Extradition of Julian Assange undermines freedom of speech

[Tigerace117]

I don't have enough facts to make a judgement on the holocaust, I deal in facts not emotions, but I know the 4 million Jews that supposedly died in WW1 is an exaggeration , and I also know the 6 million Jews that supposedly died in WW2 to be an exaggeration.
I try to use my logic and basic intelligence to make decisions, not threat intimidation, or insult! As you and your sidekick repeatedly attempt, to protect Israel and Zionism from any scrutiny of crimes against humanity, or there actions on humanity in general! There corruption of the American constitution and rights of Americans. But you have the right to defend the indefenceable,
I have the right to highlight the fact! Have a nice day.

You haven’t presented any “facts“ in the first place. Like all holocaust deniers you have nothing but warped fantasies and anti Semitic delusions. You have presented no credible evidence(because it doesn’t exist) that anything about the Holocaust was “exaggerated“. As usual, your posts are nothing more than incoherent whining.

 

[Jean-s]

You haven’t presented any “facts“ in the first place. Like all holocaust deniers you have nothing but warped fantasies and anti Semitic delusions. You have presented no credible evidence(because it doesn’t exist) that anything about the Holocaust was “exaggerated“. As usual, your posts are nothing more than incoherent whining.

Please quit derailing this thread about Julian Assange by banging on about the Final Solution. You got plenty of facts about Assange's victimization to keep you busy.

 

[Fledermaus]

Please quit derailing this thread about Julian Assange by banging on about the Final Solution. You got plenty of facts about Assange's victimization to keep you busy.

Assange's "victimization" is of his own doing...

 

[Peter King]

Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva (former president of Brazil) champions the cause of Julian Assange.

"The British courts will soon be deciding the fate of the Australian journalist Julian Assange, a man who has been unjustly charged as a criminal. Assange committed no crime. He is a champion of the cause of freedom. The UK will say whether it will accept or deny the request for the extradition of Assange to the US, where he will face 18 charges brought against him by the government of that country. If he is extradited, Assange, 49, could be tried and sentenced to up to 175 years in prison, the equivalent of a life sentence. We must keep this outrage from happening. I call on all those committed to the cause of freedom of speech in every corner of the world to join me in an international effort to defend the innocence of Assange and demand his immediate release."
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...lian-assange-wikileaks-democracy-not-criminal

Assange is being scapegoated for providing evidence of American war crimes to various newspapers who carried the story yet no editors or reporters from El País, Le Monde, The Guardian, Der Spiegel, and The New York Times is wanted by the Trump administration. These publications should be among the first to be defending Assange and not just reporting on what the English court is doing.

I am a lefty and believe in free speech but I also believe in the right of the government to temporarily limit releasing of dangerous or personal data that can and should be kept secret. If someone want to declassify that they should petition a court, not steal it or post stolen/illegally obtained files so randomly. Now if a journalist was doing something to expose a story of vital importance then yes, a journalist can post from those files if needed. Just releasing them is not the way forward. Every government has national security secrets than can and must be kept in most circumstances.

 

[Highlanders]

You haven’t presented any “facts“ in the first place. Like all holocaust deniers you have nothing but warped fantasies and anti Semitic delusions. You have presented no credible evidence(because it doesn’t exist) that anything about the Holocaust was “exaggerated“. As usual, your posts are nothing more than incoherent whining.

And you my friend behave as usual like an empty drum!
How on earth could I prove some there are no facts to make a logical decision! Christ, are you unable to think for yourself?

 

[Tigerace117]

Please quit derailing this thread about Julian Assange by banging on about the Final Solution. You got plenty of facts about Assange's victimization to keep you busy.

Assange was victimized by no one.....not even the oh so evil Ecuadorians who horrifically abused him by asking him to look after his cat.

You still haven’t figured out that you aren’t the thread police. The fact that a Holocaust denier is such a huge fan of your hero Assange is absolutely relevant.

 

[Tigerace117]

And you my friend behave as usual like an empty drum!
How on earth could I prove some there are no facts to make a logical decision! Christ, are you unable to think for yourself?

Oh look, the guy who regurgitates conspiracy theories debunked decades ago is trying to accuse others of “being unable to think for themselves”. Too funny.

There are no facts supporting Holocaust denial.....as I said. And your premise has nothing to do with “logic”.

 

[Jean-s]

I am a lefty and believe in free speech but I also believe in the right of the government to temporarily limit releasing of dangerous or personal data that can and should be kept secret. If someone want to declassify that they should petition a court, not steal it or post stolen/illegally obtained files so randomly. Now if a journalist was doing something to expose a story of vital importance then yes, a journalist can post from those files if needed. Just releasing them is not the way forward. Every government has national security secrets than can and must be kept in most circumstances.

I expect you got some propaganda via the CIA to suggest that Julian Assange released dirty secrets of the Americans for all to read. This is not what I wrote. You missed my last two sentences. "Assange is being scapegoated for providing evidence of American war crimes to various newspapers who carried the story yet no editors or reporters from El País, Le Monde, The Guardian, Der Spiegel, and The New York Times is wanted by the Trump administration. These publications should be among the first to be defending Assange and not just reporting on what the English court is doing." As you can see, the pertinent information was given to the editors of respected newspapers and those professionals decided what the public needed to know as well as observing editorial ethics. No-one from these publications was persecuted like Julian Assange by the CIA or MI5.

 

[Jean-s]

Assange was victimized by no one.....not even the oh so evil Ecuadorians who horrifically abused him by asking him to look after his cat.

You still haven’t figured out that you aren’t the thread police. The fact that a Holocaust denier is such a huge fan of your hero Assange is absolutely relevant.

Please stop derailing this thread by being a broken record about Julian Assange's cat or the Final Solution. Have some manners please.

 

[Highlanders]

Oh look, the guy who regurgitates conspiracy theories debunked decades ago is trying to accuse others of “being unable to think for themselves”. Too funny.

There are no facts supporting Holocaust denial.....as I said. And your premise has nothing to do with “logic”.

No facts..... mmmmm..... now, just you go look at the facts, obviously there are historical records that call into question the information and official narrative as known at this time! But you expect me to be as daft to be bullied into acceptance, where s my democratic right to have my own opinions, what right have you to be bullyed into a corner by the likes of you, demanding my acceptance of your dogma! No, we aren't behaving like an animal, we will make educated assumptions. I don't know the facts, as I said before, but I read history which obviously, you don't! How's your history degree ...... festering or on rocky grounds!

 

[Highlanders]

I expect you got some propaganda via the CIA to suggest that Julian Assange released dirty secrets of the Americans for all to read. This is not what I wrote. You missed my last two sentences. "Assange is being scapegoated for providing evidence of American war crimes to various newspapers who carried the story yet no editors or reporters from El País, Le Monde, The Guardian, Der Spiegel, and The New York Times is wanted by the Trump administration. These publications should be among the first to be defending Assange and not just reporting on what the English court is doing." As you can see, the pertinent information was given to the editors of respected newspapers and those professionals decided what the public needed to know as well as observing editorial ethics. No-one from these publications was persecuted like Julian Assange by the CIA or MI5.

Not at all, I fully agree with your point of view in all of its aspects. Sorry I didnt make myself clear on the matter

 

[Peter King]

I expect you got some propaganda via the CIA to suggest that Julian Assange released dirty secrets of the Americans for all to read. This is not what I wrote. You missed my last two sentences. "Assange is being scapegoated for providing evidence of American war crimes to various newspapers who carried the story yet no editors or reporters from El País, Le Monde, The Guardian, Der Spiegel, and The New York Times is wanted by the Trump administration. These publications should be among the first to be defending Assange and not just reporting on what the English court is doing." As you can see, the pertinent information was given to the editors of respected newspapers and those professionals decided what the public needed to know as well as observing editorial ethics. No-one from these publications was persecuted like Julian Assange by the CIA or MI5.

Nope, no CIA propaganda, but the fact is that governments should be able to keep secret information classified if they have a good reason to do so. Assange is not a journalist and he does not really do this as free speech, especially when he started playing politics and spreading hacked information obtained by the Ruskies.

 

[Jean-s]

Not at all, I fully agree with your point of view in all of its aspects. Sorry I didnt make myself clear on the matter

I was replying to Peter King's post, not yours, Highlander.

 

[Jean-s]

Nope, no CIA propaganda, but the fact is that governments should be able to keep secret information classified if they have a good reason to do so. Assange is not a journalist and he does not really do this as free speech, especially when he started playing politics and spreading hacked information obtained by the Ruskies.

Fine but governments should not keep war crimes secret because they do not want to be embarrassed.

 

[Fledermaus]

And you my friend behave as usual like an empty drum!
How on earth could I prove some there are no facts to make a logical decision! Christ, are you unable to think for yourself?

You refuse to look at the facts.

Still waiting for to back up your many claims......

 

[Fledermaus]

No facts..... mmmmm..... now, just you go look at the facts, obviously there are historical records that call into question the information and official narrative as known at this time! But you expect me to be as daft to be bullied into acceptance, where s my democratic right to have my own opinions, what right have you to be bullyed into a corner by the likes of you, demanding my acceptance of your dogma! No, we aren't behaving like an animal, we will make educated assumptions. I don't know the facts, as I said before, but I read history which obviously, you don't! How's your history degree ...... festering or on rocky grounds!

Still waiting for your evidence.

I have given you some but your refused to look at it.

 

[Tigerace117]

Please stop derailing this thread by being a broken record about Julian Assange's cat or the Final Solution. Have some manners please.

Julian Assange declared the Ecuadorians were “violating his rights” by asking him to clean up after his cat. You can cry all you want, but it doesn’t change the fact that your hero is a colossal scumbag.

 

[Tigerace117]

No facts..... mmmmm..... now, just you go look at the facts, obviously there are historical records that call into question the information and official narrative as known at this time! But you expect me to be as daft to be bullied into acceptance, where s my democratic right to have my own opinions, what right have you to be bullyed into a corner by the likes of you, demanding my acceptance of your dogma! No, we aren't behaving like an animal, we will make educated assumptions. I don't know the facts, as I said before, but I read history which obviously, you don't! How's your history degree ...... festering or on rocky grounds!

Nope, actually there aren’t. There are very stupid people who deliberately misinterpret records and think they’ve “called things into question” but their claims have been debunked....repeatedly.

And others have the democratic right to point our how idiotic your claims are.

You certainly don’t know the facts, indeed.

As every bit of laughably ignorant garbage you spew shows.

 

[post]

August 2, 2016 email from Jerome Corsi to Roger Stone (and by the way, Corsi was rather tight with Joseph Farah. Both Trump's campaign "press liason", Erin Perrine, and Farah's daughter, Alyssa, new White House Communications Director, and that campaign press liason are interesting, coincidental Trump "picks". The campaign liason happens to be the former assistant to the head of the NRA and was the person who coordinated Maria Butina's "intake" into the NRA inner circle.

Lawmakers launch new probe into 'complex web' of alleged ...
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/law...omplex-web-alleged-ties-nra/story?id=61137356
Internal emails obtained by ABC News show that an NRA employee, Nicholas Perrine, worked directly with Butina to coordinate travel arrangements for the trip's attendees.

Erin Perrine Wikipedia, Age, Husband, Married, Salary, Net Worth, Brother - Wiki Plus Bio - Celebrity Biography, Entertainment and Gossip

Learn about Erin Perrine's Wikipedia, Age, Birthday, Husband, Married, Salary, Net Worth, Brother, Trump 2020, Parents, Family, Instagram & more.

wikiplusbio.com

Inside the spectacular fall of WorldNetDaily, the ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...c53122-3ba6-11e9-a06c-3ec8ed509d15_story.html
Apr 2, 2019Then and now, Farah has attracted well-known figures to write for the site, including Jerome Corsi, who wrote a book questioning Obama's eligibility to be president and is a key witness in the ...

New analysis of that August 2, email, along with an image of it, are here,

https://www.emptywheel.net/2020/10/...ce-about-the-content-of-john-podestas-emails/

Relevant analysis:

"....Nevertheless this email has been taken as the means by which Corsi informed Stone that the upcoming WikiLeaks dump involved files stolen from John Podesta.

It’s only much later in the email when Corsi says, “Time to let more than Podesta to be exposed as in bed w enemy.” The reference to Podesta would be incomprehensible to Stone if it were his first notice that WikiLeaks was going to drop emails stolen from Hillary’s campaign manager. Moreover, Corsi wouldn’t bury it in the sixth paragraph if it were new news, particularly not given that the right wing oppo researchers Steve Bannon paid, the Government Accountability Institute, had just days earlier released a report that focused on John Podesta. Indeed, it’s even possible that the email doesn’t reflect advance knowledge of the Podesta emails, but was instead a reference to that report.

There’s no reason to believe that the Podesta reference in this email was news to Stone.

Corsi put the new news — that the dumps were coming shortly after he was scheduled to return from Italy on August 12, and then again in October — in the second paragraph. And as some of the affidavits described obliquely — but which did not get mentioned in any of the other three Roger Stone stories — the timing of both those predictions was absolutely correct...."


"

 

[Peter King]

Fine but governments should not keep war crimes secret because they do not want to be embarrassed.

Depends, if your troops are still needed there to prevent an even bigger catastrophe or mass murder, well sometimes you have to take decisions to keep things secret that ought to be exposed. But for that we have journalists. Now if Assange would make such facts known to journalists, well then that is fine. Just blurting them out on the internet? I debate the wisdom of such a choice.

 

[Highlanders]

Nope, actually there aren’t. There are very stupid people who deliberately misinterpret records and think they’ve “called things into question” but their claims have been debunked....repeatedly.

And others have the democratic right to point our how idiotic your claims are.

You certainly don’t know the facts, indeed.

As every bit of laughably ignorant garbage you spew shows.

Hey, I thought you are completing a history degree....where is the impartiality, the analysis of facts? I think... you're full of bs, isn't that a nice way of calling you a liar?
No, unlike you, I'm not prepared to follow sheep, into a slaughterhouse, But them I don't have your axe to grind or bigotry, or parochial bias, that's certainly not "democratic",
But you and your sidekick can keep trying to polish a turd! Me, I'll just call a you both out you for your lack of understanding, but I think that's your environment, and your pal, for hating America and Americans rights.

 

[Highlanders]

August 2, 2016 email from Jerome Corsi to Roger Stone (and by the way, Corsi was rather tight with Joseph Farah. Both Trump's campaign "press liason", Erin Perrine, and Farah's daughter, Alyssa, new White House Communications Director, and that campaign press liason are interesting, coincidental Trump "picks". The campaign liason happens to be the former assistant to the head of the NRA and was the person who coordinated Maria Butina's "intake" into the NRA inner circle.

Lawmakers launch new probe into 'complex web' of alleged ...
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/law...omplex-web-alleged-ties-nra/story?id=61137356
Internal emails obtained by ABC News show that an NRA employee, Nicholas Perrine, worked directly with Butina to coordinate travel arrangements for the trip's attendees.

Erin Perrine Wikipedia, Age, Husband, Married, Salary, Net Worth, Brother - Wiki Plus Bio - Celebrity Biography, Entertainment and Gossip

Learn about Erin Perrine's Wikipedia, Age, Birthday, Husband, Married, Salary, Net Worth, Brother, Trump 2020, Parents, Family, Instagram & more.

wikiplusbio.com

Inside the spectacular fall of WorldNetDaily, the ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...c53122-3ba6-11e9-a06c-3ec8ed509d15_story.html
Apr 2, 2019Then and now, Farah has attracted well-known figures to write for the site, including Jerome Corsi, who wrote a book questioning Obama's eligibility to be president and is a key witness in the ...

New analysis of that August 2, email, along with an image of it, are here,

https://www.emptywheel.net/2020/10/...ce-about-the-content-of-john-podestas-emails/

Relevant analysis:

"....Nevertheless this email has been taken as the means by which Corsi informed Stone that the upcoming WikiLeaks dump involved files stolen from John Podesta.

It’s only much later in the email when Corsi says, “Time to let more than Podesta to be exposed as in bed w enemy.” The reference to Podesta would be incomprehensible to Stone if it were his first notice that WikiLeaks was going to drop emails stolen from Hillary’s campaign manager. Moreover, Corsi wouldn’t bury it in the sixth paragraph if it were new news, particularly not given that the right wing oppo researchers Steve Bannon paid, the Government Accountability Institute, had just days earlier released a report that focused on John Podesta. Indeed, it’s even possible that the email doesn’t reflect advance knowledge of the Podesta emails, but was instead a reference to that report.

There’s no reason to believe that the Podesta reference in this email was news to Stone.

Corsi put the new news — that the dumps were coming shortly after he was scheduled to return from Italy on August 12, and then again in October — in the second paragraph. And as some of the affidavits described obliquely — but which did not get mentioned in any of the other three Roger Stone stories — the timing of both those predictions was absolutely correct...."


"

By clasping hands with Netanyahu, ‘top cop’ Kamala Harris whitewashes Israel’s racism - The Grayzone

A friendly meeting California senator and self-declared "top cop" Kamala Harris held with Israel's right-wing Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu shows she is more than willing to throw anti-racism — and Palestinians — under the bus. By Hamzah Raza / AlterNet's Grayzone Project (December 12, 2017)...

thegrayzone.com

You cannot trust the American government as it's owned!

 

[Jean-s]

Depends, if your troops are still needed there to prevent an even bigger catastrophe or mass murder, well sometimes you have to take decisions to keep things secret that ought to be exposed. But for that we have journalists. Now if Assange would make such facts known to journalists, well then that is fine. Just blurting them out on the internet? I debate the wisdom of such a choice.

I disagree. When citizens allow their governments to keep their war crimes secret then they deserve public and international shaming and prosecution before the courts. There can be no equivocation when it comes to war crimes and crimes against humanity. The light of day needs to be shone on shameful conduct. Otherwise, we would never have known about the Srebrenica massacre in July 1995 when more than 8000 boys and men were handed over to the Bosnian Serbs by UNPROFOR's Dutch soldiers to be slaughtered.

 

[Jean-s]

Hey, I thought you are completing a history degree....where is the impartiality, the analysis of facts? I think... you're full of bs, isn't that a nice way of calling you a liar?
No, unlike you, I'm not prepared to follow sheep, into a slaughterhouse, But them I don't have your axe to grind or bigotry, or parochial bias, that's certainly not "democratic",
But you and your sidekick can keep trying to polish a turd! Me, I'll just call a you both out you for your lack of understanding, but I think that's your environment, and your pal, for hating America and Americans rights.

No respectable university would award a degree to an out-and-out propagandist.

 

[PoS]

PoS:

Julian Assange published documents, nothing more (despite the hyperbole of others and the absurd accusation of the US Government that telling someone else that you cannot break an in encrypted access key is somehow computer hacking). If Mr. Assange is liable for criminal prosecution for what he did, then so are the editors and boards of directors of the New York Times, La Pais, Le Monde, Der Spiegel, and The Guardian. Setting the precedent that publishing something which somebody else has stolen "is illegal" is a direct attack on the trade of journalism and will gut the ability of the free press to conduct investigative journalism.

I am not an American, but in a sense I am interfering in your 2020 election by strongly attacking one candidate for president and one party for Congress even though I do not think highly of the other candidates and parties involved. My impact is less, but my actions are the same because in the past I have posted (republished) excerpts of stolen documents from third-party sources who have published them (Wikileaks, Panama Papers, Pentagon Papers, etc.). Should I serve 175 years or a fraction thereof in a maximum security prison where I am in solitary confinement for 22 hours a day, where I get one hour of exercise per day and where I cannot even communicate with my legal counsel as I need to,mbecause I am in a Communications Management Unit (CMU)?

You call Mr. Assange a hypocrite and in some ways you are right. But who among us has not shown hypocracy in the course of our lives? Should hypocrites face centuries of jail time simply for being hypocritical? The video I posted made something very clear. Mr. Assange is not a very likeable individual but focusing on that rather than what he actually did will lead to a crippling precedent being set for all journalism. See 1:45 minutes into the video.

You are a writer. Suppose that something which you wrote offended the Laissez Majeste laws of Thailand. Should Thailand have the right to extradite you because you knowingly insulted the monarchy in one of your stories/novels by using leaked documents of its wrongdoing and then lock you up for the rest of your life because you broke a Thai law by interfering with the political process in Thailand? I would argue no. In both your hypothetical case and in Mr. Assange's. USvLaw does not apply and should not apply to Australians working out of Germany and Iceland. That is beyond American legal jurisdiction. Not being satisfied by being the global policeman, folks like Mike Pompeo want to make America the global judge,global juror and global executioner too. That will not stand.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

Assange is more than just a hypocrite, he actively interfered in American elections at the behest of Russia- so in a sense he acted as their direct agent.

It seems you have failed to notice just how selective Assange has been when it came to leaking so-called "truths." He openly said he didnt want Hillary as POTUS and so he only leaked stuff about her, yet nothing about Trump. Nor did he ever dare to leak out anything on Putin.

So if Assange is supposedly the tireless arbiter of truth, why did he pick and choose who he exposed?