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Evidence for the Bible / God [W536; 634]

Cephus said:
Come on, that is such a complete cop out. Oh, I have evidence, I just won't show you because I know you won't listen! That just shows that you know that whatever "evidence" you think you have is absurd and nobody will take you seriously. McDowell and other apologists put out books where they make claims that are equally nonsensical, have been thoroughly refuted in the past, yet theists clamor to them because it gives them an excuse to believe the things they want to believe, not because there are any good reasons to believe the things they believe.

It's all emotional wishful thinking, not rational and critically-evaluated reason.
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When it comes down to it, all most religionists have to justify their beliefs is how they feel or experiences that they have had. It doesn't prove anything to an outsider, but it is sincere because the feelings and experiences are very real to them. I'll take a "you need to have the experience of god" argument over the other convoluted arguments that try but fail to use logic and reason, because it is more honest and wastes less time discussing, even though they are a rhetorical dead end.
 
Hard Truth said:
When it comes down to it, all most religionists have to justify their beliefs is how they feel or experiences that they have had. It doesn't prove anything to an outsider, but it is sincere because the feelings and experiences are very real to them. I'll take a "you need to have the experience of god" argument over the other convoluted arguments that try but fail to use logic and reason, because it is more honest and wastes less time discussing, even though they are a rhetorical dead end.
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Are you sure you aren't thinking of schizophrenia, delusional disorders, hallucinations, or psychosis?
 
Cephus said:
It doesn't bother me at all. This is a public forum. I am responding to posts that you are making in a public forum. I don't have to disprove anything you believe because you've never proven that it's valid to begin with. I no more have to prove God doesn't exist than I have to prove unicorns don't exist. Stop pretending that you've said anything worthy of respect, you haven't and you're constantly trying to worm your way around that simple fact.

You seem to think that your offers to pray are impressive at all. They are not. They no more impress me than someone offering to pray to Krishna would impress you. You don't think Krishna is real, any more than I have a reason to think your God is real. You haven't proven it. You haven't supported it. Thus, you might as well be talking to a door knob and asking for stuff. It's not going to happen because there's no rational reason to think the door knob can do anything for you. At least the door knob demonstrably exists, which is more than anyone can say for God.
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I won't fight with you Cephus. I will again gently point out that you do not have any clue what I do or do not believe, think, want, or anything else unless I inform you. I have not asked you to prove that anything doesn't exist, let alone God. I only pointed out those things that you cannot prove to anybody, including God, to illustrate that it is serious error to insist that if something cannot be proved, it therefore does not exist. But it is pretty difficult to believe you when you say you aren't bothered when your posts become so increasingly frantic in your effort to insult and discredit me in order to justify your point of view. But again, I have no desire to fight with anybody, most especially in matters of faith and the God of love. I do wish you a pleasant evening.
 
AlbqOwl said:
I won't fight with you Cephus. I will again gently point out that you do not have any clue what I do or do not believe, think, want, or anything else unless I inform you. I have not asked you to prove that anything doesn't exist, let alone God. I only pointed out those things that you cannot prove to anybody, including God, to illustrate that it is serious error to insist that if something cannot be proved, it therefore does not exist. But it is pretty difficult to believe you when you say you aren't bothered when your posts become so increasingly frantic in your effort to insult and discredit me in order to justify your point of view. But again, I have no desire to fight with anybody, most especially in matters of faith and the God of love. I do wish you a pleasant evening.
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Of course you won't, you can't, you've already admitted that you have nothing to say. You keep making statements that you cannot support, claims that you cannot back up and you assert that your claims have validity when you can't show that's the case. This is exactly why the religious fare so poorly in rational debates, religion simply is not rational. You've just shown that you fall into that category. But by all means, feel free to run for the hills, you've lost and there's no salvaging your faith from the rubble heap.

Have a nice evening licking your wounds.
 
Evidence of the bible - yes, men created it. I have one on my bookshelf.

Evidence of a god - none except mans feelings.

Evidence of a creator - maybe, but it begs the even more fantastic question, who created the creator?

And why would a creator demand I spend my whole life worshipping it?

And which of the thousands of past and present religions has it even close to correct?

Personally, I tend to think we were some distant alien's long forgotton sixth grade science project.
 
Jayhawker30 said:
I wonder if those divergent believers feel the exact same way.
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Dunno. You'll have to ask them.

But whatever their experience is irrelevant to my own experience. And my own experience is all that I can testify to in that regard.
 
Manny said:
Didn't the pope recently say atheists might go to heaven?
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There's debate on what he meant in that interview. But the Pope doesn't speak for Christianity, only for Catholicism. And even then there's division in the ranks.

Be more concerned with what Jesus himself said:

"Unless you believe I Am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins." - John 8:24

He who has the Son (Jesus) has life; he who does not have the Son does not have everlasting life, but the wrath of God abides on him." - John 3:36

"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." - John 14:6

And, from the Book of Revelation - unbelievers will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

So proceed at your own risk.
 
Logicman said:
There's debate on what he meant in that interview. But the Pope doesn't speak for Christianity, only for Catholicism. And even then there's division in the ranks.

Be more concerned with what Jesus himself said:

"Unless you believe I Am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins." - John 8:24

He who has the Son (Jesus) has life; he who does not have the Son does not have everlasting life, but the wrath of God abides on him." - John 3:36

"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." - John 14:6

And, from the Book of Revelation - unbelievers will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

So proceed at your own risk.
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ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
threats of eternal damnation if I don't believe. no thanks. I get the same threats from other religions.
Your threats are no more believable than theirs.

I don't even know what is your brand of christianity, so I can hardly join you now can I?
 
Logicman said:
There's debate on what he meant in that interview. But the Pope doesn't speak for Christianity, only for Catholicism. And even then there's division in the ranks.

Be more concerned with what Jesus himself said:

"Unless you believe I Am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins." - John 8:24

He who has the Son (Jesus) has life; he who does not have the Son does not have everlasting life, but the wrath of God abides on him." - John 3:36

"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." - John 14:6

And, from the Book of Revelation - unbelievers will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

So proceed at your own risk.
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Actually that is what someone said Jesus said. Unless you have some new gospel written by Jesus himself that no one else has ever heard of.
 
Quag said:
Actually that is what someone said Jesus said. Unless you have some new gospel written by Jesus himself that no one else has ever heard of.
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Don't kid yourself. If Jesus had written one you wouldn't believe that either.
 
Logicman said:
Don't kid yourself. If Jesus had written one you wouldn't believe that either.
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Don't kid yourself. If God himself came up to you and told you the bible was a bunch of BS you wouldn't believe him either.
Still I notice you didn't even try to rebut what I said. So Ill take it that you agree with me we have no way of knowing if anything ascribed to Jesus was ever said by him
 
AlbqOwl said:
Dunno. You'll have to ask them.

But whatever their experience is irrelevant to my own experience. And my own experience is all that I can testify to in that regard.
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Yet you're not willing to test your experiences against demonstrable reality. Every religion out there claims to have experiences that prove their gods. All of them can't be right. All of them, including yours, can be wrong.
 
Cephus said:
Yet you're not willing to test your experiences against demonstrable reality. Every religion out there claims to have experiences that prove their gods. All of them can't be right. All of them, including yours, can be wrong.
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I have not made any argument for who is right and who is wrong. I have only testified to my own experience. I don't know why my experience bothers you so much or why you are so eager to disprove it. I feel no need to prove it or disprove it as it is my experience and I accept it as that.
 
Quag said:
Don't kid yourself. If God himself came up to you and told you the bible was a bunch of BS you wouldn't believe him either.
Still I notice you didn't even try to rebut what I said. So Ill take it that you agree with me we have no way of knowing if anything ascribed to Jesus was ever said by him
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There is a way of knowing. It's called the person of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Unbelievers have zero clue about Him because they've had no experience with Him. You can read about him in the Book of Acts, etc.

Who is the Holy Spirit and what does He do? « The Righter Report
 
AlbqOwl said:
I have not made any argument for who is right and who is wrong. I have only testified to my own experience. I don't know why my experience bothers you so much or why you are so eager to disprove it. I feel no need to prove it or disprove it as it is my experience and I accept it as that.
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All claims of experience without a shred of evidence are faulty. I'll stick with the Christopher Hitchens quote: “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
Let us know when you have evidence. 'nuff said.
 
Cephus said:
All claims of experience without a shred of evidence are faulty. I'll stick with the Christopher Hitchens quote: “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
Let us know when you have evidence. 'nuff said.
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Well since I don't look to Christopher Hitchens for what I think, I'll just take your word that you believe that. Okay? Do have a good day.
 
Quag said:
Translation you have no proof but want to believe so it must be real.
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There's plenty of evidence in this thread. You can start with post # 595 and go forward from there.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Well since I don't look to Christopher Hitchens for what I think, I'll just take your word that you believe that. Okay? Do have a good day.
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How could you possibly argue with that statement? Your reasoning is completely illogical.
 
Logicman said:
There is a way of knowing. It's called the person of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Unbelievers have zero clue about Him because they've had no experience with Him. You can read about him in the Book of Acts, etc.

Who is the Holy Spirit and what does He do? « The Righter Report
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No rational person could buy into this.

But I do know about the brain dwelling Extremely Cool Spirit. I've experienced her. She's totally awesome and totally real because I say she is. We don't need hyper links because we know that anyone who posts on the internet is equally accepted as correct because they believe what it is they are posting and there is no other need for any proof beyond that. Just like you guys! :)
 
Logicman said:
There's plenty of evidence in this thread. You can start with post # 595 and go forward from there.
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Nope not once piece of evidence. problem is you do not understand the meaning of evidence.
 
Quag said:
Nope not once piece of evidence. problem is you do not understand the meaning of evidence.
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Wrong again.

p.s. Watch out for that first step into eternity.
 
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