Eye for an eye? (1 Viewer)

[HTColeman]

How much do you support the eye for an eye ideology? Personally, politically, etc. Lets be truthful!

 

[shuamort]

Not at all. It's the base level of morality per Kohlberg:

   LEVEL           STAGE             SOCIAL ORIENTATION

Pre-conventional      1            Obedience and Punishment

                      2         Individualism, Instrumentalism,
                                        and Exchange


  Conventional        3                "Good boy/girl"

                      4                 Law and Order


Post-conventional     5                Social Contract

                      6              Principled Conscience

 

[taxsquad]

it depends

 

[SKILMATIC]

I of course voted yes as I said I would. Even though its against my own argument.

 

[Archon]

I of course voted yes as I said I would. Even though its against my own argument.

At least you can agree that you are hypocrite. Your version of flawed logic is incendiary at best.

 

[SKILMATIC]

At least you can agree that you are hypocrite. Your version of flawed logic is incendiary at best.

You dont even have the slightest idea of what I am talking about. Maybe you should ask first before you post. I have never been a hypocrite and I havent in this thread. What is going on that you have no idea of cause you rarely have a perceptio of things is me and htcoleman(the thread maker) had a discussion i another thread about eye ofr an eye. He basically said that most people beleive in eye for an eye in america even though not many states have capitol punishment. And I said no, the majority of people dont beleive in capital punishment. So then I said the only way we will settle this is through a poll. So he made one and even though I myself agree with capital punishment I still beleive that not very many other people do beleive in it. Does this make sense enough for you or do I need to spell every word correctly for you to understand this language?

 

[TimmyBoy]

I of course voted yes as I said I would. Even though its against my own argument.

Skilly, you have some of he worst debating skills I have seen, but you're funny :rofl

 

[Archon]

You dont even have the slightest idea of what I am talking about. Maybe you should ask first before you post. I have never been a hypocrite and I havent in this thread. What is going on that you have no idea of cause you rarely have a perceptio of things is me and htcoleman(the thread maker) had a discussion i another thread about eye ofr an eye. He basically said that most people beleive in eye for an eye in america even though not many states have capitol punishment. And I said no, the majority of people dont beleive in capital punishment. So then I said the only way we will settle this is through a poll. So he made one and even though I myself agree with capital punishment I still beleive that not very many other people do beleive in it. Does this make sense enough for you or do I need to spell every word correctly for you to understand this language?

Nice tangent. Now did you have anything logical to say or shall you continue your subjective diatribe and further clarify your (lack-of-any-type-of) position aside from proclaiming to disagree with your own position?

 

[SKILMATIC]

Nice tangent. Now did you have anything logical to say or shall you continue your subjective diatribe and further clarify your (lack-of-any-type-of) position aside from proclaiming to disagree with your own position?

How did I disagree with my position? I have said I am for an eye for an eye and thats what I am for. However, I know not all people share the same assessment. How is this disagreeing with my position? You arent making sense.

You do know people can have opinions on matters, and also know that not most people share their same opinion right?

 

[Archon]

How did I disagree with my position? I have said I am for an eye for an eye and thats what I am for. However, I know not all people share the same assessment. How is this disagreeing with my position? You arent making sense.

You do know people can have opinions on matters, and also know that not most people share their same opinion right?

Vis'a'vis

of course voted yes as I said I would. Even though its against my own argument

Nice.

 

[SKILMATIC]

Vis'a'vis



Nice.

Again, I did vote against my own argument IN THAT I TRULY BELEIVE MOST PEOPLE DONT BELEIVE IN AN EYE FOR AN EYE. Please understand simple concepts archon. You are trying too hard to smear someone that you are actually making yourself look like an embassil. I would hate for you to do this to yourself again.

 

[Billo_Really]

An "eye for an eye" is not the entire statement. "Vengence" is HIS, not ours. In other words, its not our call.

 

[debate_junkie]

" An eye for an eye" is not practical, in the Biblical sense, in that the Bible has said, and I don't know where, and I'm paraphrasing.. something to the effect if a hand steals, it should be cut off. Women were stoned to death for adultery.. etc. The list could go on.

But... the principal, I think, still applies for the more violent of criminal purposes. I mean, you wouldn't want to cut someone's lips off for smoking a joint, right?

Criminals, the more violent they are, need to be separated from society, and those that are so violent as to end another person's life deserve no sympathy, because, unless it was self defense, there is no excuse. Period! Take this for example... Sunday morning, in sleepy Lancaster County, PA, a 14 year old girl's parents were shot to death ALLEGEDLY by her 18 year old boyfriend. Now what makes this crazy is the two kids were apparently out all night Saturday night, and her parents called the boy Sunday morning to come over to the house and talk about it. The boy TOOK a gun with him, and after an hour long discussion, shot the parents in the head (in front of 3 of their 5 children), kidnapped the 14 year old girl, and then took off. They were found Monday in Indiana, and have since been returned to the state.

I don't know about many of you, as you are not as close to this story as I am, but shouldn't ANY amount of pre-meditation (i.e. him taking a gun with him to have a discussion with her parents) make it an automatic capital case? He INTENDED to do something with that gun, even before he went over to their house, otherwise he'd have never taken it.

But I can see it now, people are going to sympathize with an 18 year old boy... oh woe is him.. what would drive him to that point? Nevermind the fact that 5 kids don't have their parents, and 3 of them witnessed the whole damn thing.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by debate_junkie:
But I can see it now, people are going to sympathize with an 18 year old boy... oh woe is him.. what would drive him to that point? Nevermind the fact that 5 kids don't have their parents, and 3 of them witnessed the whole damn thing.

Unless you look at the causal factors that got him to that point, you cannot begin to understand the problem that needs to be addressed. And neither can you "nevermind the fact..." of what he did. He has to answer for is own actions. He chose them out of free will.

Don't fall into that trap of thinking all criminals think the same and are of the same mindset. And what of the ones that truly repent. I don't know if your religious or not, but if you are, and say these people do not deserve anything, on some level you are right, on others, would you pray to Charles Manson? That might sound like it came out of left field, but I have a point I am leading up too.

 

[HTColeman]

Vis'a'vis



Nice.

You guys are ignorant, honestly, you think you're making an argument, but you're not, you have know idea what skilmatic is talking about.

I of course voted yes as I said I would. Even though its against my own argument.

It is against his own argument in another thread that none of you know apparently know anything about. Go see the 'Afrimerican racism plain sight thing' post, and then realize how foolish you sound while trying to sound smug.

Oh yeah, skilmatic, I don't believe I said most Americans, I said, many Americans. Not a big deal, but just covering my ass.

 

[debate_junkie]

Unless you look at the causal factors that got him to that point, you cannot begin to understand the problem that needs to be addressed. And neither can you "nevermind the fact..." of what he did. He has to answer for is own actions. He chose them out of free will.

Don't fall into that trap of thinking all criminals think the same and are of the same mindset. And what of the ones that truly repent. I don't know if your religious or not, but if you are, and say these people do not deserve anything, on some level you are right, on others, would you pray to Charles Manson? That might sound like it came out of left field, but I have a point I am leading up too.

I'm far from religious, and since you mentioned Charlie Manson, he should have been executed, as well as each of his followers that participated in the Tate-LaBianca murders.

 

[libertarian_knight]

An Eye for an Eye makes everyone go Blind, and in the land of the Blind the one eyed man is King.

 

[SKILMATIC]

You guys are ignorant, honestly, you think you're making an argument, but you're not, you have know idea what skilmatic is talking about.



It is against his own argument in another thread that none of you know apparently know anything about. Go see the 'Afrimerican racism plain sight thing' post, and then realize how foolish you sound while trying to sound smug.

Oh yeah, skilmatic, I don't believe I said most Americans, I said, many Americans. Not a big deal, but just covering my ass.

I appreciate that. Thank you.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by debate_junkie:
I'm far from religious, and since you mentioned Charlie Manson, he should have been executed, as well as each of his followers that participated in the Tate-LaBianca murders.

I'm against the death penalty. But I also think that Manson and his family should never see the light of day in society again. I do find it interesting the religious right being pro-capital punishment while having St. Paul as one of their saints some pray too. I was raised a Catholic, so I'm kind of up on this particular dogma. Do you know who St. Paul was before he was St. Paul? He was a lot worse than Manson ever was. And people pray to this guy. Interesting how selective we are on who we forgive. And for the record, no, I would not forgive Manson.

 

[debate_junkie]

I'm against the death penalty. But I also think that Manson and his family should never see the light of day in society again. I do find it interesting the religious right being pro-capital punishment while having St. Paul as one of their saints some pray too. I was raised a Catholic, so I'm kind of up on this particular dogma. Do you know who St. Paul was before he was St. Paul? He was a lot worse than Manson ever was. And people pray to this guy. Interesting how selective we are on who we forgive. And for the record, no, I would not forgive Manson.

I was raised Catholic, too. Yes, I know who Paul was, he was a murderer, the holder of the stones as Stephen was stoned to death. I could care less about religious dogma, because to me, it all means nothing. But, in defense of it, those who believe whole heartedly in religion, believe people have the power to change, and convert their lives to Christ. I often see deathbed, or jailhouse conversions are often done out of fear... because they know there's no way out of their present situation, so they turn to God in hopes of somehow absolving their "sin", and then that somehow makes it all ok.

Manson, is unforgivable. Any murderer, in my mind, is unforgivable. Like I said previously, if one is not defending their own lives, or the lives of their family, they shouldn't be given a pass, period. The death penalty, in my mind, though admitting it is not a deterrent, should remain in effect, because if the victim is unable to breathe, the one who ended their lives shouldn't breathe either. I see it as black and white. I'm sorry. My cousin was murdered, in front of her then 2 year old daughter, and they've yet to find who did it. It's indefensible, and if that's vengence, so be it.

I believe in what goes around, comes around. If one is going to kill, then they too should see the same fate.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by debate_junkie:
I was raised Catholic, too. Yes, I know who Paul was, he was a murderer, the holder of the stones as Stephen was stoned to death. I could care less about religious dogma, because to me, it all means nothing. But, in defense of it, those who believe whole heartedly in religion, believe people have the power to change, and convert their lives to Christ. I often see deathbed, or jailhouse conversions are often done out of fear... because they know there's no way out of their present situation, so they turn to God in hopes of somehow absolving their "sin", and then that somehow makes it all ok.

Manson, is unforgivable. Any murderer, in my mind, is unforgivable. Like I said previously, if one is not defending their own lives, or the lives of their family, they shouldn't be given a pass, period. The death penalty, in my mind, though admitting it is not a deterrent, should remain in effect, because if the victim is unable to breathe, the one who ended their lives shouldn't breathe either. I see it as black and white. I'm sorry. My cousin was murdered, in front of her then 2 year old daughter, and they've yet to find who did it. It's indefensible, and if that's vengence, so be it.

I believe in what goes around, comes around. If one is going to kill, then they too should see the same fate.

I couldn't even begin to imagine what that is like. I'm very sorry for your loss.

Your comments are always welcome. I just hope their not all like this one.

 

[debate_junkie]

I couldn't even begin to imagine what that is like. I'm very sorry for your loss.

Your comments are always welcome. I just hope their not all like this one.

No actually.. they're not all like this one. I can bend to see other sides of issues most of the time. The death penalty is one that I cannot, because it has struck so close to home. You say you cannot imagine what it's like, and then in the next breath wish my comments weren't like this. Well, this is reality in my family, and this is how most of us feel. Some have been willing to forgive.. I cannot because she and I were born less than 2 months apart, and for most of our 31 years together... we were inseparable. I can excuse many things.... but murder and child molestors are reprehensible, and indefensible. If my feelings are too harsh, so be it. But they are what they are.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by debate_junkie:
No actually.. they're not all like this one. I can bend to see other sides of issues most of the time. The death penalty is one that I cannot, because it has struck so close to home. You say you cannot imagine what it's like, and then in the next breath wish my comments weren't like this. Well, this is reality in my family, and this is how most of us feel. Some have been willing to forgive.. I cannot because she and I were born less than 2 months apart, and for most of our 31 years together... we were inseparable. I can excuse many things.... but murder and child molestors are reprehensible, and indefensible. If my feelings are too harsh, so be it. But they are what they are.

It's understandable. If that happened to someone close to me, I would probably feel the same way. The reason I'm against the death penalty is because it doesn't do anything to solve the problem of murder. There has never been a violent baby born in the history of mankind. Something happens between birth and the crime that has changed that person to choose violence. I don't have any answers on this one. But I do know that it is not used fairly in our judicial system. They don't give this punishment to the wealthy. They murder too. But not one rich guy has ever been executed. O.J. is a perfect example.

 

[GarzaUK]

I can excuse many things.... but murder and child molestors are reprehensible, and indefensible. If my feelings are too harsh, so be it. But they are what they are.

I am too sorry for your loss. I have been fortunate not to loss anyone in that manner before.

A question. If a man kills lets say my wife in front of my eyes and in my rage I kill him. Does that make the murder I commit indefensible? My anger with my rationale out the window. I would be charged of murder wouldn't I, as the law would dicatate. There is a thin line sometimes between justice and vengence BUT they are different.

 

[debate_junkie]

I am too sorry for your loss. I have been fortunate not to loss anyone in that manner before.

A question. If a man kills lets say my wife in front of my eyes and in my rage I kill him. Does that make the murder I commit indefensible? My anger with my rationale out the window. I would be charged of murder wouldn't I, as the law would dicatate. There is a thin line sometimes between justice and vengence BUT they are different.

If you killed the idiot in defense of your wife, that would be considered self defense, because 9 times out of 10 he'd be trying to take you both out. However, in the scenario, you lay out.... you are taking the law into your own hands... and that I don't condone.