European Abortion Rates v USA

[dragondad]

Did you know that the rate of abortion in the Netherlands is only 15% of the USA rate?

The Netherlands is less religious and provides extensive sex education and birth control for their adolecents.

It's also free under their Universal Health Care system.

Advocates For Youth - Adolescent Sexual Health in Europe and the U.S.—Why the Difference?


Just wondering if some of you hardcore anti-choice fanatics would be willing to go this route here in the USA???

On the downside, (for your viewpoint) your unwed teenagers would be bumping fuzzies more often.

Do you want to go this route or is it more important to keep out of wedlock sex dirty and sinful???

 

[Goshin]

Did you know that the rate of abortion in the Netherlands is only 15% of the USA rate?

The Netherlands is less religious and provides extensive sex education and birth control for their adolecents.

It's also free under their Universal Health Care system.

Advocates For Youth - Adolescent Sexual Health in Europe and the U.S.—Why the Difference?


Just wondering if some of you hardcore anti-choice fanatics would be willing to go this route here in the USA???

On the downside, (for your viewpoint) your unwed teenagers would be bumping fuzzies more often.

Do you want to go this route or is it more important to keep out of wedlock sex dirty and sinful???

Troll much?

 

[Anima]

Did you know that the rate of abortion in the Netherlands is only 15% of the USA rate?

The Netherlands is less religious and provides extensive sex education and birth control for their adolecents.

It's also free under their Universal Health Care system.

Advocates For Youth - Adolescent Sexual Health in Europe and the U.S.—Why the Difference?


Just wondering if some of you hardcore anti-choice fanatics would be willing to go this route here in the USA???

On the downside, (for your viewpoint) your unwed teenagers would be bumping fuzzies more often.

Do you want to go this route or is it more important to keep out of wedlock sex dirty and sinful???

The question of whether or not the US could reduce it's abortion rate by adopting sex education policies similar to those of nations with relatively low aborton rates is a very interesting one. Unfortunately, this first post of yours isn't really pharsed in a way that seems conductive to respectful, informative debate.

 

[mpg]

What "route"? Be specific. Did you read the link? Basically it's saying that American adolescents are more promiscuous the European adolescents supposedly because Americans see adolescents as problems and we see sex as dirty. Sounds backwards to me.

 

[talloulou]

Did you know that the rate of abortion in the Netherlands is only 15% of the USA rate?

The Netherlands is less religious and provides extensive sex education and birth control for their adolecents.

It's also free under their Universal Health Care system.

Advocates For Youth - Adolescent Sexual Health in Europe and the U.S.—Why the Difference?


Just wondering if some of you hardcore anti-choice fanatics would be willing to go this route here in the USA???

On the downside, (for your viewpoint) your unwed teenagers would be bumping fuzzies more often.

Do you want to go this route or is it more important to keep out of wedlock sex dirty and sinful???

I'm sure the fact that their birth control is free and everyone is covered under a universal health plan is huge.

But still this is interesting:

Adults in the Netherlands, France, and Germany view young people as assets, not as problems. Adults value and respect adolescents and expect teens to act responsibly. Governments strongly support education and economic self-sufficiency for youth

I wish they went into that more specifically. Is it 'cause so many American kids have an extended youth where they live at home into their 20s?

Is it 'cause they are not sent out to play anymore like they use to be?

What does it mean to view them as assets and not problems specifically? Folks here complain about their teens sure, don't folks in Europe? I wish they elaborated on how Adults value and respect adolescents more. Do they mean legally? Do their teens have more rights from a legal standpoint?

 

[Agnapostate]

Troll much?

Jesus titty****ing Christ, man. The fact that the entire prohibitionist stance is undermined by the reality that countries with more liberal abortion policies have lower abortion rates (as I've noted previously), does illustrate the irrationality of the rightist stance, but isn't exactly a reason to call someone a troll. :shrug:

What does it mean to view them as assets and not problems specifically? Folks here complain about their teens sure, don't folks in Europe? I wish they elaborated on how Adults value and respect adolescents more. Do they mean legally? Do their teens have more rights from a legal standpoint?

Most likely. The more permissive sexual mores of the Scandinavian countries are most often focused on, but there seems to be a greater understanding that adolescence is a fairly recent social construct there also, as they've not allowed themselves to slip into the degree of rigid thinking that other Westerners might succumb to.

 

[dragondad]

You can see the same phenomena play out here in the States.

More secular, more liberal States that emphasize sex education more, have lower abortion rates.

RED-STATE / BLUE-STATE ABORTION RATES COMPARED:

All but one of the ten states with the LOWEST rates of abortion are considered “LIBERAL” :

Liberal 1 Massachusetts 2.4
Liberal 2 Connecticut 2.8
Liberal 3 New Jersey 3.0
Liberal 4 Rhode Island 3.2
Liberal 5 New York 3.3
Liberal 6 Pennsylvania 3.3
Liberal 7 Wisconsin 3.4
Conservative 8 North Dakota 3.4
Liberal 9 Maryland 3.5
Liberal 10 Minnesota 3.6

All but one of the Sixteen states with the HIGHEST rates of abortion are considered “CONSERVATIVE” :

Conservative 35 Texas 5.4
Conservative 36 Alaska 5.5
Liberal 37 Washington 5.6
Conservative 38 Mississippi 5.7
Conservative 39 Kentucky 5.8
Conservative 40 Arizona 5.8
Conservative 41 Florida 5.9
Conservative 42 New Mexico 6.0
Conservative 43 Idaho 6.2
Conservative 44 Alabama 6.2
Conservative 45 Indiana 6.6
Conservative 46 Wyoming 6.5
Conservative 47 Tennessee 6.6
Conservative 48 Oklahoma 6.7
Conservative 49 Arkansas 7.1
Conservative 50 Nevada 9.0

[Compiled from Center for Disease Control, National Center for Health Statistics; and Election Results from CNN.]

I mean they do refer to abortion as "murder" ...It seems they would be willing to expose their children to sex education in public schools if it would lower the abortion "murder rate" by more than half???

But I've got hunch why they don't.....because it's not really about abortion at all.....It's about the satisfaction that comes about by being a Christian scold and keeping sex dirty.

Their heart wouldn't be into this kind of program. Even though it does actually lower abortion rates. It would takes all the excitement out of their cause.....They'd much rather act like martyrs and feign righteous outrage and compel others to do what what they think is right.

 

[jamesrage]

Did you know that the rate of abortion in the Netherlands is only 15% of the USA rate?

The Netherlands is less religious and provides extensive sex education and birth control for their adolecents.

It's also free under their Universal Health Care system.

Advocates For Youth - Adolescent Sexual Health in Europe and the U.S.—Why the Difference?


Just wondering if some of you hardcore anti-choice fanatics would be willing to go this route here in the USA???

On the downside, (for your viewpoint) your unwed teenagers would be bumping fuzzies more often.

Do you want to go this route or is it more important to keep out of wedlock sex dirty and sinful???

This notion by you sick pro-baby killing fanatics that tax payer funded abortions and loose restrictions on abortion somehow contributes to low abortion rates is totally absurd. The only factors that would play into this would be sex education,whether or not teenagers in Europe are less promiscuous than American teenagers or if European teenagers actually use common sense when engaging in sexual intercourse by using a combination of condoms and birth control pills and other prophylactics. So no I would not favor loose abortion rules and tax payer funded abortions.

 

[prometeus]

After all, finger waging and condemnation fueled by hypocrisy and ignorance if far better than positive results. God forbid that self righteous zealots contribute in some way, other than lip service, to the cause they so fervently advocate.
But thank you for again confirming what the anti-choice crowd stands for.

 

[prometeus]

Troll much?

Ah, when confronted time and again with facts refuting a failed position, just accuse the the other side of trolling. Look up hypocrisy...

 

[Gray_Fox_86]

I'm sure the fact that their birth control is free and everyone is covered under a universal health plan is huge.

But still this is interesting:

Adults in the Netherlands, France, and Germany view young people as assets, not as problems. Adults value and respect adolescents and expect teens to act responsibly. Governments strongly support education and economic self-sufficiency for youth

I wish they went into that more specifically. Is it 'cause so many American kids have an extended youth where they live at home into their 20s?

Is it 'cause they are not sent out to play anymore like they use to be?

What does it mean to view them as assets and not problems specifically? Folks here complain about their teens sure, don't folks in Europe? I wish they elaborated on how Adults value and respect adolescents more. Do they mean legally? Do their teens have more rights from a legal standpoint?

From personal experience, after having traveled extensively in Europe and many US states.
In the US, authorities treat teens as scum and the authority figures enjoy to have that power. In Europe, authorities give space for the teens to do "normal" things that a person at that age would do. BUT if the person abuses his right to having some freedom he or she is punished whereas here in the US you are already being punished for not having done anything wrong.
And on top of that, parents in Europe talk with their children about everything and the children(teens) are at a young age exposed to sexuality such as red light districts where hookers are standing there and waiting.
The teen matures more rapidly when you are being exposed to real life and not hidden from it and when you have ideal parents.

 

[Goshin]

Ah, when confronted time and again with facts refuting a failed position, just accuse the the other side of trolling. Look up hypocrisy...

Look it up yourself bud. Plain fact is some hyperpartisan posts aren't worth more than a two-word reply, if any.

And you can stick that "hypocrisy" label where the sun don't shine, or else prove I am one.

 

[Arcana XV]

I'm sure the fact that their birth control is free and everyone is covered under a universal health plan is huge.

But still this is interesting:

Adults in the Netherlands, France, and Germany view young people as assets, not as problems. Adults value and respect adolescents and expect teens to act responsibly. Governments strongly support education and economic self-sufficiency for youth

I wish they went into that more specifically. Is it 'cause so many American kids have an extended youth where they live at home into their 20s?

Is it 'cause they are not sent out to play anymore like they use to be?

What does it mean to view them as assets and not problems specifically? Folks here complain about their teens sure, don't folks in Europe? I wish they elaborated on how Adults value and respect adolescents more. Do they mean legally? Do their teens have more rights from a legal standpoint?

The main difference I've personally noted is that teens are not considered to be children anymore here. Therefore, yes, they do have more legal rights, or at least they have them a lot sooner than in the US. For instance, the legal age of consent is generally much lower in Europe and, in many countries, teens are allowed to drink alcohol as low as 16 years old. The other important factor is the fact that many teens in Europe have the option to quit school at 16 and start an apprenticeship that catapults them into the adult world and makes them mature much faster.

Despite this permissive mindset, we don't seem to have rampant promiscuity among out youth or any major problems with underage drinking. The UK being the notable exception, of course. I still haven't figured out what they're doing wrong over there.

 

[PeteEU]

The UK being the notable exception, of course. I still haven't figured out what they're doing wrong over there.

There British..... that is why.

 

[Arcana XV]

There British..... that is why.

:rofl

You're BAD!

What happened to "No sex, please. We're British". Was that just a myth?

 

[Infinite Chaos]

-- Despite this permissive mindset, we don't seem to have rampant promiscuity among out youth or any major problems with underage drinking. The UK being the notable exception, of course. I still haven't figured out what they're doing wrong over there.

Our Govt tends to follow the American model on many policies so our figures tend to reflect American figures. Teen pregnancy / policies on care of children after divorce / sex education - they're all similar. The differences are we also have Social Security and Nationalised Health Care

The progressive European countries like Netherlands, Sweden etc tend to have better models on family and equality policy and this is reflected in how many divorced couples spend equal time with their kids / the pregnancy rates and abortion rates.

It's been pointed out many times to the Govt but there's a collective blindness / stupidity in our politicians when it comes to looking at changing these policies.

The most important difference between the UK and much of Europe is pay equality between the genders - I haven't quite figured it out yet but I think where women have nearly the same pay as men and the same equality you find that babies or getting childcare costs from a father aren't the best ways for many women to earn a living.

If you look at the UN Child Wellbeing report - the UK and US were equally low down on the scale (21st and 22nd) in comparison to much of western Europe on many of these factors.

BBC page on Wellbeing Report

UNICEF Page

 

[prometeus]

Look it up yourself bud. Plain fact is some hyperpartisan posts aren't worth more than a two-word reply, if any.

Oh they are worth more than that even if they are hyper partisan, which this was not. Fact remains that you could not refute it and because it goes against your dogmatic stance so you tried to dismiss it.

And you can stick that "hypocrisy" label where the sun don't shine, or else prove I am one.

I do not need to, you more than amply did already.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

-- What happened to "No sex, please. We're British". Was that just a myth?

We Brits wouldn't be here if that were true... or the aliens are breeding Brits somewhere in a secret facility? :mrgreen:

 

[Arcana XV]

Our Govt tends to follow the American model on many policies so our figures tend to reflect American figures. Teen pregnancy / policies on care of children after divorce / sex education - they're all similar. The differences are we also have Social Security and Nationalised Health Care

The progressive European countries like Netherlands, Sweden etc tend to have better models on family and equality policy and this is reflected in how many divorced couples spend equal time with their kids / the pregnancy rates and abortion rates.

It's been pointed out many times to the Govt but there's a collective blindness / stupidity in our politicians when it comes to looking at changing these policies.

The most important difference between the UK and much of Europe is pay equality between the genders - I haven't quite figured it out yet but I think where women have nearly the same pay as men and the same equality you find that babies or getting childcare costs from a father aren't the best ways for many women to earn a living.

If you look at the UN Child Wellbeing report - the UK and US were equally low down on the scale (21st and 22nd) in comparison to much of western Europe on many of these factors.

BBC page on Wellbeing Report

UNICEF Page

Interesting.

I didn't know there was no pay equality in the UK. I'm not sure that would factor into how some women decide that having babies and getting paid for it is their best option. I think that comes from too many government benefits that end up creating a welfare class that is extremely difficult to get out of.

 

[PeteEU]

:rofl

You're BAD!

What happened to "No sex, please. We're British". Was that just a myth?

Hey I call it as I see it

But yea, I do not understand either why British youth and young adults are such boozers when compared to the rest of Europe. I mean in Denmark we drink too as young people and from the hangovers I have had, we can overdo it, but it is no where near as bad as I understand it is in the UK... or from what I can see down here in Spain with the British tourists.

As for their sexuality.. well to be brutally honest, Brits are not known to be the most "liberated" sexually wise in Europe, and that stems in part in my opinion from their Imperial conservative days. It is in many ways still taboo.. but it has improved

 

[Infinite Chaos]

-- I didn't know there was no pay equality in the UK --

There are laws about equality of pay but they're not fully enforced - just as they aren't 100% enforced anywhere else. A Swedish friend of mine proudly told me that in a recent survey Swedish women came out best in pay and employment equality and even that (on average) was only about 80-90% compared to male pay.

Hey I call it as I see it

But don't hold the drunken british teenagers in Spain as the example for all Brits.. :roll:

But yea, I do not understand either why British youth and young adults are such boozers when compared to the rest of Europe. I mean in Denmark we drink too as young people and from the hangovers I have had, we can overdo it, but it is no where near as bad as I understand it is in the UK... or from what I can see down here in Spain with the British tourists.

That puzzles me too, many UK city centres have now become no-go zones after 10p.m. because of the "lad" culture we have grown in the last 20 years. Some say it's a direct result of Margaret Thatcher's Govt belief that there was no such thing as society - so you end up with a selfish, self absorbed hedonistic culture - add to that a drinking culture where quantity is more important than culture..

Anyhow - will be interesting to see the biological / evolutionary results where a generation drinks too much, smokes too much and generally engages in activity guaranteed to reduce sperm motility.

As for their sexuality.. well to be brutally honest, Brits are not known to be the most "liberated" sexually wise in Europe, and that stems in part in my opinion from their Imperial conservative days. It is in many ways still taboo.. but it has improved

Joking aside - the "Victorian Era" is exactly what it says it is - a period in time over 100 years ago. Things have moved on since.. :mrgreen:

 

[dragondad]

After all, finger waging and condemnation fueled by hypocrisy and ignorance if far better than positive results. God forbid that self righteous zealots contribute in some way, other than lip service, to the cause they so fervently advocate.
But thank you for again confirming what the anti-choice crowd stands for.

Well said.

Those that oppose sex education and making birth control free and easy in the US are the same set of folks that attempt to limit access to abortion.

They actually contribute to the high abortion rate.

But like I said ....it's really not about abortion with them, it's about the passion and excitement that comes about from being a religious scold.

 

[dragondad]

What "route"? Be specific. Did you read the link? Basically it's saying that American adolescents are more promiscuous the European adolescents supposedly because Americans see adolescents as problems and we see sex as dirty. Sounds backwards to me.

I read the link.

"Easy access to sexual health information and services leads to better sexual health outcomes for French, German, and Dutch teens when compared to U.S. teens. "

Did you read the entire link?

 

[talloulou]

The main difference I've personally noted is that teens are not considered to be children anymore here. Therefore, yes, they do have more legal rights, or at least they have them a lot sooner than in the US. For instance, the legal age of consent is generally much lower in Europe and, in many countries, teens are allowed to drink alcohol as low as 16 years old. The other important factor is the fact that many teens in Europe have the option to quit school at 16 and start an apprenticeship that catapults them into the adult world and makes them mature much faster.

Despite this permissive mindset, we don't seem to have rampant promiscuity among out youth or any major problems with underage drinking. The UK being the notable exception, of course. I still haven't figured out what they're doing wrong over there.

I bet the bold is a biggie. Our kids don't have that same opportunity on a wide scale. Today most everyone is encouraged to go to college despite college not being for everyone. The result is that college, for some, is merely an extended high school. We need to bring back the trade schools and apprenticeships.

 

[dragondad]

I bet the bold is a biggie. Our kids don't have that same opportunity on a wide scale. Today most everyone is encouraged to go to college despite college not being for everyone. The result is that college, for some, is merely an extended high school. We need to bring back the trade schools and apprenticeships.

But "conservatives" are against publicly funded trade schools and apprenticeships. The "free market" gives us the right amout of for profit trade schools. And if companies needs apprentices they will get them on their own.

So these USA teenagers will not get too far with Conservatives in that respect.