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Fair Tax vs Trump's Tariffs: which is better for America?

Airyaman

Airyaman

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The Fair tax and plans similar to that aim to replace income taxes with consumption taxes. In some ways, they make sense because it allows those who don't normally pay federal taxes to be taxed. So people are basically taxed by what they decide to buy.

Trump wants to replace income taxes with tariffs, and he is doing it all alone. He is basically setting rates for each country. Goods and services from those countries coming into the US will get taxed at the border. He has not made a strong case that these tariffs can replace income taxes, let alone replace the lost revenue in the Big Ugly Bill. But he thinks he's a genius and we sit and watch.

So which one is better?

Defend your stance.
 
Airyaman said:
The Fair tax and plans similar to that aim to replace income taxes with consumption taxes. In some ways, they make sense because it allows those who don't normally pay federal taxes to be taxed. So people are basically taxed by what they decide to buy.

Trump wants to replace income taxes with tariffs, and he is doing it all alone. He is basically setting rates for each country. Goods and services from those countries coming into the US will get taxed at the border. He has not made a strong case that these tariffs can replace income taxes, let alone replace the lost revenue in the Big Ugly Bill. But he thinks he's a genius and we sit and watch.

So which one is better?

Defend your stance.
Click to expand...
First, Congress will never eliminate income taxes...no matter how much comes in from tariffs.

Second, Congress will never change to a Fair Tax. Period.

So your question is moot.

/thread
 
Mycroft said:
First, Congress will never eliminate income taxes...no matter how much comes in from tariffs.

Second, Congress will never change to a Fair Tax. Period.

So your question is moot.

/thread
Click to expand...
So you love those tariffs?
 
Mycroft said:
no matter how much comes in from tariffs
Click to expand...

You do realize you and I pay the tariffs not exporting country, right?
Last we spoke, you did not know this, hence my question.
 
Mycroft said:
I do.

They are having their intended effects.
Click to expand...
Raising prices, hurting low income Americans and NOT bringing manufacturing back is the intended effect?
 
Airyaman said:
The Fair tax and plans similar to that aim to replace income taxes with consumption taxes. In some ways, they make sense because it allows those who don't normally pay federal taxes to be taxed. So people are basically taxed by what they decide to buy.

Trump wants to replace income taxes with tariffs, and he is doing it all alone. He is basically setting rates for each country. Goods and services from those countries coming into the US will get taxed at the border. He has not made a strong case that these tariffs can replace income taxes, let alone replace the lost revenue in the Big Ugly Bill. But he thinks he's a genius and we sit and watch.

So which one is better?

Defend your stance.
Click to expand...

Tariff revenue is intended to supplement FIT revenue and the “fair tax” is intended to replace FIT revenue, thus it’s not an either/or choice.
 
aociswundumho said:
They only bring in about 100 billion per year. The income tax brings in 20x that amount.
Click to expand...
Not to mention that if the goal of tariffs is to onshore manufacturing, tariffs would disappear along with imports.
 
They're all ****ing terrible.

Flat tax, "Fair Tax", tariffs, the only taxation schemes that right wingers ever come up with are highly regressive and actually end up exploding the deficit anyway.
 
Any switch from the current progressive income tax to consumption tax is unacceptable. Consumption taxes (including tariffs) fall most heavily on the poorest in society.

Income taxes cut the poor a break and shift the load appropriately up the income spectrum.

Tariffs should be unconditionally and permanently cut to ZERO and no other consumption taxes should be considered.
 
The notion that a consumption tax can be imposed on the American people by the usurpation of Congressional powers is unconstitutional and that Congress is sitting back and letting it happen is an irresponsible abdication of their responsibilities. The issue of taxation and how it is accomplished rests solely with Congress and the Dems should make this a key campaign point.
 
A good thing about Fair Tax is it doesn't tax used items. This would reward/value higher quality in products and enhance a vibrant market for used/refurbished items. Thus it would discourage disposable products, reduce litter, and be better for the environment. There would also be a resurgence of the refurbishment industry, producing American jobs that AI would struggle with. It would benefit the reuse/repurpose market.
 
Peacenik said:
A good thing about Fair Tax is it doesn't tax used items. This would reward/value higher quality in products and enhance a vibrant market for used/refurbished items. Thus it would discourage disposable products, reduce litter, and be better for the environment. There would also be a resurgence of the refurbishment industry, producing American jobs that AI would struggle with. It would benefit the reuse/repurpose market.
Click to expand...

The Fair Tax rate (at least 23%) is higher than most tariff rates and is applied to all new goods and services.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That’s less than the current annual federal “budget” deficit for one month.
Click to expand...
Yes, but Trump's tariffs are only in effect for a few countries. Assuming Trump doesn't TACO tomorrow, tariffs on all countries will go into effect.
 
Airyaman said:
The Fair tax and plans similar to that aim to replace income taxes with consumption taxes. In some ways, they make sense because it allows those who don't normally pay federal taxes to be taxed. So people are basically taxed by what they decide to buy.

Trump wants to replace income taxes with tariffs, and he is doing it all alone. He is basically setting rates for each country. Goods and services from those countries coming into the US will get taxed at the border. He has not made a strong case that these tariffs can replace income taxes, let alone replace the lost revenue in the Big Ugly Bill. But he thinks he's a genius and we sit and watch.

So which one is better?

Defend your stance.
Click to expand...

Neither is better, both are regressive and put the most economically vulnerable in the crosshairs.

And to Trump's mouth on these things, there will never be enough tariff revenue to replace income taxes. For FY 2024, the federal government collected some $2.37 trillion from individuals, adding in corporate taxes and the total haul for the federal government is near $2.94 trillion. So far Trump and his TACO temper tantrum trade war has generated somewhere in the neighborhood of $100 billion range with a projection of near $300 billion by December (opinions and projections vary on this from CBO to the Trump fan clubs out there.)

Those numbers are no where near each other.

And to "fair tax," there is no such thing as fair tax but more an ideology for a mechanism of income tax that will never pass Congress.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The Fair Tax rate (at least 23%) is higher than most tariff rates and is applied to all new goods and services.
Click to expand...
Correct. But there would be no income tax, and a large rebate check issued to everyone yearly.
 
Airyaman said:
The Fair tax and plans similar to that aim to replace income taxes with consumption taxes. In some ways, they make sense because it allows those who don't normally pay federal taxes to be taxed. So people are basically taxed by what they decide to buy.

Trump wants to replace income taxes with tariffs, and he is doing it all alone. He is basically setting rates for each country. Goods and services from those countries coming into the US will get taxed at the border. He has not made a strong case that these tariffs can replace income taxes, let alone replace the lost revenue in the Big Ugly Bill. But he thinks he's a genius and we sit and watch.

So which one is better?

Defend your stance.
Click to expand...

Neither are good. Both are highly regressive and will harm the poor and middle class.
 
Mycroft said:
First, Congress will never eliminate income taxes...no matter how much comes in from tariffs.

Second, Congress will never change to a Fair Tax. Period.

So your question is moot.

/thread
Click to expand...

Yet you support the President unilaterally raising taxes on Americans.
 
Airyaman said:
Yes, but Trump's tariffs are only in effect for a few countries. Assuming Trump doesn't TACO tomorrow, tariffs on all countries will go into effect.
Click to expand...

OK, but (unlike the Fair Tax) tariff revenue was never intended to replace FIT revenue.
 
Airyaman said:
Yes, but Trump seems to thinks they will, at least for some parts of society.

www.foxnews.com

Trump says income tax cuts, and perhaps elimination, coming due to tariffs

President Donald Trump indicated that income taxes will be reduced or even eliminated for many people due to tariffs, with a focus on people earning under $200,000 per year.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
Click to expand...

The FIT ‘burden’ has already been “reduced or eliminated for many people”. The impact of tariffs also has the reverse effect - causing those who currently pay little or no FIT to pay more for goods/services due to the impact of tariffs.
 
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