Extremely detailed analysis of the Kenosha shooting by a lawyer

[aociswundumho]

I'm putting this amazing write up in the gun control section because it is interspersed with advice and comments from a lawyer about exercising your right to self-defense.


The Kenosha Shootings / Kyle Rittenhouse: A Tactical and Legal Analysis: UPDATED: 1st Shooter ID'd? - AR15.COM

 

[Parrish]

I'm putting this amazing write up in the gun control section because it is interspersed with advice and comments from a lawyer about exercising your right to self-defense.


The Kenosha Shootings / Kyle Rittenhouse: A Tactical and Legal Analysis: UPDATED: 1st Shooter ID'd? - AR15.COM

:lamo

 

[Barnacle]

I'm putting this amazing write up in the gun control section because it is interspersed with advice and comments from a lawyer about exercising your right to self-defense.
The Kenosha Shootings / Kyle Rittenhouse: A Tactical and Legal Analysis: UPDATED: 1st Shooter ID'd? - AR15.COM

It took a while to read through all this and I'm left with one question: Was the first guy (head shot) killed by Rittenhouse?

 

[Serenity]

It's a link to another forum from a post of a guy who declares this.

Given the sudden merger of two subjects of great interest to me, and a five hour phone call I had with an old acquaintance now an employee of the Federal Government of the United States based not far from Wisconsin, I could not but look into the Engagements more carefully. Having done so, I could not but type up my analysis. Having done so I could not but seek a forum for publication.


Alas, my efforts to interest the American Journal of Jurisprudence The American Journal of Jurisprudence | Oxford Academic resulted in threats of a restraining order (I am convinced that a prior incident, in theory long forgotten, involving a senior official at the Law School of the University of Notre Dame, a poker game, and a young woman with binoculars may have contributed to the misunderstanding). Naturally, having exhausted my backup options, I reverted to my first choice in scholarly publication excellence: ARFCOM.

Oh my. Not sure of the accuracy in his reporting, I've already said I'll wait for official findings but it's kinda hard to get past those comments. He sounds unhinged.

 

[PirateMk1]

It took a while to read through all this and I'm left with one question: Was the first guy (head shot) killed by Rittenhouse?

The head shot was a graze and there were other shots fired so there will have to be a ballistics analysis to get a better idea of if the first guy was shot exclusively by Rittenhouse. There were people saying the first guy was shot in the back which may or may not be true. All we know for sure is that Rittenhouses assailent closed with him and was in close quarters contact when he was shot.

 

[iguanaman]

The head shot was a graze and there were other shots fired so there will have to be a ballistics analysis to get a better idea of if the first guy was shot exclusively by Rittenhouse. There were people saying the first guy was shot in the back which may or may not be true. All we know for sure is that Rittenhouses assailent closed with him and was in close quarters contact when he was shot.

I don't think you can claim self-defense with an illegal gun can you? He is already guilty of a felony because he's a minor that carried a gun across State lines. He was a felon the entire time he was at the protest too. It is illegal for a 17 year old to carry a gun in public.

"One, of course, is simply being 17-years-old and walking the streets of Wisconsin with an open carry firearm, that in and of itself is illegal," says Cotton.

He notes that if the gun was transported in a concealed way, then the shooter would be violating the CCW laws in Wisconsin as soon as he arrived in the state.

"There may also, frankly, be federal laws that he's violated because he crossed state lines with a gun that definitely was manufactured in interstate commerce," Cotton says.

When Open Carry Turns Fatal: Kenosha Unrest Shooting Raises Questions About Wisconsin Gun Laws | WUWM

 

[SkyFox76]

I'm still reading this and it does offer some good screen shots and maybe connecting some dots like who fired the shot in the air.

But really? What I've thought every time I've seen this guy in the pinkish shirt (I watched him on video yesterday when he was on camera at some point, and had a baseball bat) but how the hell tall is that man? He's one of those people that you just want to say HOW THE HELL TALL ARE YOU? :shock:

 

[Chips]

Oh my. Not sure of the accuracy in his reporting, I've already said I'll wait for official findings but it's kinda hard to get past those comments. He sounds unhinged.

Considering the flowery language the author used to describe Rittenhouse:

"Based on the videos I've seen Rittenhouse is one of the best weapons handlers under pressure I've ever seen."

and the dismissive language used to describe the other actors involved:

"prison-hardened and clearly aggressively disposed Short Bald Subject"

I'd say the author is also biased. Especially considering the lengthly negative reporting he did on the backgrounds of several subjects, while failing to do so with Rittenhouse.

 

[Barnacle]

Considering the flowery language the author used to describe Rittenhouse:
"Based on the videos I've seen Rittenhouse is one of the best weapons handlers under pressure I've ever seen."
and the dismissive language used to describe the other actors involved:
"prison-hardened and clearly aggressively disposed Short Bald Subject"

I'd say the author is also biased. Especially considering the lengthly negative reporting he did on the backgrounds of several subjects, while failing to do so with Rittenhouse.

What lengthy negative background reporting about Rittenhouse did you expect?

 

[Chips]

What lengthy negative background reporting about Rittenhouse did you expect?

Well:

That he dropped out of high-school.

That he was recently turned away from the Marines.

That he was recently cited for driving without a valid drivers license.

That he is not an EMT, contrary to his statements just prior to the shooting.

Etc. Etc. Etc.

 

[PirateMk1]

I'm putting this amazing write up in the gun control section because it is interspersed with advice and comments from a lawyer about exercising your right to self-defense.


The Kenosha Shootings / Kyle Rittenhouse: A Tactical and Legal Analysis: UPDATED: 1st Shooter ID'd? - AR15.COM

The sarcasm is strong with that one.

 

[Chips]

What lengthy negative background reporting about Rittenhouse did you expect?

Honestly, he very closely fits the standard description of mass-shooter.

And to be fair to those who pursued him on the scene, I believe it would be very easy to articulate as much.

 

[PirateMk1]

I don't think you can claim self-defense with an illegal gun can you? He is already guilty of a felony because he's a minor that carried a gun across State lines. He was a felon the entire time he was at the protest too. It is illegal for a 17 year old to carry a gun in public.



When Open Carry Turns Fatal: Kenosha Unrest Shooting Raises Questions About Wisconsin Gun Laws | WUWM

I suggest you read the New York Times analysis or this one. They will clarify for you the actual situation. Its is not what you think.

 

[Captain Adverse]

I'm putting this amazing write up in the gun control section because it is interspersed with advice and comments from a lawyer about exercising your right to self-defense.


The Kenosha Shootings / Kyle Rittenhouse: A Tactical and Legal Analysis: UPDATED: 1st Shooter ID'd? - AR15.COM

I read through the entire thing, and reviewed all the video evidence. I note that the item thrown at Rittenhouse at the start of the incident was a plastic bag, which appears to have contained some cylindrical heavy object. But it was not inflamed.

I agree with both the analysis of the series of events, and that Rittenhouse has a good basis for a self-defense claim against those murder and attempted murder charges.

IMO the Wisconsin Prosecutor is posting these major charges publicly (and rapidly) to try to prevent more rioting via perceived "inaction."

 

[PirateMk1]

I'm still reading this and it does offer some good screen shots and maybe connecting some dots like who fired the shot in the air.

But really? What I've thought every time I've seen this guy in the pinkish shirt (I watched him on video yesterday when he was on camera at some point, and had a baseball bat) but how the hell tall is that man? He's one of those people that you just want to say HOW THE HELL TALL ARE YOU? :shock:

View attachment 67293389

I might be a big man amongst little people.

 

[PirateMk1]

I read through the entire thing, and reviewed all the video evidence. I agree with both the analysis of the series of events, and that Rittenhouse has a good basis for a self-defense claim against those murder and attempted murder charges.

IMO the Wisconsin Prosecutor is posting these major charges publicly (and rapidly) to try to prevent more rioting via perceived "inaction."

Like the guy said it rare you get something so clear cut. The kid actually got very lucky with all those recordings around. Its gona save his bacon and then some.

 

[Chips]

Like the guy said it rare you get something so clear cut. The kid actually got very lucky with all those recordings around. Its gona save his bacon and then some.

That might be the case, if he hadn't intentionally placed himself there with an illegal firearm.

However, the pretext for his presence at the scene of the first shooting completely negates the self-defense claim he will certainly make.

 

[Captain Adverse]

It's a link to another forum from a post of a guy who declares this.




Oh my. Not sure of the accuracy in his reporting, I've already said I'll wait for official findings but it's kinda hard to get past those comments. He sounds unhinged.

I believe he was trying to be humorous. That comment gave me pause for a second until I re-read and noted his sarcastic nature in various portions throughout the analysis.

 

[LosAngelesAngel]

~ The lesson learned here for all boys and girls :
DO NOT BE AGGRESIVE WITH SOMEONE HOLDING A RIFLE !

I kind of wish the kid was wearing a sign like this :

 

[Chips]

~ The lesson learned here for all boys and girls :
DO NOT BE AGGRESIVE WITH SOMEONE HOLDING A RIFLE !

I kind of wish the kid was wearing a sign like this :
View attachment 67293391

I don't know, seems like the courageous thing to do:
France train shooting: Hollande thanks 'heroes' who foiled gunman - BBC News

 

[Chips]

~ The lesson learned here for all boys and girls :
DO NOT BE AGGRESIVE WITH SOMEONE HOLDING A RIFLE !

I kind of wish the kid was wearing a sign like this :
View attachment 67293391

For all we know, those people pursuing him prevented Rittenhouse from going on a much more deadly shooting spree.

 

[jdog21]

I don't think you can claim self-defense with an illegal gun can you? He is already guilty of a felony because he's a minor that carried a gun across State lines. He was a felon the entire time he was at the protest too. It is illegal for a 17 year old to carry a gun in public.



When Open Carry Turns Fatal: Kenosha Unrest Shooting Raises Questions About Wisconsin Gun Laws | WUWM

It's not a felony to carry a gun across state lines. A minor in possession of a gun is state crime in both where it happened and in his home state but it’s only a misdemeanor. And lastly even a convicted criminal who isn’t legal allowed to possess a gun can have a stolen gun and still use that weapon in self-defense. Just because you commit the crime of having a weapon doesn’t relinquish your rights to using it to protect yourself from bodily harm or iminent death.

 

[apdst]

Here's Colion Noir's take...

 

[apdst]

I don't think you can claim self-defense with an illegal gun can you? He is already guilty of a felony because he's a minor that carried a gun across State lines. He was a felon the entire time he was at the protest too. It is illegal for a 17 year old to carry a gun in public.



When Open Carry Turns Fatal: Kenosha Unrest Shooting Raises Questions About Wisconsin Gun Laws | WUWM

That isn't a crime, much less a felony. Stop lying.

 

[Integrityrespec]

I don't think you can claim self-defense with an illegal gun can you? He is already guilty of a felony because he's a minor that carried a gun across State lines. He was a felon the entire time he was at the protest too. It is illegal for a 17 year old to carry a gun in public.



When Open Carry Turns Fatal: Kenosha Unrest Shooting Raises Questions About Wisconsin Gun Laws | WUWM

Whether the gun is legal or illegal has nothing to do with self defense.