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Explaining Why Federal Deficits Are Needed[W:5330]

Gaea said:
Look up the supreme court ruling, "US v Darby Lumber Company"
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Thank you for giving me that ruling which dealt with Interstate commerce. Again the overreach of the federal govt. ignoring the affects of competition on wages as well as ignoring the individual responsibility of the potential employee. Are you ever going to work for minimum wage? It does seem like the Commerce Clause is used a lot by liberals when they want more govt. control over private business.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
If only you could go back to the good old days before all this liberalism when we had sweat shops, 7 day work weeks, and child labor. Let's get all these bureaucrats out of the way, I am sure you could manage to run a successful small business then...
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As usual, more deflection and over reaction. Absolutely stunning on how you and the left have changed this country all in the name of compassion for the worker and no understanding of how that has grown the size and scope of the Federal Govt. States have the authority to regulate their own wages and if there is to be a minimum wage it is at the state level. States have term limits, you don't like what your legislature does, change it by your vote. Running a business is a responsibility including setting wages. Someone dumb enough to pay sub standard wages won't be in business long because they will get substandard employees something you fail to recognize
 
Gaea said:
What does starting a business have to do with globalization and technology reducing the demand for laborers?
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You are ignoring small businesses in small communities none of which are affected by globalization and technology. You are ignoring the cost of going into business because you have never started up a business. Yours is one of thinking with your heart instead for realizing the impact the govt. has on business in terms of cost. Where does personal responsibility rest in your world?
 
Gaea said:
If you answer this question honestly, instead of making up answer that's convenient, you would begin to understand why low-income families have high unemployment, high crime, and a huge drug problem.



That's the best case scenario.



Yes, very few make the federal minimum wage. But here's the reality: out of the 48,753,000 people who earned less than $15,000 in total wages (2014)... 22,860,000 of them were full-time workers.

That's about 14.4% of the workforce who worked full time, and collected less than $15,000 in total wages. The absolute maximum hourly wage a person could make and be considered a full time employee (35+ hours per week) is $8.57. So, it's clear that a minimum wage hike as I proposed would, in fact, impact tens of millions of people, and not "a very few", as you have contended.
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We have a labor force of 151 million Americans, how many make minimum wage and what are their demographics?
 
The Mark said:
That isn't actually the norm.

It's only one example of the various "norms" that exist today. Families with 2 working parents, families with 1 working parent, families with 1 parent period - all that and more exists in thousands of places today.

I was actually curious, and ran across this article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...nce-the-1950s-there-is-no-typical-u-s-family/

Apparently, today, children are being raised in the following situations.:
22% of families are the "traditional" one working parent household.
34% are two parents working.
23% are a single mother raising a child or children.
7% are a single parent living with an unmarried partner - it's not clear in the article how many of these partners fill a parent-like role.
3% are a single father.
3% are being raised by their grandparents


Based on this it would seem that at least 1/4 of all households with children to support are single-parent. It is possible they could survive on less than $15/hr, if full time, and depending on location, but I don't know if they could survive on 7.50/hr.

And if they can't pay all the bills on $7.50/hr, they'll likely need assistance. Probably from the government, in the end.
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Here are the characteristics of a minimum wage worker. It does seem that you and the leftists here believe it is business's responsibility to provide people a livable wage without defining what livable means. Does that mean living at home with parents, being single living in an apartment with a roommate, living in a low cost of living state vs. one like California?

I don't get where this entitlement mentality came from. Do you think people are entitled to a job for life or should they take personal responsibility for dropping out of school, using drugs, making other bad choices and understand they need to start at the bottom and establish some credibility again?

Everything I see here is about the poor employee and nothing about the poor businessman with their own money invested. Do you think someone who shows up late for work all the time, represents the business in a poor manner like abusing customers, steals, does drugs deserves a livable wage as you define it? How about someone who takes on a lot of debt for things like computer, cell phone, HD TV, stereo equipment, nice fancy car, are those part of what you call a livable wage?

Why is it people who never have run a business always know what is best for others who have?

http://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/min...racteristics-of-minimum-wage-workers-2014.pdf
 
Gimmesometruth said:
So....what year was this?
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2000 and if you bothered to look at what happened in North Dakota recently you would see the value of competition. What you and the left seem to believe is we have a very stupid workforce that has to be spoon fed by the Federal Bureaucrats social engineering. it does seem that the left believes people are entitled to a job for life. If you cannot fund your living in your community move to one that is better suited to what you believe you should earn.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
In 2000, yer top hourly pay....was $12/hr? Seriously?
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Top pay? NO, minimum wage in one of my markets, YES! Just like the minimum wage paid in N. Dakota was $14 an hour in certain industries. Competition dictates wages. No businessman goes into any market without understanding the role competition plays and whether or not it is worthwhile to start a business there and makes that decision based upon a number of factors.

You think people are moving to TX to receive low wages, no benefits and breath polluted air? Did you ever stop to think that those who make those claims are doing so out of ignorance?
 
Ganesh said:
I don't know who is talking about two adults and a child here, not me anyway. And whether you played the part of the artful dodger, or lived a model of spartan efficiency is really neither here nor there. We are seeing vast inequality take hold in society today, and it is causing social rifts. Just take a look at the anger on display in this years election. If we see more of current right wing political thinking, then there will be more to come. We need more equality in the distribution of wealth in the nation, and more money in the hands of workers. A modest increase in the minimum wage is one tool for moving closer to this goal.
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The idea of mandates to give the least skilled workers (the bottom 2%?) more to help fight "income inequality" is foolish. What is needed are policies to get the average (median?) workers closer to the top - not get the bottom workers closer to the median workers.
 
Conservative said:
Top pay? NO, minimum wage in one of my markets, YES!
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So now you are saying that you were paying on average, for a min wage employee, in 2000, $12Hr?

What industry were you in, because the top min wage in ND was for oil workers.

Even if we go with yer minimum minimum wage of $7.25hr in 2000, that would be $10.09 now.....which you said was underpaid.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
So now you are saying that you were paying on average, for a min wage employee, in 2000, $12Hr?

What industry were you in, because the top min wage in ND was for oil workers.

Even if we go with yer minimum minimum wage of $7.25hr in 2000, that would be $10.09 now.....which you said was underpaid.
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That is exactly what I am saying, my minimum wage in Columbus, Ohio in 2000 was $12.00 per hour. Prove me wrong?

I have never talked about anyone being under paid because pay is determined by the market something you will never understand

I have a great idea for you, why don't you propose eliminating your state and local govt. have all your pay sent to the Federal govt. so they can send you back what that bureaucrat believes you need?
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Oh, you were a manager, not an owner, of a retail sales business.
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I was a District Manager of 138 retail sites with total P&L responsibility. I managed pay and benefits as part of my responsibilities as well as capital expenses and all daily station operating expenses. That was a 200 million dollar a year business with approximately 1200 employees
 
Conservative said:
That is exactly what I am saying, my minimum wage in Columbus, Ohio in 2000 was $12.00 per hour.
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Ok, yer min wage for a retail sales position in 2000....was $12.



I have never talked about anyone being under paid
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as well as forced to pay 7.25 which underpaid some people
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Ok, yer min wage for a retail sales position in 2000....was $12.




as well as forced to pay 7.25 which underpaid some people
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You don't get it and never will as a big govt. liberal, someone who doesn't understand that a govt. big enough to give you all that you want is also big enough to take it away. You want your freedoms but want to take away a business persons ability to do the same

Wages are market driven which you don't understand. You use charts and graphs out of context and ignoring conditions like those that existed in N. Dakota and Columbus Ohio. You have no understanding of business, competition, the monthly P&L, or even the role of business which ISN'T to employ people but rather to make a profit.

I, unlike you, look at the minimum wage as also the maximum wage. Why would any business person pay above the minimum wage if competition didn't do that as well. Competition paid about minimum wage in Columbus which forced me to do the same thing.

You have shown here that you always think with your heart, try using your brain
 
Conservative said:
You are ignoring small businesses in small communities none of which are affected by globalization and technology.
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LOL

This may be the most ignorant post I've seen from you, and that's saying a lot.
 
Conservative said:
You use charts and graphs out of context and ignoring conditions like those that existed in N. Dakota and Columbus Ohio.
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This is where you get so contradictory in your argument, you argue that MW is distorting wages, yet even in your own experience you were paying above MW.....so I have no idea what beef you have about MW, it was not something that impacted the biz you managed.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
This is where you get so contradictory in your argument, you argue that MW is distorting wages, yet even in your own experience you were paying above MW.....so I have no idea what beef you have about MW, it was not something that impacted the biz you managed.
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Where did I say that minimum wage was distorting wages? you really are having a problem with reading comprehension. I said minimum wages aren't the role of the Federal Govt. but rather the market. Please post where I made that claim. Not once in my career did I ever pay the federal minimum wage mostly because the markets I worked in wouldn't allow it and that is the point

I know that on every thread you are going to take the liberal point of view and never the view of an actual business person who had to deal with Federal, state, local laws and regulations, market conditions, monthly P&L responsibilities. Those poor 2-3 million people who make minimum wage many of whom live at home, are first time wage earners and of course have no personal responsibility at all thus making minimum wage for their entire career. You are part of the problem and why the entitlement mentality in this country has to change.
 
Conservative said:
Where did I say that minimum wage was distorting wages? you really are having a problem with reading comprehension. I said minimum wages aren't the role of the Federal Govt. but rather the market. Please post where I made that claim. Not once in my career did I ever pay the federal minimum wage mostly because the markets I worked in wouldn't allow it and that is the point.
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Fine, not distorting.......yer gonna argue the fed gov should not set fed min wage.....even though.....it never affected you, as a manager. So we can discharge all this noise about yer managerial work, it has nothing to do with the argument at hand, it is irrelevant.



Those poor 2-3 million people who make minimum wage many of whom live at home, are first time wage earners and of course have no personal responsibility at all thus making minimum wage for their entire career.
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According to your own source, The majority (54%) of women making MW or less are over 25 years old.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Fine, not distorting.......yer gonna argue the fed gov should not set fed min wage.....even though.....it never affected you, as a manager. So we can discharge all this noise about yer managerial work, it has nothing to do with the argument at hand, it is irrelevant.



According to your own source, The majority (54%) of women making MW or less are over 25 years old.
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Yes, I am going to argue that as it is a state, local, and market place responsibility. Don't give a **** about what women or men make but do love how you distort the number and demographics of the minimum wage worker. Those over 25 making minimum wage, So WHAT!!

I am getting sick and tired of the typical leftwing bs from people who probably have never created a job, worked in any business field, never owned or ran their own business but are an expert on every subject. You fit that bill. Get off the computer, go out, start a business, pay those people what ever you think they need to make a living and let's see how you compete and survive
 
Conservative said:
Yes, I am going to argue that as it is a state, local, and market place responsibility. Don't give a **** about what women or men make but do love how you distort the number and demographics of the minimum wage worker. Those over 25 making minimum wage, So WHAT!!
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The "so what" is that yer characterization of MW workers being "first time teens living at home".....is a false narrative, but then what else is new. But that is why we give you so much attention, yer such an easy to defeat target with a big "kick me" sign on yer Texass.

I am getting sick and tired of the typical leftwing bs from people who probably have never created a job, worked in any business field, never owned or ran their own business but are an expert on every subject.
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You keep forgetting, I was a manager....and an owner...of a small business....whereas, you were not an owner.
 
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