle class. This of course depends on where you are, but a person earning 250k ain't middle class ...they be rich.

The average is around 55k a year. Anyone earning 5 times that is rich, not middle class. Anyone earning 400+k is very rich.

Add in the fact, that the wealthy don't earn a wage income, but earn most of their income via the stock market..which is taxed way lower, the frankly the whole system is rigged for the rich against the poor and middle class.
I think most Americans know what the problems are, but the even greater problem is trying to start a discussion on how to fix the issue in a bipartisan way.
 
I think most Americans know what the problems are, but the even greater problem is trying to start a discussion on how to fix the issue in a bipartisan way.
Tbh I don't think they do. More than often in the tax discussion on these boards and in real life, many think that European high taxes are on everyone and not only on the last Euro earned over a certain amount.

Also many Americans don't understand the difference between tax % on paper and effective tax rate and those 2 differ hugely in the US due to deductions.
 
I think most Americans know what the problems are, but the even greater problem is trying to start a discussion on how to fix the issue in a bipartisan way.
There is no fixing the issue in a bipartisan way. Republicans want oligarchy, Democrats want democracy. They're not compatible. That doesn't mean there isn't bipartisan agreement on some things, but not the issue of how to fix taxation.
 
Average income is 54k, so you would be giving deductions to most of the US population and probably crushing the tax income even more.

And let's be honest here. The wealthy earn most of their income via the stock market, which is taxed at most by 20%. And that is if they sell. In most cases they just get a loan, which they can deduct from taxes and use that to live off.
Yes, those who earn the least would get the largest deductions, and those who earn the most would get none.
Money earned on the stock market would become taxed the same as all other sources of income. Loans would not be deductible.
And if we ever reach some form of agreement on income tax, I will present some changes related to the stock market and corporate taxation.
So let's try and remain on one topic at a time. And yes, I know they can be related.
 
Tbh I don't think they do. More than often in the tax discussion on these boards and in real life, many think that European high taxes are on everyone and not only on the last Euro earned over a certain amount.

Also many Americans don't understand the difference between tax % on paper and effective tax rate and those 2 differ hugely in the US due to deductions.
TBH, I have no interest in how Europeans are taxed.
In my progressive tax plan there are no deductions at all.
In my flat tax plan only those earning $200,000 or less would have a deduction, though I prefer my former plan.
 
Since October, the USD has devalued about 18% so unless your bank pays no interest at all, your mattress is earning you nothing at all.
You cut off the "if".

As in "if" you're gonna argue at least do it honestly.
 
Roughly on average about 30% of the average states revenues come from federal funds.
So if you cut the federal tax revenues are not the states going to simply increase state taxes to offset?
Of course they will so in the long you have not solved the issue.
 
Roughly on average about 30% of the average states revenues come from federal funds.
So if you cut the federal tax revenues are not the states going to simply increase state taxes to offset?
Of course they will so in the long you have not solved the issue.
Where did you see Federal tax revenues being cut?
 
Where do you see it going up or even staying the same?
What I had posted would reduce taxes on the lowest income earners and raise taxes on the highest income earners.
Check it out comparing the current years tax tables to mine for a low, middle, and high income earner. And remember there are no adjustments or deductions, simply taxation of income regardless of source.
 
This is a great thread topic. But shouldn't we start with a definition of "fair"?

Everyone pays the same percentage?
People who can afford more pay more? How much more?
Do we adjust for the local cost of living?
Should taxes be commensurate with benefits received?
Should historical inequities in taxation be considered?
 
Here is an alternate plan for a fair tax.

First $50,000 tax free

All income, earned and unearned, taxed at the same rate. All deductions eliminated.

Social Security and Medicare and all other payroll taxes eliminated. Funds come from the general fund.

The tax rate is set as to what is required to balance the federal budget. If spending goes down your taxes go down. If congress spends more money your taxes go up.

Federal withholding eliminated. Quarterly every American writes a check to the IRS for their estimated federal income tax. That way every American sees what taxes are costing them. May bring about accountability in our elected officials.

Needs a little fleshing out as to how to tax those who choose to hide their assets offshore. At the very least any income from investments or commerce in the U.S. should be taxed.
 
This is a great thread topic. But shouldn't we start with a definition of "fair"?
I agree. As for the definition of "fair", perhaps the best we might do is strive to achieve a majority agreement as being rationally/reasonably acceptable.


Everyone pays the same percentage?
People who can afford more pay more? How much more?
Do we adjust for the local cost of living?
Should taxes be commensurate with benefits received?
Should historical inequities in taxation be considered?
1. No.
2. A necessity, which I addressed previously.
3. Only at State and local government level.
4. Should apply to Social Security and health care.
5. No.

Fairness, IMO, would be much easier to achieve with repeal of the 16th and 17th amendments, but I can work with what currently exists if I have to.
 
Here is an alternate plan for a fair tax.

First $50,000 tax free

All income, earned and unearned, taxed at the same rate. All deductions eliminated.

Social Security and Medicare and all other payroll taxes eliminated. Funds come from the general fund.

The tax rate is set as to what is required to balance the federal budget. If spending goes down your taxes go down. If congress spends more money your taxes go up.

Federal withholding eliminated. Quarterly every American writes a check to the IRS for their estimated federal income tax. That way every American sees what taxes are costing them. May bring about accountability in our elected officials.

Needs a little fleshing out as to how to tax those who choose to hide their assets offshore. At the very least any income from investments or commerce in the U.S. should be taxed.

1. If we're going to have an income tax then all income should be taxed. The 1st $50K should be taxed at the lowest rate, which I would make 15.3% for obvious reasons.
2. I totally agree with eliminating all deductions.
3. If Social Security and Medicare were to be funded from the general fund, that would be why the first tax bracket would be made 15.3%
4. Tax increases to balance the Federal budget would be applied as a flat percentage increase to each individuals tax, and each individual with taxable income would be required to file a tax return.
5. I would continue with withholding as it's easy to see how much tax is being paid each pay day and would require millions of people to send checks each quarter.
6. This thread could become a start in finding a reasonable solution.
 
This is a great thread topic.

Not really. It's a bit like discussing the rules of rape. Who is allowed to? How often? Using what methods? The whole topic is wrong. In this case, 'fair tax' is nothing but a phrase to 'recreate our tax system to benefit the wealthy even more'. Anything that comes out of it is with little doubt terrible. The better answer in both cases is, 'throw out the topic. No good comes of it.' Tax policy is a good topic, the fair tax not much. Like hoping the rape discussion leads to good.
 
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