Eyeing Trump, Obama takes new action to ban Arctic drilling

[Mac77]

Like I said, faith in the Deus ex Machina of the free market. You believe that that the fairy corporation mother will save you. All you need to do is let it make enough money. If it was good enough to work in 1871, well that's just good enough for you today. Someone needs to just go out in their backyard find the next fuel and all will be magically better.

In the real world, stories don't always have a happy ending. Just because things are good today, doesn't mean they'll be good tomorrow.

We need oil today. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be trying to explore ways moving forward, and that includes efforts by the government. Do you think the US is where it is today because we're somehow genetically better than everyone else? Lots of countries let corporations do whatever they want, they're typically poor and corrupt.

The fairy corporation mother always left some money under my pillow so I have no complaints.

And as for oil and alternative energy their is research going on all the time for substitutes to fossil fuel.

Its not for lack of trying that no one has found the lost secrets of Atlantis yet.

 

[apdst]

Good! But that's not an argument for oil, it's an argument for a well payed workforce.

It's absolutely an argument for oil.

 

[Born Free]

I've said time and again the R&D has no return. It's pure cost at least up front.

Yes R&D does have a return, that is why one invests in it. It's called Research and Development, you are leaving out the development phase. In fact that is the only reason, is for a return on investment. And investors know when to quit as the cost vs potential reward is not worth the risk. I refer to investors as any investor even government investment. Government invested in Solyndra and we taxpayers are on the hook for over 500 million. We are also on the hook for every solar panel in place in this country and every windmill and all the so called green cars, all adding up to billions in subsidy for the tax payer. There is no reward, period. It is money down a rat hole.

Seven things you should know about Solyndra - Jun. 6, 2012

Even government has limits, but you have no limits on government spending, that is a typical liberal philosophy keep pouring money at it. At this time you can pour all the money you want and it will not change the fact that green cannot stand on it's own merits. Why because oil, natural gas is much cheaper. Then you have China making our solar factories non profitable. And even we buying China made solar panels they are not competitive with our oil, and natural gas. Further with our energy reserves solar is out of the picture to be profitable for who knows how long, and it's been decades already and will be many more decades before our natural reserves begin to dwindle. But hey go ahead and keep champing spending billions down a rate hole, because that is all your ending up with, is money hole.

 

[Born Free]

Good! But that's not an argument for oil, it's an argument for a well payed workforce.

OK the argument for oil is cheap energy, same as natural gas and as a side benefit it employs hundreds of thousands of good paying jobs that helps build our economy along with the cheap energy.

 

[Mithros]

OK the argument for oil is cheap energy, same as natural gas and as a side benefit it employs hundreds of thousands of good paying jobs that helps build our economy along with the cheap energy.

Sure.. It's a good argument! Oil certainly needs to be a big part of the equation today.

But even if you ignore the environmental impact and the secondary costs associated with climate change, oil is going to run out. We need to move on to other energy sources, probably an all of the above solution. Purposefully refusing investments in clean energy or conservation is stupid. It's the political equivalent to trucks set up to "blow coal".

 

[Captain America]

Oilfield jobs are some of best paying blue collar jobs there are.

As they should be. The work is hard and the sacrifices are many.

The industry makes billions and billions and they do take care of their own.

Remind me again why we subsidize the oil industry? How much a year? Does anyone know? Including tax favors, loop-holes, write-offs, etc....

I'd rather that money go to veterans, active military, roads, education and feeding hungry babies. I guess that's why some folks call me a liberal. <SMH>

Merry Christmas everybody.

 

[Gaius46]

You mean obama and the sleepwalking career bureocrats in Washington know more about the oil industry than the professionals who run the major oil companies?

I don't think the government knows 1/1000 as much as the private sector knowscon that subject

And the same goes for the razor sharp investers on Wall St who study every move the oil companies make before buying or selling their stock.

Nope that's not what I mean at all.

My basic statement throughout this entire discussion has been that the market may not be the best means to do long lead time R&D projects - especially in completely new technologies - because there is no short term payoff for companies. The Internet, which was started with government money, being a prime example.

 

[Mac77]

Nope that's not what I mean at all.

My basic statement throughout this entire discussion has been that the market may not be the best means to do long lead time R&D projects - especially in completely new technologies - because there is no short term payoff for companies. The Internet, which was started with government money, being a prime example.

No one wants to ban government grants for R & D

It is the money government is giving to private companies and consumers to subsidise the cost of current technoloy that we object to

Fiascos like Solaria or the 30% tax credit to homeowners to pay for existing technology solar panes amounts to liberals pulling strings from above in the free market

 

[Gaius46]

No one wants to ban government grants for R & D

It is the money government is giving to private companies and consumers to subsidise the cost of current technoloy that we object to

Fiascos like Solaria or the 30% tax credit to homeowners to pay for existing technology solar panes amounts to liberals pulling strings from above in the free market

Okay so we agree then. I think the only thing we really disagree on is whether tax credits to consumers to buy a new technology represents a viable way for the government to fund R&D.

 

[apdst]

As they should be. The work is hard and the sacrifices are many.

The industry makes billions and billions and they do take care of their own.

Remind me again why we subsidize the oil industry? How much a year? Does anyone know? Including tax favors, loop-holes, write-offs, etc....

I'd rather that money go to veterans, active military, roads, education and feeding hungry babies. I guess that's why some folks call me a liberal. <SMH>

Merry Christmas everybody.

We don't subsidize the oil and gas industry.

 

[Mac77]

Okay so we agree then. I think the only thing we really disagree on is whether tax credits to consumers to buy a new technology represents a viable way for the government to fund R&D.

That's a real stretch to say the 30% is an indirect funding of R&D

It's just a windfall profit for the companies providing the solar panels

 

[Born Free]

Sure.. It's a good argument! Oil certainly needs to be a big part of the equation today.

But even if you ignore the environmental impact and the secondary costs associated with climate change, oil is going to run out. We need to move on to other energy sources, probably an all of the above solution. Purposefully refusing investments in clean energy or conservation is stupid. It's the political equivalent to trucks set up to "blow coal".

When you consider the billions we are spending on all this green subsidy of which is not science, is criminal. All these billions go to people that want to put up a solar system that no one would purchase on it's own merit. This is the same for cars that meet the label of green, again no one would buy it on it's own merit. All these wind farms would not exist without government money, same as all these solar manufacturers.

This is not science but a money give away to those that don't need it. Take a $37,000 dollar car the government will pay $8,000 bringing the price down to $29,000. This is not money for the less privileged but for those who can actually pay $37,000 for a car. But big daddy government will hand out 8K so you will buy the car they want you to buy. This is BS big time.

For oil it's not going to run out for who knows how long. As for it being the cause of climate change the jury is still out. Sure there is climate change it has been going one from the time the planet was born. Maybe you have the answer to why we had the ice age and then the warming?

I have to ask, so what if the planet warms up a little or even more than a little. We adapt, nothing new there.