Explain why you are pro-life without using emotional language

[Spunkylama]

you're right, they're not americans. That doesn't mean it's okay to murder them. You go tour in another country, and you murder someone who's not a US citizen, the US can and will prosecute you(if the home country doesnt do so first).

Yes you can't murder people no matter where they are from. Abortion laws are different for many countries. Most saying abortion is not murder.

 

[Spunkylama]

The implication being someone born in Canada isn't a person?

They aren't an American person based on our laws. Are you following?

 

[DarkWizard12]

The word "naturalized" that follows obviously implies to be a citizen, you must be born, no matter where you came from.

no, naturalized means they immigrated here to become a citizen. You can become a citizen by being born here, or naturalization.

Naturalization happens five years after a person moved to the United States - much longer than the nine months he/she spent becoming one woman's child.

Again, only covers citizenship. No one is arguing that the unborn are citizens. You're still not allowed to kill non-citizens, so it's entirely irrelevant.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

The Constitution is the framework for American government. It is for people born in America. It does not recognize Mexicans / Brits as it's the framework for our country.

That is not true. It is for American citizens, whether they were born here or not.

But the point is the U.S. Constitution defines a person as a born human, not any life form made of human cells, and you can't get more objective than that.

 

[Spunkylama]

Since 2021, Abortion in Mexico is no longer a crime, although its legalisation still varies by state. On 7 September 2021, the Mexican Supreme Court unanimously ruled that penalising abortion is unconstitutional, setting an important precedent across the whole country.

Abortion in the United Kingdom is legally available through the Abortion Act 1967 in Great Britain, and the Abortion (Northern Ireland) (No. 2) Regulations 2020.

Abortion in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia​

 

[Gordy327]

You have absolutely no proof of that.

14th Amendment to the Constitution: All PERSONS BORN or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are CITIZENS of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.

1 US Code, ss 8: "Person," " human being," "child," and "individual" as including BORN-ALIVE INFANT. In determining of any Act of Congress, or of any ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the various administrative bureaus and agencies of the United States, the words "person," " human being," "child," and "individual," shall include every infant member of the species homo sapiens who is BORN ALIVE at any stage of development.

Consider yourself proven wrong.

 

[Spunkylama]

That is not true. It is for American citizens, whether they were born here or not.

But the point is the U.S. Constitution defines a person as a born human, not any life form made of human cells, and you can't get more objective than that.

But the U.S. Constitution only applies within the United States..

 

[DarkWizard12]

14th Amendment to the Constitution: All PERSONS BORN or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are CITIZENS of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.

1 US Code, ss 8: "Person," " human being," "child," and "individual" as including BORN-ALIVE INFANT. In determining of any Act of Congress, or of any ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the various administrative bureaus and agencies of the United States, the words "person," " human being," "child," and "individual," shall include every infant member of the species homo sapiens who is BORN ALIVE at any stage of development.

Consider yourself proven wrong.

Uh......so it's okay to kill non-citizens? So let's start by killing mexicans then

 

[Patriotic Voter]

But the U.S. Constitution only applies within the United States..

I am only talking about people living in the United States. If you are Mexican, but living in the United States instead of Mexico, you are a person under American law.

 

[Spunkylama]

I am only talking about people living in the United States. If you are Mexican, but living in the United States instead of Mexico, you are a person under American law.

Dear pretend Mexican in this conversation, I'd suggest going back to Mexico where their women are free.

Under his eye

 

[Patriotic Voter]

@DarkWizard12

You know for an absolute fact the thread title forces people to never use the word "murder" in relation to abortion because that is using emotional language.

 

[Spunkylama]

Unfortunately this is a thing.​

 

[Gordy327]

Size alone does not determine personhood. If it did, you could say a full-term baby is not a person based on weight. Development is more important. Does the fetus have a fully functional heart, pair of lungs, etc.? Is it more than just 5-10 pounds of living tissues and organs?

Birth determines personhood.

 

[DarkWizard12]

@DarkWizard12

You know for an absolute fact the thread title forces people to never use the word "murder" in relation to abortion because that is using emotional language.

lol good thing i never did that then. I used in reference to killing non-citizens. You keep saying, rightfully, that the unborn are not citizens, and i want to see how far we're supposed to take that. over 100 million non-citizens live south of our border. Why can't we kill them? According to you, they're not 'persons' under US law.

 

[Spunkylama]

lol good thing i never did that then. I used in reference to killing non-citizens. You keep saying, rightfully, that the unborn are not citizens, and i want to see how far we're supposed to take that. over 100 million non-citizens live south of our border. Why can't we kill them? According to you, they're not 'persons' under US law.

Because you can't murder people. But that is another topic nor one that anyone is advocating for.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

lol good thing i never did that then. I used in reference to killing non-citizens. You keep saying, rightfully, that the unborn are not citizens, and i want to see how far we're supposed to take that. over 100 million non-citizens live south of our border. Why can't we kill them? According to you, they're not 'persons' under US law.

Everyone knows you can't murder people, regardless of their citizenship, in the United States. That is extremely obvious. We also know it is just as obvious only born humans can be people, and therefore no unborn human can be murdered.

So you have absolutely no argument that abortion is murder. The Constitution says so.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Because you can't murder people. But that is another topic nor one that anyone is advocating for.

but that's the thing, the constitution plainly states "persons under US law.". a non-citizen are not "persons under US law".

 

[Spunkylama]

but that's the thing, the constitution plainly states "persons under US law.". a non-citizen are not "persons under US law".

Walking away as it seems you are playing games.

 

[Phys251]

Murderer, baby killer, evil, irresponsible, ungodly, guilty, and immoral (among other misogynistic words) certainly do not have to be used for anyone to explain why he or she is "pro-life" (aka anti-choice). Neither does telling extremely obvious lies about what is inside her body: a zygote, then a blastula, then an embryo, and if wanted, eventually a fetus. Show me why you oppose abortion only using the medically and legally correct terminology. I welcome all opinions that are not based on stupid lies about what the unborn are and America's federal laws.

Nobody has successfully taken you up on your challenge, and I doubt that anyone will.

 

[Captain America]

Murderer, baby killer, evil, irresponsible, ungodly, guilty, and immoral (among other misogynistic words) certainly do not have to be used for anyone to explain why he or she is "pro-life" (aka anti-choice). Neither does telling extremely obvious lies about what is inside her body: a zygote, then a blastula, then an embryo, and if wanted, eventually a fetus. Show me why you oppose abortion only using the medically and legally correct terminology. I welcome all opinions that are not based on stupid lies about what the unborn are and America's federal laws.

My position on the topic is solely based on emotion. Therefore, I abstain.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Everyone knows you can't murder people, regardless of their citizenship, in the United States.

So why can you kill the fetus then? According to the constitution(your interpretation), neither the fetus, or the mexican, are "persons" under US law.

That is extremely obvious. We also know it is just as obvious only born humans can be people, and therefore no unborn human can be murdered.

idk man, apparantly, only american citizens are people at all in this world!

So you have absolutely no argument that abortion is murder. The Constitution says so.

disagree.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Walking away as it seems you are playing games.

I pointed out the critical flaw in your logic. If you're going to cite the constitution as a basis for persons, the no one outside the US is a person. Is that REALLY the logic you want to go with? Because if so, you're not prepared to deal with the implications of that.

It is both easier, and correct, to say that the constitution is referring to citizens(which it is). No one in this thread is saying that a fetus is a citizen. So your argument is moot. It is not proof of anything. When you find a prolifer asserting that the unborn are citizens, then you'll have a point. But until then, you don't.

 

[Gordy327]

Uh......so it's okay to kill non-citizens? So let's start by killing mexicans then

I see you cannot refute my post and instead dive into absurdities. BTW. I have no problem with "excessive force" when dealing with intruders.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

but that's the thing, the constitution plainly states "persons under US law.". a non-citizen are not "persons under US law".

You have absolutely no reason or right to ever think for one second any unborn human being is a person without totally objective, undeniable proof I am wrong. As ,long as you try to do that, you are violating the only purpose of this thread.

 

[Spunkylama]

I pointed out the critical flaw in your logic. If you're going to cite the constitution as a basis for persons, the no one outside the US is a person. Is that REALLY the logic you want to go with? Because if so, you're not prepared to deal with the implications of that.

They aren't saying they aren't people but rather not American persons. It's not that complicated. Good f****** grief