Evolution will punish you if you're selfish and mean

http://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2013/evolution-will-punish-you-if-youre-selfish-and-mean/

I wonder what Ayn Rand would have to say about this. I've long suspected that those that are selfish are only viable as long as there are enough cooperative individuals to support them. If we were all extremely selfish I can only imagine the shadow of a society we would be living in today rather than the promised utopia of Rapture or Columbia.

I think selfishness has its place, else, we, the most "successful" creatures on the planet, would not have such inclinations.


Too much of either is fatal, as proven by the Neanderthals. They would starve the group, insuring everyone got an equal share. Not a good tactic, at times, as proven by their demise.

Sounds like an interesting computer exercise.

KevinKohler said:

I think selfishness has its place, else, we, the most "successful" creatures on the planet, would not have such inclinations.


Too much of either is fatal, as proven by the Neanderthals. They would starve the group, insuring everyone got an equal share. Not a good tactic, at times, as proven by their demise.

Click to expand...

Wait, how on earth would they know that about Neanderthals?

KevinKohler said:

I think selfishness has its place, else, we, the most "successful" creatures on the planet, would not have such inclinations.


Too much of either is fatal, as proven by the Neanderthals. They would starve the group, insuring everyone got an equal share. Not a good tactic, at times, as proven by their demise.

Click to expand...

Neanderthals were socialist?

To be honest, I'm not sure how they know this...I read it somewhere. I just tried to find it via google, with no luck.

Yeah Verax, you beat me to it.

The authors were dropping the earlier statement that zero determinants (ZD short meaning selfish and mean) can most survive and adapt that they had stated earlier on. From doing some game work they concluded that even if that was true, and in the long run ZD's won over cooperatives to extinction, ZD's themselves would be forced to cooperate (hence change tactics) in order to survive.

So ZD's exist cause people that cooperate maintain them. By maintaining ZD's they get to be more advantageous than cooperative people, but they cannot survive without them nevertheless.

References:

Adami, C., & Hintze, A. (2013). Evolutionary instability of zero-determinant strategies demonstrates that winning is not everything. Nature Communications, 4 DOI: 10.1038/ncomms3193.

'Evolution will punish you if you're selfish and mean'

Maybe this is why people on welfare are in the place they're at.

"I want all the government handouts, but I don't want to work at it. Me, me, me. Gimme, gimme, gimme."

Velvet Elvis said:

Maybe this is why people on welfare are in the place they're at.

"I want all the government handouts, but I don't want to work at it. Me, me, me. Gimme, gimme, gimme."

Click to expand...

Welfare hell, that is pretty much the motto of the whole democrats party. Except maybe the greenie-weenies.

Verax said:

'Evolution will punish you if you're selfish and mean' | MSUToday | Michigan State University

I wonder what Ayn Rand would have to say about this. I've long suspected that those that are selfish are only viable as long as there are enough cooperative individuals to support them. If we were all extremely selfish I can only imagine the shadow of a society we would be living in today rather than the promised utopia of Rapture or Columbia.

Click to expand...

Ah - okay. So they used a computer program to simulate 'life' - and that accurately simulated 'human nature' and 'evolution' to the point where it's evidence of our evolutionary history?

I fail to see how one can prove the other.

And it gives little else...

In reality - what they're claiming isn't that 'it will punish YOU because you are selfish - right now' it's really saying 'it will eventually become a negative if left unchecked for a lengthy period of time'

Verax said:

'Evolution will punish you if you're selfish and mean' | MSUToday | Michigan State University

I wonder what Ayn Rand would have to say about this. I've long suspected that those that are selfish are only viable as long as there are enough cooperative individuals to support them. If we were all extremely selfish I can only imagine the shadow of a society we would be living in today rather than the promised utopia of Rapture or Columbia.

Click to expand...

meah :coffeepap

The one of the points from Ayn Rand is how you define selfishness. I will do what I need to grow and better myself for my own sake. Is different from I will destroy others to take everything for myself. (Builder vs Looter)

Also Evolution, IMHO, I don't think punishs or rewards anything its a just change over time of surviable genetics/tatics over ones that don't survive.

Some people and animals do exist that are selfish some have kids (some are kids) It works for them and they passed there genes on. Evolution has chosen them to keep going. It dosen't have an end goal of perfect people or perfect animals in mind just what lives at any given time and is able to make further generations.