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EXPLAINED: Why Texas will Secede from Union

SayMyName said:
Forums, being their nature, reflect words to the best of the writers ability, but not intonation.

Having said that...I don't agree with the United States government on a lot of matters. I don't disagree with anything you have said. I am just speaking from the reality of knowing the US government...not my own opinion....or what I would advocate....but so long as they have the power to do so, they will never, ever let a state secede. Even when the Union was weak...see what lengths it went to keeping it together by way of civil war.

Again, its the government....and the knowledge of how they will react.....I do not know anyone...well, one person in the military...and his behavior drummed him out.

There is a lot to change about the direction of the US government. I just know that a person is going to be quashed if they advocate anything smelling of jumping ship and it is taken seriously. Again, regardless of whether I agree with it or not.

Texas can not and will not secede. Too many smart people down there remaining knowing what will happen in the aftermath of a simple try.
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In the context of a situation that I’ve mentioned - elimination of the Bill of Rights, devaluation or collapse of the dollar caused by federal imperialism domestically and abroad and failed monetary policy, in addition to all the unwilling armed forces to initiate hostilities against a peaceful secession by a people, their brethren, that exhausted interposition efforts – it’s doubtful that they would have the power to do so. It would be done in the best interest of, from, and by the people.

People are smart, but they aren’t against secession at this moment in time because they are afraid. And as I describe in my first post of this thread; If there is any state that could win their freedom from a collapsing tyrannical federal government, it would be Texas."

“…whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security”
 
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Sherman123 said:
Lol. Texas isn't going to leave the Union. Besides we'd just rely on the urban and border loyalists to keep you suppressed. =D
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Loyalist as in fellow Commies? Aren't you doing that already?
 
SayMyName said:
Anyone in the armed forces advocating insurrection or secession from the United States of America, whether I agree with them or not, should not be in uniform of the same. I see this matter as no different than giving aid and comfort to the Taliban in the same regard.

But, we are missing the point. The point is....the United States will never let a state secede. It is not in their interest. Most people, in all of the states, I am sure do not even lean in that direction.

So, Texas will not secede. Those that advocate this while in the uniform of the United States of America are not doing their service honor.
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IIRC, the conversation wasn't necessarily about secession but, whether they would fire on American citizens if ordered to do so.
 
TML said:
In the context of a situation that I’ve mentioned - elimination of the Bill of Rights, devaluation or collapse of the dollar caused by federal imperialism domestically and abroad and failed monetary policy, in addition to all the unwilling armed forces to initiate hostilities against a peaceful secession by a people, their brethren, that exhausted interposition efforts – it’s doubtful that they would have the power to do so. It would be done in the best interest of, from, and by the people.

People are smart, but they aren’t against secession at this moment in time because they are afraid. And as I describe in my first post of this thread; If there is any state that could win their freedom from a collapsing tyrannical federal government, it would be Texas."

“…whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security”
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Amen! Well said.
 
I can envision how this would play out

Jan 3rd 2017: "Texas succeeds from the Union!"
Jan 4th 2017: "Texas invades Louisiana citing US support of terrorist"
Jan 4th 2017: Texas surrenders to the US"
 
Sherman123 said:
I'm a staunch Republican and certainly no Communist.
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We;; then , you need to do some background checks on your 'loyalists' 8)
In Texas most of the Leftists live in the large cities and along the border.
 
iliveonramen said:
I can envision how this would play out

Jan 3rd 2017: "Texas succeeds from the Union!"
Jan 4th 2017: "Texas invades Louisiana citing US support of terrorist"
Jan 4th 2017: Texas surrenders to the US"
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I'm still trying to figure out how all this turns to instant violence.

Either party should be very careful about taking that step.
 
Sherman123 said:
We oppose secession because it is harmful to the Union, which we believe to be a superior form of organization & government than the alternatives. It fundamentally weakens the body politic of the country if any of its constituent pieces are able to voluntarily exit this compact not only by reducing our collective population, area, access to resources, tax base, and human capital but by setting the precedent of disunion which could never be wiped away. Self-determination is entirely a matter of perspective not a 'natural right'. We support some revolutionary or separatist movements and oppose others depending on their objectives, the context of their fight, and the ramifications of its success.
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No, its a natural right. How can you beleive in the USA and not the Declaration of Independance?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
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SayMyName said:
I would like to see those in the armed forces standing front and center on this as well. If they support it, they shouldn't be in the armed forces of a United States. Talk of session or support of it is treason.
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Treason consists only in only in levying War against the USA, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. Speaking in favor of independance is therefore NOT treason. In fact, its specifically protected under the first amendment.
 
Somerville said:
If Cruz was "born an american(sic)" then why do some say Barack Obama was not "born an American"? At this time, Ted Cruz still holds Canadian citizenship although he says he will renounce it some day.
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Ask them. I dont make that claim.
 
WCH said:
I'm still trying to figure out how all this turns to instant violence.

Either party should be very careful about taking that step.
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The violence would come when the feds come back to take the nukes, NASA, and other federal property back. Sorry, but no Texas did not "develop" nuclear technology nor are any warheads "their" property. It is the property of the government of the Unites States of America. You know, the country you want to seceed from. No, you don't get to keep the property.
 
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Personally I think a State can secede. Just as a prospective State has to show that they agree to join the union and then Congress must approve, the people of a State must show they desire to leave and then Congress can approve a plan to make it happen.

As the Civil War and Texas v. White showed, summary secession based on actions of the individual State only is not possible. Under Congresses authority under the United States Constitution (Article I Section 8) it is within the purview of Congress to deal with those that place themselves in a state of insurrection. Insurrection of course being act of revolt against civil authority, in this case the authority of United States government of which the State is a part. Now if a State wants to secede, they would need to pass a secession bill and then forward it to Congress. Congress then can approve or disapprove the request. If they approve (just as they have to do to admit a new State), then they have decided to allow for the peaceful transfer of the member State to the status of an independent country and no insurrection occurs.

What I’d like to see is for Congress to pass a State Secession Act of 20XX which would layout the process and codify it into law. That would define both the process and the expected outcomes of a States attempt to secede so that people voting for such secession would understand exactly what ending their relationship as part of the United States means.

Something along these lines…


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1. Supremacy
In accordance with the United States Constitution, Article I Section 8, the Congress is empowered to determine if a status of insurrection exists with a member state. If a State wishes to peacefully secede from the union, they may do so with a approval of the will of the American people as expressed through they duly elected representatives to Congress. As per Article IV (paragraph 2) of the United States Constitution and the laws of the United States is the supreme law of the land and supersede conflicting state laws. When there are conflicts between the provisions of this act and other federal law, then Congress establishes that this act will be valid and override subordinate law.

2. Process
If the people of a State wish to peacefully secede from the bonds established between themselves and the other peoples of the United States, they can do so under the following process. The State government must lay before the people the ability to directly vote on the question of secession through a general voting process that includes all individuals otherwise eligible to vote in federal elections. If such a vote to secede passes, then the Governor of the State will prepare and remit to the United States Congress a Notice of Intent to Secede which will include the election results and the proposed date of secession which will be no sooner than 60-days from the date the notice is delivered to Congress.

3. Citizenship
Any citizen of the State petitioning for secession will have 60-days from the Congressional notification date to determine which country they will become a citizen of. This decision will be final and irrevocable. Any individual that does not inform the United States Department of State through a process that will be define by the United State Secretary of State will retain their United States citizenship, except that, any individual registering for or participating in a government election in the new country after the date of independence, will be considered to have voluntarily revoked their United States citizenship and accepted citizenship in the new country. Any individual who voluntarily joins the Armed Forces and/or Militia of the new country will similarly be considered to have voluntarily revoked their United States Citizenship.

4. Ex-Citizens
Any individual who voluntarily revokes their citizenship to assume citizenship in the new country, either directly or through other such action as voting or becoming a part of the military of the foreign country, forfeits any and all expectations of support from the United States government to include pensions, social security, medical benefits and all other such entitlement programs afforded to United States citizens.

5. Passports
All United States passports issued to citizens of the new country will be revoked upon the date of secession. It will be the responsibility of the new country to issue new passports and protect the interest of its citizen abroad. Citizen of the new country should not expect assistance from the United States Department of State.

6. Assumption of Debt
Any State that secedes from the union will assume a proportion of any national debt of the United States, the sum of such debt will be proportional to the percentage of the whole population of the United States and the population of the seceding State as of the date the vote was cast by the people of said State.

7. Payment of Federal Monies
Congress may take such actions as it feels needful to curb the flow and payment of federal dollars to the seceding State during the period of consideration by the Congress but that no Federal dollars for the maintenance of a State will continue upon the official date of independence. The new country thus being a foreign power from that date forward.

9. Transfer of Property (Mobile)
All property owned by the United States or is agencies (for example DOD, FBI, NASA, ATF, DEA, ICE, etc…) will be peacefully transferred back to the United States. Equipment that is not cost effective to move may be transferred to the new country with the exception for all computer system data storage devices, all law enforcement records, and any other records that Congress may declare.

10. Transfer of Property (Fixed)
All undeveloped land owned by the United States will be transferred to the new country effective the date of independence. However developed fixed properties will remain, temporarily, within the control of the United States. This period of control will not exceed one year to allow for the efficient transfer of mobile property owned by the United States back to the people of the United States.

11. Military Service
Any individual currently serving in the Armed Forces of the United States of America whose home of record was the previous State as of the date of application to Congress by the state, will be provided the opportunity to retain their United States citizenship or to select citizenship in the new country. If the individual accepts citizenship in the new country during the transition and is not under obligated service for some other reason they may, at the discretion of the Secretary of Defense, will receive an administrative discharge. Persons who elect new citizenship but have obligated service due to specific training, advancement, or other DOD programs will be retained on active duty but will be reclassified as a foreign national servicing in the Armed Forces.


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jonny5 said:
Yes, and it would look bad for the US to invade Texas for simply wanting to be free.
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And it would look bad if Texas didn't allow the federal government to take their property back.
 
WCH said:
We;; then , you need to do some background checks on your 'loyalists' 8)
In Texas most of the Leftists live in the large cities and along the border.
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I don't care what their political persuasion is I'm loyal to my country not a party.
 
the u.s. would never allow Texas to leave the union....because Texas:

has strategic oil reserves

1 of the 3 power grids in the u.s. is located in Texas,......... meaning other states would have no power.
 
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