"Everything happens for a reason"

[X Factor]

I'm sorry I have not been back to participate in this thread since my OP. It's not something I feel i'm able to discuss reasonably and without too many emotions right now (which is not really fair to anyone participating) but I thank you all for your replies and will come back to it at a little later stage.

It appears as though you've recently lost someone close to you, or else there's some other something you're dealing with. Whatever it is, I'm sorry.

 

[CrabCake]

The “everything happens for a reason” sentiment is a perfect example of something that people accept and repeat without even really understanding it, let alone challenging it. I understand that it's a sentiment uttered with the best of intentions, and it is important to acknowledge a person’s grief. You can do that by offering support, friendship, and love, there's no need for such a nonsensical phrase. I don't understand why it's used so often.

Everything does not happen for a reason. Sometimes bad things can and will just happen, for no reason at all. That's the reality.

I completely agree with you and would go one step further. Such sentiments can, in many situations (the most obvious being when directed at people who are grieving), hurt people rather than comfort them.

 

[X Factor]

I completely agree with you and would go one step further. Such sentiments can, in many situations (the most obvious being when directed at people who are grieving), hurt people rather than comfort them.

That's not the intent. I'm sure I've said it, and I've meant it. I've said a version of that to myself and it is what I believe for reasons I stated earlier. Like I say, though, I'm sure that rings hollow for anyone who doesn't have similar beliefs to mine.

 

[Grand Mal]

The “everything happens for a reason” sentiment is a perfect example of something that people accept and repeat without even really understanding it, let alone challenging it. I understand that it's a sentiment uttered with the best of intentions, and it is important to acknowledge a person’s grief. You can do that by offering support, friendship, and love, there's no need for such a nonsensical phrase. I don't understand why it's used so often.

Everything does not happen for a reason. Sometimes bad things can and will just happen, for no reason at all. That's the reality.

Same with good things. Otherwise, it'd all be boring.

 

[Absentglare]

The “everything happens for a reason” sentiment is a perfect example of something that people accept and repeat without even really understanding it, let alone challenging it. I understand that it's a sentiment uttered with the best of intentions, and it is important to acknowledge a person’s grief. You can do that by offering support, friendship, and love, there's no need for such a nonsensical phrase. I don't understand why it's used so often.

Everything does not happen for a reason. Sometimes bad things can and will just happen, for no reason at all. That's the reality.

I can only imagine that anyone who suggests such a thing cannot possibly have ever studied quantum mechanics.

 

[the_recruit]

Everything DOES happen for a reason. That reason is physics.

But for what reason does everything happen for a reason? :mrgreen:

 

[VanceMack]

A large number of people are 'meaning making' people. Things are supposed to make sense. If we insist that all things happen for a reason then it allows people to cling to a semblance of control. WE may not be in control of this crazy train, but a higher power is. We dont or may not know what that purpose is, but its enough to know that there is something.

MOST things happen for a reason but the reasons are usually all too human and mundane. Dood gets in a car crash, is paralyzed, kills his wife, the 2 people in the car that hits him, and lands 5 kids in the hospital, 2 with lifetime TBIs. That happened for a 'reason' but God had nothing to do with it. Drove too fast on a slick road...drove carelessly...caught the bumper of a car they were passing and it sent them sideways into oncoming traffic. It happened for a 'reason'. For many of the families dealing with the crash...assigning 'meaning' helped them to put the pain and anger on the shelf for a minute while they dealt with the tragic.

And some people ARE extraordinarily careless in their comments. We had a chaplain that was death on 'platitudes' because for many, it causes far more harm. Think about some of the sentences we often hear. "I wonder what they must have done to deserve that." "God is in control." "Everything happens for a reason." "God wont give us more than we can handle." "**** happens." Even those inspirational comments suck sometimes. 'Prayer saved my life.' "Well...OK...but it didnt save my kid...so what kind of a sick demented God is He?" "They have gone to a better place."

Personally...I think the correct response when helping people that are experiencing grief is just to ask them what they need of you. Eventually...MOST people work stuff out. If they need grief counseling, usually the most effective means of healing is getting the individual to discuss their own personal belief system and then asking them to live in congruence with their belief system. They get there...eventually. When they are ready.

And lest we judge people too harshly...EVERYONE compromises their personal beliefs to accommodate their wants. Everyone. Just because its not effective, doesnt mean we dont do it in some way or form.

 

[the_recruit]

I completely agree with you and would go one step further. Such sentiments can, in many situations (the most obvious being when directed at people who are grieving), hurt people rather than comfort them.

Agreed. It's right up there with "I know what you're going through...." as one of the most common and unhelpful things said to grieving people.

 

[X Factor]

Huh, I've had a few occasions to be there for friends going through rough times and judging by this, it's a wonder any of them still speak to me afterwards.

 

[_Sal]

I'm sorry I have not been back to participate in this thread since my OP. It's not something I feel i'm able to discuss reasonably and without too many emotions right now (which is not really fair to anyone participating) but I thank you all for your replies and will come back to it at a little later stage.

sorry for whatever your current struggle is, I hope you are able to find peace with it.

 

[the_recruit]

Huh, I've had a few occasions to be there for friends going through rough times and judging by this, it's a wonder any of them still speak to me afterwards.

Among counselors and other experts on grief "Everything happens for a reason" and "I know how you feel" are universally decried as things you shouldn't say to the grieving.

Just google "what to say to a grieving friend" and you'll get a million hits like this...

Supporting a Grieving Person: Helping Others Through Grief, Loss, and Bereavement

Offering Support to the Bereaved: What Not to Say | This Emotional Life

Grief.com – Because LOVE Never Dies 10 Best & Worst Things to Say to Someone in Grief - Grief.com - Because LOVE Never Dies

Don't Say to a Griever...

Maybe your friends understood you had good intentions and forgave your words even if they were hurtful. :shrug:

 

[X Factor]

Among counselors and other experts on grief "Everything happens for a reason" and "I know how you feel" are universally decried as things you shouldn't say to the grieving.

Just google "what to say to a grieving friend" and you'll get a million hits like this...

Supporting a Grieving Person: Helping Others Through Grief, Loss, and Bereavement

Offering Support to the Bereaved: What Not to Say | This Emotional Life

Grief.com – Because LOVE Never Dies 10 Best & Worst Things to Say to Someone in Grief - Grief.com - Because LOVE Never Dies

Don't Say to a Griever...

Maybe your friends understood you had good intentions and forgave your words even if they were hurtful. :shrug:

I'll feel bad if I just made things worse. I'll have to ask them. They'd be honest with me.

 

[_Sal]

I'll feel bad if I just made things worse. I'll have to ask them. They'd be honest with me.

you did the best you could for what you knew at the time...I think sometimes people say all of the right things and we don't feel them and others say all of the wrong things and we still feel loved

 

[tosca1]

The phrase implies that there was intent. Like, little johnny got leukemia so that his mom would realize that fighting leukemia was her real purpose in life. Or you were the only survivor of that horrific plan crash for a reason. No, no you weren't. You just lucked out. We can look back and assign a "reason" but that's different, that's just making the most of a bad situation. That "reason" didn't exist beforehand. Drives me crazy. Look around, there is so much tragedy in our world and for the majority of people who experience it nothing good comes from it.

A lot of people found God in the midst, or as a result of tragedy, or pain.

 

[opendebate]

A lot of people found God in the midst, or as a result of tragedy, or pain.

what's the psychology behind that though. Isn't it just a desperation, which I empathize with btw, for something that will ease their pain? How can anyone trust a choice they make under those conditions?

 

[tosca1]

what's the psychology behind that though. Isn't it just a desperation, which I empathize with btw, for something that will ease their pain? How can anyone trust a choice they make under those conditions?

That's not for us to assess. Unless you personally feel how that person feels about finding God....you can't make any assumptions.


If a person finds solace and comfort in God.....who cares what "psychology, that is!
Just be glad for the person!

 

[opendebate]

That's not for us to assess. Unless you personally feel how that person feels about finding God....you can't make any assumptions.


If a person finds solace and comfort in God.....who cares what "psychology, that is!
Just be glad for the person!

I never said I wasn't. I am actually. In all honesty I kind of envy them. One of the main reasons I've avoided this forum all this time is because I wouldn't want to say something to someone that plays even the smallest part in taking that away from them. As long as that faith brings them joy and peace, they are lucky to have it. It's when it because something destructive that I have a problem with it and unfortunately THAT happens far too often.

 

[X Factor]

Agreed. It's right up there with "I know what you're going through...." as one of the most common and unhelpful things said to grieving people.

I don't want to defend or excuse any harmful comments I may have told my friends, so I will ask them to be honest with me and I'll try to learn from it. I've been thinking about this, though and I don't know what Serenity is dealing with and I would never want to do anything that might seem to trivialize it, so please don't take this as being comparable to anything, just that it's a way to, kinda, test how I'd feel on the receiving end.

Anyone here knows my dogs are important to me and I lost one of them in August. About a year prior, a really good friend lost her dog she'd had since it was a pup and an affinity for dogs is something my friend and I have in common. Both dogs basically died of "natural causes" so that does take out of this the element of questioning why, so I won't address the "it happened for a reason" thing, however, my friend did tell me that she understood how I felt, and I knew that she did. Far from it bothering me that she told me, "I know how you feel", it helped me to know that she had been where I was.

I will say that I totally agree that you shouldn't say that if there's really no way you could know what someone else is going through. That very same friend lost her dad, too, and, as my parents are both still living, it would have been dumb on my part to tell her I understood how she felt, because I didn't and don't.

 

[the_recruit]

I don't want to defend or excuse any harmful comments I may have told my friends, so I will ask them to be honest with me and I'll try to learn from it.

You know the situation better than I but I'd be careful with this. Bringing up memories of a painful time might not be best either. Personally, I'd let bygones be bygones and just keep it in mind for the future.

I've been thinking about this, though and I don't know what Serenity is dealing with and I would never want to do anything that might seem to trivialize it, so please don't take this as being comparable to anything, just that it's a way to, kinda, test how I'd feel on the receiving end.

Anyone here knows my dogs are important to me and I lost one of them in August. About a year prior, a really good friend lost her dog she'd had since it was a pup and an affinity for dogs is something my friend and I have in common. Both dogs basically died of "natural causes" so that does take out of this the element of questioning why, so I won't address the "it happened for a reason" thing, however, my friend did tell me that she understood how I felt, and I knew that she did. Far from it bothering me that she told me, "I know how you feel", it helped me to know that she had been where I was.

Sure. These words can be comforting to some people - such as yourself or perhaps your friends. But the point is that everybody is different. And it turns out that for many people the "it-happened-for-a-reason" type platitudes are not comforting but upsetting. Which is why grief counselors recommend alternative condolences that run less risk of further upsetting someone who's already in a bad place.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

 

[_Sal]

what's the psychology behind that though. Isn't it just a desperation, which I empathize with btw, for something that will ease their pain? How can anyone trust a choice they make under those conditions?

actually opendebate, I think the reason that people trust their "finding of god" when they are filled with desperation and fear is precisely because they were at one of the lowest points in their life

then they find god and it resonates with them because they believed that nothing would ever comfort them again and yet....they are finding a measure of comfort

and they trust that choice precisely for that reason

 

[_Sal]

I don't want to defend or excuse any harmful comments I may have told my friends, so I will ask them to be honest with me and I'll try to learn from it. I've been thinking about this, though and I don't know what Serenity is dealing with and I would never want to do anything that might seem to trivialize it, so please don't take this as being comparable to anything, just that it's a way to, kinda, test how I'd feel on the receiving end.

Anyone here knows my dogs are important to me and I lost one of them in August. About a year prior, a really good friend lost her dog she'd had since it was a pup and an affinity for dogs is something my friend and I have in common. Both dogs basically died of "natural causes" so that does take out of this the element of questioning why, so I won't address the "it happened for a reason" thing, however, my friend did tell me that she understood how I felt, and I knew that she did. Far from it bothering me that she told me, "I know how you feel", it helped me to know that she had been where I was.

I will say that I totally agree that you shouldn't say that if there's really no way you could know what someone else is going through. That very same friend lost her dad, too, and, as my parents are both still living, it would have been dumb on my part to tell her I understood how she felt, because I didn't and don't.

X Factor, you seem very kind and caring and warm and supportive. Honestly don't sweat your past behaviour so much. You are afraid that you damaged your friend and trust me, if you were with her the way you are displaying yourself right now you most certainly did not cause your friend further or deeper pain.

I am old and I have experienced and witnessed a myriad of death.

Often when people say: "I know exactly how you feel" they use that phraze as a step off point to ignore the suffering of the person in front of them and launch into a diatribe of exactly what happened to them and it becomes all about them with zero sensitivity to the person in front of them.

I can not imagine that is how you behaved.

Same with the trite use of "everything happens for a reason". I myself live by this philosophy. But even for people who do, there is a time and a place to use such words and it isn't when someone is reeling and raw from some terrible life occurrence.

That is a phraze that "can" sometimes be used after when you are both discussing the randomness of life and the person has climbed a bit out of the depth of their despair and is moving on a bit and may actually voiced such a question or be exploring such a possibility.

And also remember we are all different. I have been present when someone has said the most random and awkward of comments in the midst of tragedy and I have been aghast thinking if someone said that to me I would have been devastated only to have the other person comment to me later that what that person said was deeply helpful.

Someone told me something once that I have remembered over the years, and found incredibly helpful, if you want to assist someone in trouble, be like a dog; show up, stay close, look sad and hang out. Keep your comments to a minimum and let the person who has need lead the way.

 

[X Factor]

You know the situation better than I but I'd be careful with this. Bringing up memories of a painful time might not be best either. Personally, I'd let bygones be bygones and just keep it in mind for the future.



Sure. These words can be comforting to some people - such as yourself or perhaps your friends. But the point is that everybody is different. And it turns out that for many people the "it-happened-for-a-reason" type platitudes are not comforting but upsetting. Which is why grief counselors recommend alternative condolences that run less risk of further upsetting someone who's already in a bad place.

X Factor, you seem very kind and caring and warm and supportive. Honestly don't sweat your past behaviour so much. You are afraid that you damaged your friend and trust me, if you were with her the way you are displaying yourself right now you most certainly did not cause your friend further or deeper pain.

I am old and I have experienced and witnessed a myriad of death.

Often when people say: "I know exactly how you feel" they use that phraze as a step off point to ignore the suffering of the person in front of them and launch into a diatribe of exactly what happened to them and it becomes all about them with zero sensitivity to the person in front of them.

I can not imagine that is how you behaved.

Same with the trite use of "everything happens for a reason". I myself live by this philosophy. But even for people who do, there is a time and a place to use such words and it isn't when someone is reeling and raw from some terrible life occurrence.

That is a phraze that "can" sometimes be used after when you are both discussing the randomness of life and the person has climbed a bit out of the depth of their despair and is moving on a bit and may actually voiced such a question or be exploring such a possibility.

And also remember we are all different. I have been present when someone has said the most random and awkward of comments in the midst of tragedy and I have been aghast thinking if someone said that to me I would have been devastated only to have the other person comment to me later that what that person said was deeply helpful.

Someone told me something once that I have remembered over the years, and found incredibly helpful, if you want to assist someone in trouble, be like a dog; show up, stay close, look sad and hang out. Keep your comments to a minimum and let the person who has need lead the way.

Thank you to you both. This has been a really useful conversation for me to have. I think Recruit's right and I'm not going to reopen old wounds. My friends are still my friends so if I did say something that was hurtful, they have forgiven me. Seriously though, this thread has given me something to consider especially when I'm dealing with someone I may not know as well as I know my friends.

 

[_Sal]

Thank you to you both. This has been a really useful conversation for me to have. I think Recruit's right and I'm not going to reopen old wounds. My friends are still my friends so if I did say something that was hurtful, they have forgiven me. Seriously though, this thread has given me something to consider especially when I'm dealing with someone I may not know as well as I know my friends.

you sound like a wonderful, warm and sincere friend

kudos to you.

 

[William Rea]

The “everything happens for a reason” sentiment is a perfect example of something that people accept and repeat without even really understanding it, let alone challenging it. I understand that it's a sentiment uttered with the best of intentions, and it is important to acknowledge a person’s grief. You can do that by offering support, friendship, and love, there's no need for such a nonsensical phrase. I don't understand why it's used so often.

Everything does not happen for a reason. Sometimes bad things can and will just happen, for no reason at all. That's the reality.

I believe that we assign 'reasons' post hoc when we try to rationalise things that happen for no other reason than it is a part of what we are BUT, that in no way lessens the pain or the fear of the journey we have to make and the only thing that will get us there is love. I feel that there is love for you in this thread Serenity, and many of us that would gladly bear some of your burden if we could.