Eye for an eye

[Donkey1499]

How is it 1 wrong, and 1 right? Who the hell gave us authority to play "God"? Who gave us the authority to take someones life coldy, in a premeditated, organized fashion? Why is it trivial for the state to dwell on the costs? Money makes the world go round.:2razz: Death sentence appeals clog our justice system. What are you saying that I am about inflicting punishment? Prison is not all about punishment, it is about salvation and rehabilitation, and seperating criminals from society.



How do they condradict eachother? Killing is wrong. Even self-defense killing is wrong if you harbor the intent to kill. But if you kill in self-defense,and didn't mean to kill, only inflict the least possible damage, then I'd say its understandable. You seem to be attempting to show to everyone on this forum that you indeed found some "huge mistake" on my posts, which you didn't.:lol:

We are among the 11 countries that still employ the death penalty. It seems that we are in the company of such good humanitarian prospects such as Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Kuwait, Bangladesh, Egypt, Singapore, Yemen, China and Vietnam.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=127&scid=30

Oh damn those dirty Arabs and those friggin' Chinks! How dare they use the death penalty!!! And why are we on their same, dirty level?

First you liberals wanted wanted the death penalty to be more humane (i.e. lethal injection), and now you want to abolish it completely. Wow. You guys are progressive. Just not progressing in the right direction.

I say: "The punishment fits the crime." Serial killers and all other murderers who show no true remorse deserve nothing less than death.

 

[kal-el]

Oh damn those dirty Arabs and those friggin' Chinks! How dare they use the death penalty!!! And why are we on their same, dirty level?

Exactly. Now you're starting to get it.:2razz:

First you liberals wanted wanted the death penalty to be more humane (i.e. lethal injection), and now you want to abolish it completely. Wow. You guys are progressive. Just not progressing in the right direction.

What are you talking about? I've always been opposed to the death penalty. Not progressing in the right direction? Dude, you only need to look in the mirror, it is the conservatives that fear change, and their minds "settle" into old habits.

I say: "The punishment fits the crime." Serial killers and all other murderers who show no true remorse deserve nothing less than death.

Ok, but who has the right to put them to death? Whoever pulls the switch is just as guilty of murder as the criminal who originally committed it, hence they should be subject to prosecution, and then execution.

 

[alphieb]

And putting them in prison does take back their crime? That arguement seems pretty irrelevant here. Saying that the guilty deserve a worthless life in prison seems like blind following to me. Explain to me why a life in prison for a murderer serves justice, whereas ending that prisoners life does not?

PUTTING THEM IN PRISON DOES NOT TAKE BACK THEIR CRIME, BUT KEEPS THEM OFF THE STREETS AND STOPS THEM FROM INFLICTING HARM TO ANYONE ELSE.

ENDING A PRISONERS LIFE WOULD PROVIDE PEACE FOR THEM AS OPPOSED TO KEEPING THEM IN PRISON TO DWELL ON THEIR CRIME.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Robert Blake? O.J. Simpson? Kobe Bryant? Darryl Strawberry? Oh, I could just go on and on......

Wow. 4 people out of how many crimes committed? Maybe you should go on and on...

 

[Brutus]

How is it 1 wrong, and 1 right? Who the hell gave us authority to play "God"? Who gave us the authority to take someones life coldy, in a premeditated, organized fashion? Why is it trivial for the state to dwell on the costs? Money makes the world go round.:2razz: Death sentence appeals clog our justice system. What are you saying that I am about inflicting punishment? Prison is not all about punishment, it is about salvation and rehabilitation, and seperating criminals from society.

Who's bringing God into the equation? I never ONCE mentioned God or anything to do with him. Serving justice has NOTHING to do with God. And by saying that it is trivial for the state to dwell on costs are you saying that money is worth more than a human being? You said that life in prison is worse than execution. What is "worse" should never be considered.

How do they condradict eachother? Killing is wrong. Even self-defense killing is wrong if you harbor the intent to kill. But if you kill in self-defense,and didn't mean to kill, only inflict the least possible damage, then I'd say its understandable. You seem to be attempting to show to everyone on this forum that you indeed found some "huge mistake" on my posts, which you didn't.:lol:

If you have no intent to kill and he is still dead, it is still killing (you have ended the life of another human being). Thus, it is the motive behind the action (self defense) and not the actual killing. Do you still not follow that reasoning? Or would you like me to say it again?

 

[Brutus]

PUTTING THEM IN PRISON DOES NOT TAKE BACK THEIR CRIME, BUT KEEPS THEM OFF THE STREETS AND STOPS THEM FROM INFLICTING HARM TO ANYONE ELSE.

ENDING A PRISONERS LIFE WOULD PROVIDE PEACE FOR THEM AS OPPOSED TO KEEPING THEM IN PRISON TO DWELL ON THEIR CRIME.

Hmm... And killing them doesn't keep them off the streets? That's an interesting thought.

Why are you anti-death penalty people all about making the criminal suffer? Suffering should have NO BEARING on the punishment of the crime. Justice should be the only measure.

 

[Brutus]

What are you talking about? I've always been opposed to the death penalty. Not progressing in the right direction? Dude, you only need to look in the mirror, it is the conservatives that fear change, and their minds "settle" into old habits.

Who's settling into old habits? Explain to me why life in prison is a more suitable and fair punishment than the death penalty.

 

[kal-el]

Who's bringing God into the equation? I never ONCE mentioned God or anything to do with him. Serving justice has NOTHING to do with God. And by saying that it is trivial for the state to dwell on costs are you saying that money is worth more than a human being? You said that life in prison is worse than execution. What is "worse" should never be considered.

It's just a saying, "we're playing God" ya know. Just like the Pope likes to continue preaching the out-dated message of "Go forth and multiply", condmneing both contraception and abortion desptite the overwhelming fact that there are already 6 billion humans on earth with a imperative problem of overpopulation. "Serving justice has NOTHING to do with god"- tell that same sentence to the bible-thumpers.:lol: Of course money isn't worth more, show me where I said that. It should be considered when we are talking about punishments or deterrents.:2razz:

If you have no intent to kill and he is still dead, it is still killing (you have ended the life of another human being). Thus, it is the motive behind the action (self defense) and not the actual killing. Do you still not follow that reasoning? Or would you like me to say it again?

Uhh, I've already said if you didn't have the intent, (self-defense) it's not an important matter. We're have you been? :lol: Opposed to motive, what if someone had a machine gun, and they shot up a crowd of onlookers. And in the crowd was a loved-one of the shooter. He kills everyone. He didn't intend to kill the loved-one, but he did. Is that right, then? Is it not murder? According to your take on it, because he didn't have motive its not wrong.:2razz:

 

[kal-el]

Who's settling into old habits? Explain to me why life in prison is a more suitable and fair punishment than the death penalty.

Because the person in question still has a chance at life. There's no reversing a death sentence. You can always free a person from prison, but once they're 6-feet under, kiss them goodbye.:2razz:

 

[Brutus]

It's just a saying, "we're playing God" ya know. Just like the Pope likes to continue preaching the out-dated message of "Go forth and multiply", condmneing both contraception and abortion desptite the overwhelming fact that there are already 6 billion humans on earth with a imperative problem of overpopulation. "Serving justice has NOTHING to do with god"- tell that same sentence to the bible-thumpers.:lol: Of course money isn't worth more, show me where I said that. It should be considered when we are talking about punishments or deterrents.:2razz:

How again is serving justice playing God?
"Why is it trivial for the state to dwell on the costs? Money makes the world go round. Death sentence appeals clog our justice system." That is where you said it.

Uhh, I've already said if you didn't have the intent, (self-defense) it's not an important matter. We're have you been? :lol: Opposed to motive, what if someone had a machine gun, and they shot up a crowd of onlookers. And in the crowd was a loved-one of the shooter. He kills everyone. He didn't intend to kill the loved-one, but he did. Is that right, then? Is it not murder? According to your take on it, because he didn't have motive its not wrong.:2razz:

Are you serious? Look at your first sentence then look at your example. "I've already said if you didn't have the intent, (self-defense) it's not an important matter" "He kills everyone. He didn't intend to kill the loved-one, but he did" The latter is wrong because of the thought--by firing into a crowd of onlookers he intended to kill people, it doesn't matter if he didn't want to kill a specific person, he still had the intention of killing. The former, we both agree, isn't wrong. So (hopefully) you will now agree that it is thought behind the action, not the action that is actually wrong.

 

[kal-el]

Hmm... And killing them doesn't keep them off the streets? That's an interesting thought.

Sure it does, but that's a moot point. What if they are proven innocent after they are executed? Sure, a vast majority of people on death row are guilty, but unless the justice system is batting 1000, there's a possibility that innocents will be executed.

As of March 2005, 119 people have been released from death rows accross the country.
http://www.karisable.com/crpundeath.htm

Mistakes can and have been made and, in maintaining the death sentence, innocent people will be killed.

http://www.aliran.com/monthly/2003/6k.html

Why are you anti-death penalty people all about making the criminal suffer? Suffering should have NO BEARING on the punishment of the crime. Justice should be the only measure.

Justice you say? Are you seriously talking about the death penalty?:lol: Please, if anything it keeps the family of the victim angry and involved for a number of years, with the appeals and such. It incites people to focus on revenge opposed to moving on.
http://www.deathpenaltyusa.blogspot.com/2004/08/closure.htm

The death penalty is not about justice, it's about revenge.

 

[kal-el]

How again is serving justice playing God?
"Why is it trivial for the state to dwell on the costs? Money makes the world go round. Death sentence appeals clog our justice system." That is where you said it.

I never said money is more important than a human life. You're twisting my words around to fit in with your asinine agenda. So, you're lying?

Are you serious? Look at your first sentence then look at your example. "I've already said if you didn't have the intent, (self-defense) it's not an important matter" "He kills everyone. He didn't intend to kill the loved-one, but he did" The latter is wrong because of the thought--by firing into a crowd of onlookers he intended to kill people, it doesn't matter if he didn't want to kill a specific person, he still had the intention of killing. The former, we both agree, isn't wrong. So (hopefully) you will now agree that it is thought behind the action, not the action that is actually wrong.

You seem to be altering your stance when I refute your ridiculous assumptions.:2razz: The action is wrong. Our central nervous system, or our brain, controls our thoughts and actions, among other things. So, unless killing is habitual, I kinda doubt that there's no thought behind the action.:2razz:

 

[alphieb]

Hmm... And killing them doesn't keep them off the streets? That's an interesting thought.

Why are you anti-death penalty people all about making the criminal suffer? Suffering should have NO BEARING on the punishment of the crime. Justice should be the only measure.

Justice and suffering go hand in hand. I am against the death penalty once again, because someone maybe innocent. Not to mention, I think it is wrong to murder someone, because they have murdered. What kind of message does that send.

 

[kal-el]

Brutus, let's say you get behind the weel and drive after you had 10 or 12 beers. You might be **** drunk. You pass out and while out, run over a person. You didn't say to yourself "I'm going to run someone over today", so there goes your "intent". So, intent is irrelvant, it is the action itself.

 

[kal-el]

Justice and suffering go hand in hand. I am against the death penalty once again, because someone maybe innocent.

Yup. Here's some links on innocense:

Release from Death row-Probable or Possible innocense:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=6&did=111#Released

Executed, but possibly innocent:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=6&did=111#executed

Not to mention, I think it is wrong to murder someone, because they have murdered. What kind of message does that send.

Not a very positive one. It seems kinda hypocritical if you ask me.:lol:

 

[alphieb]

Brutus, let's say you get behind the weel and drive after you had 10 or 12 beers. You might be **** drunk. You pass out and while out, run over a person. You didn't say to yourself "I'm going to run someone over today", so there goes your "intent". So, intent is irrelvant, it is the action itself.

That really hits home with me, because that particular scenario happened to a family member of mine. He was a drunk driver with a passenger (wrecked, his best friend, passenger got killed). After that he never touched alcohol again and devoted his life to helping others as he lived in utter guilt for the rest of his life. A prisoner in his own mind. No imprisonment could hurt him more than he was already hurting in his own mind.

It could happen to anyone, as a lot of people drink and drive with no intent to harm anyone as their frontal lobes are shut down due to alcohol. One that learns from their mistakes should be forgiven. The hardest part is forgiving yourself.

 

[Donkey1499]

Wow. 4 people out of how many crimes committed? Maybe you should go on and on...

Hey, don't trifle with me, Baldy! And list could go on, but I don't feel like researching it today. "Always do what you can today tomorrow" or something along those lines. LOL

 

[Donkey1499]

Exactly. Now you're starting to get it.:2razz:

I was playing. But it seems like you don't like the Chinese or the others that were listed.

What are you talking about? I've always been opposed to the death penalty. Not progressing in the right direction? Dude, you only need to look in the mirror, it is the conservatives that fear change, and their minds "settle" into old habits.

I know conservatives fear change, as do I (somewhat). But that just makes us conservatives "consistant". If you're a fan of NASCAR, then you'd know that consistancy is the key to success.

Ok, but who has the right to put them to death? Whoever pulls the switch is just as guilty of murder as the criminal who originally committed it, hence they should be subject to prosecution, and then execution.

Who has the right to give us rights? Who has the right to let us all live in "harmony" with butterflies fluttering and squirrels at our nuts? The Big, Fat G. The gov't decides. And so do the Greys.

 

[kal-el]

I was playing. But it seems like you don't like the Chinese or the others that were listed.

I was kidding also, if you take note of the smile face.:2razz:

I know conservatives fear change, as do I (somewhat). But that just makes us conservatives "consistant". If you're a fan of NASCAR, then you'd know that consistancy is the key to success.

Ahh, NASCAR is for ****ies.:lol:

Who has the right to give us rights? Who has the right to let us all live in "harmony" with butterflies fluttering and squirrels at our nuts? The Big, Fat G. The gov't decides. And so do the Greys.

The government decides, huh? I thought you conservatives were anti-government? Isn't it kinda hypocritical to support the government's decisions?

 

[Donkey1499]

I was kidding also, if you take note of the smile face.:2razz:

My Norton blocks the smileys for some retarded reason, so I apoligize for missing that.

Ahh, NASCAR is for ****ies.:lol:

What was that word? I can't see it thru all the censorship ASSterisks.LOL

The government decides, huh? I thought you conservatives were anti-government? Isn't it kinda hypocritical to support the government's decisions?

Cons are for "limited" gov't (or at least I am), not "anti-gov't". You makes us sound like anarchists.

 

[kal-el]

My Norton blocks the smileys for some retarded reason, so I apoligize for missing that.

O, ok.:2razz:

What was that word? I can't see it thru all the censorship ASSterisks.LOL

It's not that complicated to figure out. 4 letters and ends with ies. hint: girls have them

Cons are for "limited" gov't (or at least I am), not "anti-gov't". You makes us sound like anarchists.

Hey walks like a duck, talks like a duck, must be a duck.:2razz:

 

[Donkey1499]

It's not that complicated to figure out. 4 letters and ends with ies. hint: girls have them

Why you dissin' a great American sport?

Hey walks like a duck, talks like a duck, must be a duck.:2razz:

Now you're bringing ducks into the debate. Leave AFLAC out of it!!! LOL

 

[kal-el]

Why you dissin' a great American sport?

That is all in the eye of the beholder. You think it's great, I think it sux.:2razz:

Now you're bringing ducks into the debate. Leave AFLAC out of it!!! LOL

:rofl

 

[Donkey1499]

That is all in the eye of the beholder. You think it's great, I think it sux.:2razz:

Aha! You think liberalism is great, but I think it sucks!

 

[Donkey1499]

Kal-el, and you like Superman, where he puts people in jail, then there's the possibility that they MIGHT be executed. HAhahahahahahahaahahhaaa

Especially if they killed many Metropolis citizens to take over the world! Hahahahahaahahahahahahaahahaahahahahahaaaaaaa