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F.B.I. Investigating Police Accounts of Black Woman’s Death in Custody

And many jails are run by morons.
Your opinion of those who run such matters not to the point that it was allowed.


He can ask and she does not have to comply. It is a temporary detention (not an arrest) it is again not considered a criminal offence. She already had gotten the warning, so all the officer did was escalate for no reason.

Want to try again?
And you are wrong, as she does have to comply with lawful orders, which it was.
The fact that it was a detention allows him to either have her put it out or to separate her from it. She wouldn't comply with either.

She is the one who escalated it at every point. Which she escalated into an arrest for assault, which is criminal.
 
You didn't address the question. How did you make the leap from questioning motive to equating to deserved to die?
I may have jumped the gun a bit. Blackdog is right, I needed to take a breather. I'm better now. Sorry about that.

Now it's your turn to answer why you think its absurd to think that the cop had a motive?
 
You have no cite.
You won't explain.
Wrong. You play games and don't read across the threads you participate in. :doh


Your assertion is different from ...
No. I linked to what I was speaking of and was repeating what they said.
But as you don't read all across the threads, as you have shown, you don't know that.


Thank you for that. End of your game. Yay!
I have no issue with being incorrect. :shrug:
 
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Now it's your turn to answer why you think its absurd to think that the cop had a motive?
If you understood the information about this case you would understand why.
It was an absurd assertion as the Officer has nothing to do with the Jail. They are separate agencies.
 
If you understood the information about this case you would understand why.
It was an absurd assertion as the Officer has nothing to do with the Jail. They are separate agencies.

Uh huh. :roll:
 
Be serious Moot. What do you not understand about that?
If I thought you were serious then I might take you seriously...but I don't.
 
Just to clarify, Waller. Hempstead is further up the road.
Waller is just a town, Hempstead is where the Waller county jail, and county seat is located.
 
He was standing upright, and no blowing smoke is not a reason to act like a jackbooted thug with a badge. Threatening to light her up for failing to put out her cigarette and forcing her out of her car for no reason? Sorry, but this police officer clearly overstepped the boundaries of reasonable police behavior.

There is a vast gulf as to what is allowed in treatment of the police when stopped between America and the Netherlands. And no, not unreasonable behavior by police here, and yes unreasonable behavior by the person stopped here in America. I've seen the UK COPS type shows and they are allowed to be foul in language and behavior towards police. That **** don't fly here.
 
If I thought you were serious then I might take you seriously...but I don't.

I am being serious Moot because you obviously do not understand that they are separate agencies.

This whole train of thought that he has motive to get to a person in which he has no access and kill them is illogical.

You do realize that criminals and suspects tell cops that all the time, right? Cops are not fazed by it at all. And yet for some reason you think that provides motive to kill someone. That is illogical.

Please tell me how many times in your life you have heard of someone actually being killed because someone simply said they were going to sue them.
Then detail how many of those are a Police Officers doing the killing.
If you are able to find any, it would be an extremely rare occurrence, which would demonstrate the illogicality of suggesting it was a motive.

Please explain why you would even suggest such when the only available evidence says it was a suicide.
And then please explain why you would suggest such when the only available evidence says that it was impossible for her death to be caused by someone else.
 
There is a vast gulf as to what is allowed in treatment of the police when stopped between America and the Netherlands. And no, not unreasonable behavior by police here, and yes unreasonable behavior by the person stopped here in America. I've seen the UK COPS type shows and they are allowed to be foul in language and behavior towards police. That **** don't fly here.
Yet here, during a SWAT raid, cops will often scream stuff like, "GET ON THE GROUND, MOTHER****ER!!!". Is that acceptable?
 
I am being serious Moot because you obviously do not understand that they are separate agencies.
This whole train of thought that he has motive to get to a person in which he has no access and kill them is illogical.
Believe me I do understand that. excon. Do you understand that the cop might've had an accomplice inside the jail? Denial of the obvious is pretty illogical, too.


You do realize that criminals and suspects tell cops that all the time, right? Cops are not fazed by it at all. And yet for some reason you think that provides motive to kill someone. That is illogical.
That cop looked pretty fazed when he arrested Bland. He was hunting her for no other reason other than she was black.


Please tell me how many times in your life you have heard of someone actually being killed because someone simply said they were going to sue them.
I dunno, maybe a couple a hundred or more. Why? Are you not familiar with how people who think they are superior or above the law operate?

Then detail how many of those are a Police Officers doing the killing. If you are able to find any, it would be an extremely rare occurrence, which would demonstrate the illogicality of suggesting it was a motive
You're asking me to detail hundreds of instances over a lifetime? And you wonder why I don't take you seriously? :roll:.

Please explain why you would even suggest such when the only available evidence says it was a suicide.
And then please explain why you would suggest such when the only available evidence says that it was impossible for her death to be caused by someone else.
There are sources who don't believe it was a suicide. That's why it's being handled as a murder investigation. Gawd, you're boring. I am so tired of repeating the same thing over and over for you and only to have you completely ignore or twist everything I say. Go find someone else to pull your BS on.
 
Its very odd how the officer pulls her out of dashcam view. She was irritated but she started to comply as soon as she seen the taser. She became scared and complied with his orders. THEN the cop pulls her out of dashcam and she suddenly isnt scared anymore and kicks him??? So she was irratable, but then complied after she realized the cop was abusive, then when the cop gets her off dashcam she suddenly isnt afraid of his abuse and tries to kick him? Doesnt really make much sense.

The one time a cop pulled me behind dashcam it was because a female cop wanted to search me and grope all over my body. Cops pull you behind the dashcam when they want to do something illegal to you.

Funny how the jail cell is outside of view and something also happened bad to her there..... Seems like these cops have a bad habbit of becoming evil when they arent being recorded.
 
Believe me I do understand that. excon. Do you understand that the cop might've had an accomplice inside the jail? Denial of the obvious is pretty illogical, too.


That cop looked pretty fazed when he arrested Bland. He was hunting her for no other reason other than she was black.


I dunno, maybe a couple a hundred or more. Why? Are you not familiar with how people who think they are superior or above the law operate?

You're asking me to detail hundreds of instances over a lifetime? And you wonder why I don't take you seriously? :roll:.

There are sources who don't believe it was a suicide. That's why it's being handled as a murder investigation. Gawd, you're boring. I am so tired of repeating the same thing over and over for you and only to have you completely ignore or twist everything I say. Go find someone else to pull your BS on.

Excon is a known troll who always "devil's advocate" argues on one side NO MATTER WHAT. Its like he is filling a role or something. Part of some game or joke. If you go into his profile there is an "Ignore this user" part where you can hide all their posts. I have a very high tolerance but that guy is just too annoying.
 
Its very odd how the officer pulls her out of dashcam view.
I noticed that right away as well.
Too bad he didn't think to keep his actions w/ someone who was already threatening a lawsuit visible.

Cops could be trained to use those cameras to their own advantage.
 

Interesting, but not terribly relevant. This is report about suicides primarily in prison. She was in jail. She was not going to prison and was hours from being released. There is a major, major difference in her circumstance than that of someone serving time in prison with an outlook that is by definition more hopeless.

That said, I always appreciate people that support their arguments with 3rd party evidence. So kudos for that.
 
Excon is a known troll who always "devil's advocate" argues on one side NO MATTER WHAT. Its like he is filling a role or something. Part of some game or joke. If you go into his profile there is an "Ignore this user" part where you can hide all their posts. I have a very high tolerance but that guy is just too annoying.

Thanks, chris. I've never really used the ignore button because I think I'm fairly good at ignoring trolls when I feel like it. So for the most part, I just ignore him and let him waste his own time, instead of mine. But apparently ignoring him just drove him craaazy as evidenced by the numerous lengthy posts he made last night. lol That's about the only thing I find amusing about him, other than that he's a bore.
 
This would be you are speaking about as demonstrated over and over again.



Clearly showing the lack of the above again.
What I clearly said was the following.


She is only a victim of her own actions. You have to blame her for those.

Not exactly. The police officer did an extremely poor job of managing the traffic stop.

He lost control. Extremely unprofessional. Though he probably should be fired for making a mountain out of a molehill, at the very least he should be suspended without pay and take have to take a fair amount of remedial training before returning to duty. America has far too many cops with anger issues and attitude problems, as many recent events well illustrate

He may not have been a bad cop; but he was a bad cop in this instance.
 
Do you understand that the cop might've had an accomplice inside the jail? Denial of the obvious is pretty illogical, too.
1. An accomplice is unlikely. It is not logical to assert such.
2. To assert an accomplice with no evidence to support such an assertion, is extremely illogical.
3. To assert an accomplice when the only evidence indicates that it was impossible for her death to have been caused by another, is asininely ludicrous.


That cop looked pretty fazed when he arrested Bland.
:doh
You are imagining things if you think the results of his having to take her down has anything to do with her saying she was going to sue him. Thinking such is illogical.


He was hunting her for no other reason other than she was black.
:doh
You are again imagining things.

Again
She ran a stop sign and he had to turn around and was directly behind her less than 30 seconds.

As he was giving her a warning, that would place your "hunting" comment way out in La La land.
The circumstances and intent do not support hunting.

There was no hunting Moot. That claim is lame.
And saying it was done becasue she was black is your own illogical racist thoughts.


I dunno, maybe a couple a hundred or more. Why? Are you not familiar with how people who think they are superior or above the law operate?
You are being dishonest. You can point to no occurrences of someone killing another [highlight]simply for saying they are going to sue them[/highlight].


You're asking me to detail hundreds of instances over a lifetime? And you wonder why I don't take you seriously?
Your deflection is acknowledgement that you know your assertion is untrue and thus can not answer the question.


There are sources who don't believe it was a suicide.
No Moot. Those you are referring to are not "sources" of evidence, or of anything credible in relation to the evidence.


That's why it's being handled as a murder investigation.
No Moot. That is not why it is being handled as it is.
To assert such is lame.


Gawd, you're boring. I am so tired of repeating the same thing over and over for you and only to have you completely ignore or twist everything I say.
And there it is again. You can not defend your absurdly illogical position, deflect, and try to blame me for it. :doh
No Moot, I have not ignored what you said, nor have I twisted any of it. But you have tried to twist what I and others have said. All becasue you can not defend your position.


Go find someone else to pull your BS on.
Between us, your arguments are the only bs here. Sadly you are unable to see it.
 
If you view this dashcam video from USA Today and this video from TheDailyBeast which picks up the action after Sandra Bland was subdued and cuffed on the ground, the picture of what happened becomes very clear.

IMO, the cop was wrong!

The cop pulls her over for failure to use her turn signal. No real problem there. Even Ms. Bland admits to this charge. Although there is a mild exchange of words between the two, Ms. Bland was cooperating up until the cop asked her to put out her cigarette. That's when the trouble started.

Now, the way I see it Ms. Bland didn't have to comply with the police officer's request. She's in HER car, HER private property. She has the right to smoke if she wants to and doing so has absolutely nothing to do with the cop giving her a ticket whether it was a written warning or an actually citation. He went overboard when he demanded that she get out of her car. Why? Because he was angry at her for not extinguishing her cigarette. BOGUS!

Then things begin to escalate from there with the cop first threatening to yank her out of her car - again over not complying with his demand to extinguish her cigarette IN HER CAR which had nothing to do with the traffic violation - and then attempting to follow through with that threat.

Admittedly, Ms. Bland wasn't very cooperative throughout, but what the cop did was way over the top, IMO. He may not have liked Ms. Bland's tone when answering his questions. I'm certain he believed she was mouthing off and being non-compliant. But IMO, she didn't have to comply with his request to extinguish her cigarette in her car. It might have been an irritant to him, but it had nothing to do with the traffic violation.

As to the resisting arrest part, to me it's clear that the cop was pulling her around. Every time he moved while he still had a firm grip on her arm and wrist while cuffed, she moved! She even stated as much. At one point, the cop even maneuvered her closer to her car but then claimed that she was resisting. :shrug:

The cop was in the wrong here. He should have just issued the warning and let it go. But he apparently didn't like how she was standing up to him (or as some people will likely see it, "talking back to authority") and got upset. And when she didn't comply with his demand, all hell broke loose!

As to her subsequent death while in police custody, hard to say whose to blame here without further investigation. It does look very suspicious for a person to be perfectly fine one minute and then 2 hours later is found dead in her jail cell. Nor does it make sense that a person who was attempting to post bail would hang herself (24) hours later. Granted, she admitted to having PTSD and suffering from depression, but if you lived through the night without taking your own life why would you suddenly do it the next day within 2 hours after having made requests of the police to make a phone call?

Very strange indeed!
 
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Not exactly. The police officer did an extremely poor job of managing the traffic stop.

He lost control. Extremely unprofessional. Though he probably should be fired for making a mountain out of a molehill, at the very least he should be suspended without pay and take have to take a fair amount of remedial training before returning to duty. America has far too many cops with anger issues and attitude problems, as many recent events well illustrate

He may not have been a bad cop; but he was a bad cop in this instance.
Yes exactly.
You can only blame her for her actions. She choose how she acts. No one else.
And presently, within the known evidence, you can only blame her for taking her life.



AUSTIN – The state Department of Public Safety has found violations in the agency’s procedures regarding traffic stops and the department’s courtesy policy” in the recent stop that resulted in the arrest of Sandra Bland in Waller County.

Considering her behavior? Yeah, he did a fine job regardless of any lapse in courtesy during the event.
 
Some facts about jail suicides:

...statistics show that suicides in jails were “heavily concentrated in the first week spent in custody (48%), with almost a quarter of suicides taking place on the day of admission to jail (14%) or on the following day (9%).’’

The highest suicide rates are found in the smallest facilities, perhaps because those facilities have small staffs and are unable to keep watch over troubled inmates. http://theboard.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/11/21/throwing-away-young-people-prison-suicide/

The Challenges

*Smaller jails have higher suicide rates.
*5 times higher in jails holding less than 50 inmates.
*These account for 14% of jail suicides. (BJS, 2005)
*Many jails do not provide suicide prevention training or do not provide it annually.
( NIC, 2010)

Most jails have a suicide prevention policy, but many are not comprehensive. (NIC,2010)
http://www.usmarshals.gov/prisoner/jail_suicide.pdf

There is a disproportionate incidence of suicide in county jails:

When standardized per 100,000 inmates, jail suicides happen at more than three times the rate of suicide in state prisons, national studies find.2 Even after adjusting for differences associated with age, gender, and ethnicity, suicide is the only cause of death that occurs at a higher rate in local jails than in the U.S. general population.3 In fact, a comprehensive study on jail suicide by leading correctional suicides expert Lindsay Hayes suggests this rate of jail suicide is as much as three times the rate in the general population (page 2).

Numerous studies suggest that, when standardized by average daily population, the nation’s smallest jails have a suicide rate more than six times the rate in the nation’s largest jails.24 Jail size and suicide rates, it turns out, are closely related throughout the entire range of jail sizes: as jail size increases, suicide rate falls (page 6).

While only 29 percent of other jails deaths occurred with single cell inmates, 58 percent of suicide victims were housed in a single cell. Multiple occupancy housing appears negatively correlated with jail suicide, suggesting its potential use as a preventative tool.

Hanging or strangulation is the dominant method of suicide in Texas county jails. Of the 102 suicides that occurred between 2005 and September of 2009, over 87 percent happened by hanging or strangulation (page 7).

See Table 1: Summary of Risk Characteristics for Texas Jail Suicides on page 9.

Understanding the triggers for inmate suicide is challenging, as they vary greatly from inmate to inmate. Suicides are often spontaneous and notoriously difficult to forecast. Clearly the categorical predictors in this study are only a handful of pieces in a much larger puzzle. Some stressors may come from the jail environment itself where isolation, loss of control, conflict with other inmates or staff, frustration with legal proceedings, or distress and shame over incarceration may flare suicidal tendencies.

Still other causal variables lie outside of the state’s involvement. Roughly half of all jail inmates grew up in single-parent households. Half have a family member who has been incarcerated. Many have suffered from past physical or sexual abuse, and nearly seven in ten have substance abuse problems.33 Family troubles, loss of employment, mental health issues, and a host of other factors may be driving the decision to commit suicide.

For all these reasons, many of those who study correctional suicides in pursuit of practical predictive profiles, including the TCJS, Lindsay Hayes, and others, are wary of placing too much faith in the forecasting capacity of a few demographic variables. This reluctance, however, is not to say that preventative measures cannot be taken. The next section attempts to distill and adapt a number of suicide-prevention practices for use in Texas county jails (page 9).
http://www.lbjjournal.com/sites/default/files/files/Dillon_A portrait of suicides in Texas Jails.pdf
 
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