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Fair Share

Respecthelect

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There are 240 million legal adults in the U.S. and the government spends $3.5T per year. If each adult paid an equal amount, each would pay $14,600 per year in federal tax alone. Do you pay this fair share? Or are you getting a free-ride?

Majority-rule allows the many to effectively steal from the few. Jesus may start out with a bias against large mobs? What will he think about the many stealing from the few? Not because he feels sorry for the rich, rather because theft by a majority-mob is still theft.

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Northern Light

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I find your post ponderous, inflammatory, and inaccurate.

First of all redistribution of wealth is not "stealing", not legally and not morally. Second of all, Jesus was a friggin socialist. He didn't own a Church and he told people to stay away from institutionalized religion because it was the devil's handy work that made them stray from God. His charity was second bar none. How dare you invoke his name while you spew disdain for the disenfranchised with the same breath.

Second of all, our current economic structures are permitting the few to steal from the many, not the other way around. The globalist agenda is causing America's middle class to hemorrhage because the 1%-aristocrats who are hording the gold are also busy dismantling our industrial workforce since they can find a cheaper deal in places like Asia.

If you want less people to be on the government tit then tell the government to trash the Bush Era corporate tax cuts, end the War on Drugs, and start genuine investigations into offshore accounts where all the money is being held while our government conveniently turns a blind eye.
 

RabidAlpaca

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I find your post ponderous, inflammatory, and inaccurate.

First of all redistribution of wealth is not "stealing", not legally and not morally. Second of all, Jesus was a friggin socialist. He didn't own a Church and he told people to stay away from institutionalized religion because it was the devil's handy work that made them stray from God. His charity was second bar none. How dare you invoke his name while you spew disdain for the disenfranchised with the same breath.

Second of all, our current economic structures are permitting the few to steal from the many, not the other way around. The globalist agenda is causing America's middle class to hemorrhage because the 1%-aristocrats who are hording the gold are also busy dismantling our industrial workforce since they can find a cheaper deal in places like Asia.

If you want less people to be on the government tit then tell the government to trash the Bush Era corporate tax cuts, end the War on Drugs, and start genuine investigations into offshore accounts where all the money is being held while our government conveniently turns a blind eye.

So you first identified that America has a major problem with jobs being shipped overseas, then turn around in the next paragraph and state that the way to address this problem is to increase taxes on companies?

Do you not see the insanely flawed logic in that? Companies are moving overseas because of the regulatory and tax burdens. We've made it too expensive to operate in America, so they've found somewhere else.

This is precisely why many companies are moving production lines and factories to Texas, because of the low corporate tax and zero income tax.
 

mak2

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I am a Christian and I have a very hard time figuring out how one could be both a Christian and a Republican.
I find your post ponderous, inflammatory, and inaccurate.

First of all redistribution of wealth is not "stealing", not legally and not morally. Second of all, Jesus was a friggin socialist. He didn't own a Church and he told people to stay away from institutionalized religion because it was the devil's handy work that made them stray from God. His charity was second bar none. How dare you invoke his name while you spew disdain for the disenfranchised with the same breath.

Second of all, our current economic structures are permitting the few to steal from the many, not the other way around. The globalist agenda is causing America's middle class to hemorrhage because the 1%-aristocrats who are hording the gold are also busy dismantling our industrial workforce since they can find a cheaper deal in places like Asia.

If you want less people to be on the government tit then tell the government to trash the Bush Era corporate tax cuts, end the War on Drugs, and start genuine investigations into offshore accounts where all the money is being held while our government conveniently turns a blind eye.
 

Respecthelect

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Did Jesus say it was OK to steal from others as long as the collective thieves outnumbered their victims? America was setup to protect us from the tyranny of the majority, yet here we are with the majority attempting to steal more and more from the rich. If one pays less than $14.6k per year in taxes, I think Jesus would advise that such a person was on the wrong side of theft and they should vote less taxation on the rich. I'm sorry, but my jealousy of the rich doesn't justify taking their property. It's nothing short of a mob stealing from the defenseless. And while theft hurts the victim, it hurts the thief much worse. Look at the country crumble as the mob attempts to steal more and more from the wealthy?

There's a huge difference between rich people who earn their wealth through inventiveness and trade vs government taking. Government uses force. Bill Gates provides a valuable product, offers it entirely at the customer's option. Government threatens violence, (legal) kidnapping, torture and coercion in order to take from its victims. One must always remember the difference between the two operational models.

Let the rich make their riches. They will answer for their life and we will answer for ours. Let us not be guilty of thievery, simply because our mob outnumbers their mob.

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mak2

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How much of that goes for the interstate system? or the Military? Or the...well you know what, you are right. I think the rich do steal the resourses of the rest of us. Following your line of reasoning we should get rid of all tax and all welfare, including corporate welfare. If buisness needs roads to move their products, let them build them out of their own money. Bill Gates would have no infrastructer to sell his products in were it not for taxes. I love these liberterian sorts of arguments. If you just follow the line of thought for just a second it gets to sillyville.
Did Jesus say it was OK to steal from others as long as the collective thieves outnumbered their victims? America was setup to protect us from the tyranny of the majority, yet here we are with the majority attempting to steal more and more from the rich. If one pays less than $14.6k per year in taxes, I think Jesus would advise that such a person was on the wrong side of theft and they should vote less taxation on the rich. I'm sorry, but my jealousy of the rich doesn't justify taking their property. It's nothing short of a mob stealing from the defenseless. And while theft hurts the victim, it hurts the thief much worse. Look at the country crumble as the mob attempts to steal more and more from the wealthy?

There's a huge difference between rich people who earn their wealth through inventiveness and trade vs government taking. Government uses force. Bill Gates provides a valuable product, offers it entirely at the customer's option. Government threatens violence, (legal) kidnapping, torture and coercion in order to take from its victims. One must always remember the difference between the two operational models.

Let the rich make their riches. They will answer for their life and we will answer for ours. Let us not be guilty of thievery, simply because our mob outnumbers their mob.

.
 

Respecthelect

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Business uses the road and you use the road. Only difference is business pays a lot more fees and taxes for road use than you.

This leftist argument that business couldn't make it without taking our money for roads and bridges is sillyville. You want Bill Gates product as much as Bill Gates wants to sell it to you. He pays his fair share, do you pay $14.6k per year? Do most of us?
 

Fenton

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I am a Christian and I have a very hard time figuring out how one could be both a Christian and a Republican.

Do you support a womans right to kill her unborn baby ?
 

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We've made it too expensive to operate in America, so they've found somewhere else.

It's natural for companies to look for the leanest, meanest overhead expense they can find. Do you think Nike would be out of business if they made shoes in the United States? I don't think they would be -- but I know they'd make (as a corporation) a hell of a lot less money.
 

Respecthelect

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That's the nice thing about freedom. Make it too painful to operate in the U.S. and there are plenty of other countries willing to host factories. Steal from the "rich" and lose factories.

Look at Detroit? They had the richest industry man has ever seen and Detroit'ers decided to steal as much as they could. Fifty years of unbroken liberal Democrat rule. It ended the way all leftist programs end - devastation and misery for all involved.

Now the whole country is headed the way Detroit chose. But, it's easy to fix. Simply stop voting to steal other people's money. Stop before the rest of the country looks like burned out Detroit.

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Fisher

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There are 240 million legal adults in the U.S. and the government spends $3.5T per year. If each adult paid an equal amount, each would pay $14,600 per year in federal tax alone. Do you pay this fair share? Or are you getting a free-ride?

I pay more than my "fair share" but my 3 and 6 year olds are free-loading democrats :3oops:
 

RabidAlpaca

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It's natural for companies to look for the leanest, meanest overhead expense they can find. Do you think Nike would be out of business if they made shoes in the United States? I don't think they would be -- but I know they'd make (as a corporation) a hell of a lot less money.

Profit is the entire reason the company exists in the first place. We as human beings exist to consume. This is a symbotic relationship where we both benefit. We as Americans would greatly benefit by having companies keep jobs in the US, so it absolutely blows my ****ing mind that people think raising taxes on them will convince them to move back.
 

mak2

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But eventually our payscale and India's payscale are going to have to get a whole lot closer together. I dont think buisness is interested in theirs coming up ot meet ours.
Profit is the entire reason the company exists in the first place. We as human beings exist to consume. This is a symbotic relationship where we both benefit. We as Americans would greatly benefit by having companies keep jobs in the US, so it absolutely blows my ****ing mind that people think raising taxes on them will convince them to move back.

Ridiculous.
 

RabidAlpaca

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But eventually our payscale and India's payscale are going to have to get a whole lot closer together. I dont think buisness is interested in theirs coming up ot meet ours.

Certain low end jobs should be done overseas. What American wants to sweat in a factory gluing plastic pieces together for 30 years? We can use the cheap labor and products we get from the third world to build bigger and better things.

Secondly, increased labor costs can be at least partially reduced by decreased shipping/logistical costs if certain production lines are in the US instead of China.
 

RabidAlpaca

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How much of that goes for the interstate system? or the Military? Or the...well you know what, you are right. I think the rich do steal the resourses of the rest of us. Following your line of reasoning we should get rid of all tax and all welfare, including corporate welfare. If buisness needs roads to move their products, let them build them out of their own money. Bill Gates would have no infrastructer to sell his products in were it not for taxes. I love these liberterian sorts of arguments. If you just follow the line of thought for just a second it gets to sillyville.

Don't call this guy libertarian. Being libertarian doesn't mean you oppose all infrastructure. The government does have roles; we just recognize that they no longer respect their boundaries and have become bloated and wasteful.

If it can be done by the free market, it should be. The public road system would be completely impractical if it were privatized. Same thing for the military, the judicial system, and the regulatory authorities.
 

mbig

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There are 240 million legal adults in the U.S. and the government spends $3.5T per year. If each adult paid an equal amount, each would pay $14,600 per year in federal tax alone. Do you pay this fair share? Or are you getting a free-ride?

Majority-rule allows the many to effectively steal from the few. Jesus may start out with a bias against large mobs? What will he think about the many stealing from the few? Not because he feels sorry for the rich, rather because theft by a majority-mob is still theft.
.
I've done this an alysys another way.
It's impossible, that's the problem
"Fair"?
I'll give you Fair. Why is Flat tax "Fair".
Why should someone pay $20 million in taxes and someone else merely $200.. or nothing?
They both get the US Military protection, Federal Highways, EPA Air, etc.

...Let's look at some rough numbers.

El Simplo/Simplest:
Budget ::::: $3 Trillion ÷ 300 million citizens = $10,000 each.
It doesn't get any easier or "Fairer" than that!!!!
That's EVERYONE of course, child, old, handicapped etc.

Warren Bufett + wife taxes.... $20,000
Single Welfare mother of six... $70,000
Walmart employee/family of 4. $40,000
92 year retiree on SS ........... $10,000

More workable? Second "fairest".

$3 Trillion ÷ 150,000,000 households/Number of tax entities = $20,000 each household (Single or Married couple filing jointly, etc) (Actually it's a bit higher per household but I'm rounding down for simplicity)
Walmart worker who makes $25,000 (that is their avg pay), pays 80% of his salary before any other deductions in tax, but owes more for SS etc.
He's in the Hole and of course not eating, housed, transported, or working any more.

Obviously everyone/household can't pay "their fair share" which IS about 20k.
That's basically what you (and others) are asking for.
Splash the two fairest. Or double/triple everyone else's burden and open Debtor prisons.

From these two examples, one hopes you can see that ONLY a Progressive income tax is do-able.
'Possible' trumps 'fair'.
Respectthelect Includes ALL adults over 18.. including the Aged/Over 65. (and 85), Not just what are now considered "working age adults"
Ooops.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html said:
Persons under 18 years, percent, - - - - - - - - - - 2012 - - - - - 23.5%
Persons 65 years and over, percent definition and source info Persons 65 years and over, percent, 2012 - -13.7%
So 37.2% of the USA's population (116.5 million of 313 million) are Not of "working age", leaving 197 million, Not 240 million, to pay 3.5 Trillon, Almost $18,000 per working age person.
Nearly the same as my analysis just above.

How does that work out for people at the nations Largest Private employer, Walmart, who earn on average 25,000 a year? (before state/local taxes)
 
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KLATTU

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Business uses the road and you use the road. Only difference is business pays a lot more fees and taxes for road use than you.

This leftist argument that business couldn't make it without taking our money for roads and bridges is sillyville. You want Bill Gates product as much as Bill Gates wants to sell it to you. He pays his fair share, do you pay $14.6k per year? Do most of us?

Groan. Right- as if the roads and bridges made Bill Gates successful.
 

KLATTU

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Or the...well you know what, you are right. I think the rich do steal the resourses of the rest of us. .

I can never figure out liberal ' logic' on this one.

If Apple sells a $500 iphone to a low income person, is that 'stealing' from them?
Nike selling 275 dollar sneakers in the ghetto . Is that ' stealing' ?
Where/how does the 'stealing' take place.?
 

YoungConserv

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I find your post ponderous, inflammatory, and inaccurate.

First of all redistribution of wealth is not "stealing", not legally and not morally. Second of all, Jesus was a friggin socialist. He didn't own a Church and he told people to stay away from institutionalized religion because it was the devil's handy work that made them stray from God. His charity was second bar none. How dare you invoke his name while you spew disdain for the disenfranchised with the same breath.

Second of all, our current economic structures are permitting the few to steal from the many, not the other way around. The globalist agenda is causing America's middle class to hemorrhage because the 1%-aristocrats who are hording the gold are also busy dismantling our industrial workforce since they can find a cheaper deal in places like Asia.

If you want less people to be on the government tit then tell the government to trash the Bush Era corporate tax cuts, end the War on Drugs, and start genuine investigations into offshore accounts where all the money is being held while our government conveniently turns a blind eye.
So a large organization taking money from me with out any choice that's not stealing but me choosing to give my money to a large organization in exchange for goods and services that's theft?
 

Lutherf

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Certain low end jobs should be done overseas. What American wants to sweat in a factory gluing plastic pieces together for 30 years? We can use the cheap labor and products we get from the third world to build bigger and better things.

Secondly, increased labor costs can be at least partially reduced by decreased shipping/logistical costs if certain production lines are in the US instead of China.

Lots of Americans what that job. They just want to get paid $75k/yr plus benefits for doing it.
 
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