EU Court Says File Sharers Don't Have to be Named

[new coup for you]

What you're conveintly forgetting is that the industry you don't care about isn't your industry. Cultural production is the United State's largest export.

This is a little bit like if the US made it legal to steal French wine.

 

[PeteEU]

What you're conveintly forgetting is that the industry you don't care about isn't your industry. Cultural production is the United State's largest export.

This is a little bit like if the US made it legal to steal French wine.

And? Its suppose to be a free market is it not? Dont you think that the cultural production of other countries is "stolen" too? And how on earth do you steal wine? I know the US "imported" french vine trees back in the day, but thats about as close as you can get.

Yes downloading movies and what not off the net is stealing, I have never ever denied that. Yes the industries should be able to earn a living, I have never ever denied that. What you are missing is the fact that the industries in question are not adpating fast enough to a changing market place! Thats the whole point. What happens to a company that does not follow the times in a free market place? It goes bust!

But why are people stealing? Availablity and cost. DVDs and CDs have been overpriced for years and are now only falling because the industry has finally woken up. Because of the segregated market place put in place by the industries involved, the availablity has been limited. Thanks to the internet both of those issues can be solved, but the industries in question have been fighting inovation from the get go.

So again I say, I can not take the industries crocodile tears seriously as long as they dont inovate.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

That argument so far above your head it's almost funny. He said that it's fault of movie studios and music companies for wanting to make money of a product. Thats basically what you do in an economy. If it wasn't then everything would be free or you'd have the right to steal everything you feel you shouldn't have to pay for.

If the business model is outlamed, then they dont deserve to sell anything.. You cant force people to buy something, especially in the way you want but the customers dont.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

You obviously don't understand simple concepts like intellectual property and how patents work.

Yes I do, and I know them to be the reason why the people of earth are failing.. The patent system is rotten to the core and should be overhaulted and completely changed. Its the reason that lousy software like Microsoft is forced onto consumers though a dirty cooperation with the hardware manufacturers, while other software that is far superior like Linux is not even known by most people even tho its free.

The world is changing tho Hatuey, believe it or not, communism will and is winning, because its superior. Why should only one man benefit from an invention when everybody could(and should). Linux changed the world, wikipedia followed up.. The open and shared knowledge type of societies are going to completely take over in the future, and good is it so that everyone benefits from everything. The world is not about individuals, but about humanity and everyone.
Thats why humans will never enter space, never colonize or recreate ourselves before we all share with each other, have common goals and common plans.

Yo still live in a world of nationalism, copyrights and US vs USSR?

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

What you're conveintly forgetting is that the industry you don't care about isn't your industry. Cultural production is the United State's largest export.

This is a little bit like if the US made it legal to steal French wine.

The US makes Champagne although its bound to a geographical right..

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

Spoken like a true retard. Nobody who's downloaded a 100 songs will go to jail. Jail is reserved for people who are serious offenders(in the thousands). Thats how the legal system works in our country. If you break the law but not seriously then you get a fine. If you break the law to the extent where you've actually committed a felony. You go to jail.

Thanks for the remark, thats highly intelligent of you to start calling names, considering you arent considering all the facts.
At the moment it might be in the thousands, but you know what, before it was never, and in 2 years it might be anyone who download more than 2 songs(in the US)..

 

[new coup for you]

The US makes Champagne although its bound to a geographical right..

Which defends European theft?

 

[new coup for you]

Where did I say that? You are putting words in my mouth.

What I did say was that the companies are too slow to adapt to new techology, which is now biteing them in the butt. They can make all the money they want, and they do, but spare me the crocodile tears of a music executive or a top hollywood studio executives, when said people are the ones attempting to hold onto the current system as long as they can.

Look at the history of the DVD. First we got a dvd with regions. Why regions? So they could fragment the market and earn more money. Problem was that it made the trade in illegal DVD rips and online trading explode, as you could not legally buy a dvd in the US (which always got the movies first at the time, sometimes by a whole year) and play it in european or asian dvd players. Hell they even bullied manufactures into putting locking systems on their dvd machines so you could only change the regional code a few times. Windows STILL has that in its system. The DVD regional system is an utter and total faliure but they STILL stick to it.

The industries are filled with failed after failed attempts to control a market in a monopolistic way. Copyright laws are just that, an attempt to control content to specific countries or regions, and that is exactly the problem in a world where the internet has disovled said borders.

Let me give you an example. The 2006 World Cup in football. In Denmark the national TV station had the copyright to send it to Denmark. But they also have an expat package, that makes it possible to view its channels around Europe via satellite. Costs a bundle, but hey at least its possible. Now with the copyright on the World Cup being only for Denmark, they had to block the signal to the rest of Europe via the satellite as per the agreement. Now the funny part is that, the Germans showed all games live, and uncoded. Eurosport (a trans european sports channel) also showed all the games free to air (no code). The BBC and ITV did too. The only difference between the 4, is that the danish one had danish commentators, else the singal and games were exactly the same. Thats how warped copyright laws are.

The internet has made it able to get the newest tv show, or movie hours after it has premiered, but is it the studios that are distributing them? Of course not, because they are afraid to loose thier monopoly in various countries.

So again, I dont feel sorry one bit for an industry that is greedy (and no I dont mean they should not earn money) and not willing to adapt to the realities of the 21st century.

So how do you feel about EU farm subisidies? The wine analogy continues to work here. French wine is produced in an archaic and state subsidized manner and refuses to modernize. So...can I steal French wine?

Listen I steal music. We all do it. I, however, don't delude myself into think that it's some kind of moral act supporting world egalitarianism. And neither would Europeans if they were robbing their countrymen rather then mine.

 

[PeteEU]

So how do you feel about EU farm subisidies? The wine analogy continues to work here. French wine is produced in an archaic and state subsidized manner and refuses to modernize. So...can I steal French wine?

Your analogy does not work. First off wine production (basics) and distribution is the same world wide.There are no alternatives to how to distribute or produce the grape for wine. It comes in a container and is moved from country to country in said container. It is sold in glass bottles, paper boxes or plastic bottles. I guess you could sell them like bear (draft) but I doubt the consumer would think that it was good.

With music and films, you have the traditional distribuation method and sales method, that the industry is fighting to keep no matter what, plus you have a very segregated market totaly controlled by the same music and movie industry, but you also have new methods of distrubtion that more and more people prefer and yet the industry does not provide.

As for the archaic and state subsidized manner comment. Is the French wine making industry "old fashioned" when compared to others around the world? Maybe I dont know, but they dont refuse to use distribution and sales methods that consumers want as far as I can see. Plus stealing whine is a tad harder to conceal than some bytes on a harddrive.

But if you want to do the subsidized game lets try. How about Boeing, US car manufactures, US drug companies, US steel, US farming.. they are all subsidized, either directly or via protective laws.. can we steal that?

Listen I steal music. We all do it. I, however, don't delude myself into think that it's some kind of moral act supporting world egalitarianism. And neither would Europeans if they were robbing their countrymen rather then mine.

Who said it was a moral act? That stealing music and movies was "giving it to the man"? You are again putting words in my (and others) mouths. In no way do I defend the stealing of copywrited material in any of the comments I have made. What I am attempting to point out is that the issue was created by an industry refusing to inovate and accept new techology and that this refusal means I cant take thier whining seriously untill they start to accept the realities of the 21st century.

Now saying that, they have slowly (way to slowly) started to accept it, but again they are attempting to divide up the planet in copywrite zones which they control with an ironfist. That aint gonna stop the piracy, thats for sure.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

Which defends European theft?

Thats not the point, the point is that someone compared it to the US stealing French wine.. And I mention the stealing of French champagne.. You people here are never able to see the contexts.. Annoying..:doh

Besides, Americans and basically all the world has stolen European music for decades, our classics.. You have stolen our food, and are selling it in new packaging..

I think its completely ok that people download music, it contributes to cultural knowledge among people, of whom most could not afford to pay say 5000€ for the 2500 songs they have on their drive..

 

[new coup for you]

Here's a nuts idea...if you can't afford somthing...you don't get it.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

Here's a nuts idea...if you can't afford somthing...you don't get it.

And that is what is wrong with the world. Say that to an African who cannot afford to eat man. You have no idea what you are actually saying, do you?
Say that to some poor people in Thailand, and they will kill you and rape your family. America needs to be less selfish as well, Europe is a bit ahead there, but by far not doing enough and the right things either. Our societies are either amazingly selfish and egoistical or enormously stupid and ignorant about what is really going on and what is really important in this world.

The symbols of the failed world..

Left and right
Polar ideologies
Capitalism
Ego-centrism
Patents
Non-sharing of knowledge
Selfishness
Ignorance
Stupidity
Bullying of others
War
Misunderstanding

 

[new coup for you]

It's true, because Africans can't afford food, you should get free music.

 

[mikhail]

Is still stand by adapt or die for the music industry.Suing your customers what a brilliant strategy.The fact is the production is going to become obsolite.Bands will be able to record for themselves at ever increasing quality and make their music for download.The money will be in performing live like music should be.

I would be very happy if music came from those passionate about making good music and not from someone who has been put through the machine of making music based on how they can turn it into something that sacrafices content for appealing to the widest audience.

 

[Hatuey]

Thanks for the remark, thats highly intelligent of you to start calling names, considering you arent considering all the facts.

Says the guy who makes up things like "people will go to jail for downloading a 100 songs".

At the moment it might be in the thousands, but you know what, before it was never, and in 2 years it might be anyone who download more than 2 songs(in the US)..

You mean before there wasn't any downloading? Before it became a problem? Before people started selling bootleg DVDs for $5? Before what? You obviously don't have a working clue as to who can go to jail and who won't. Serious offenders go to jail. Enough of your ridiculous anti-U.S. remarks that simply show your lazy ignorance.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

It's true, because Africans can't afford food, you should get free music.

You really are smart. Arent you.. you can really connect things up there.. You really do have a lot of advanced cranial connections who can understand what I was saying..

If Africans cant buy food, its fair that they steal it or get it for free.

If someone who was starving to death stole my food, I would be happy, if someone who didn't starve to death stole my food I would hit him in the stomach until he puked it out again..

If poor Americans and Europeans can get culturally educated by stealing music or movies they cannot afford, then there is nothing better than that.. But perhaps you cheer ignorance, and hope that such people go to jail instead..

Keep the massses ignorant!!!!??

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

Says the guy who makes up things like "people will go to jail for downloading a 100 songs".

You just didn't understand that context, did you?

You mean before there wasn't any downloading? Before it became a problem? Before people started selling bootleg DVDs for $5? Before what? You obviously don't have a working clue as to who can go to jail and who won't. Serious offenders go to jail. Enough of your ridiculous anti-U.S. remarks that simply show your lazy ignorance.

Again you demonstrate the lack of understanding the full context of what me and you are debating here..


When AT&T starts giving away everyone who downloads copyright material, it will criminalize half its customers at least..

I am talking about downloads, not bootlegs, ok?

You know how law enforcement works? It will be brilliant for them when they can threaten everyone with jail and fines if they dont lie under threats or torture.

 

[new coup for you]

You really are smart. Arent you.. you can really connect things up there.. You really do have a lot of advanced cranial connections who can understand what I was saying..

If Africans cant buy food, its fair that they steal it or get it for free.

If someone who was starving to death stole my food, I would be happy, if someone who didn't starve to death stole my food I would hit him in the stomach until he puked it out again..

If poor Americans and Europeans can get culturally educated by stealing music or movies they cannot afford, then there is nothing better than that.. But perhaps you cheer ignorance, and hope that such people go to jail instead..

Keep the massses ignorant!!!!??

So poor people need to download Eminem or their basic human rights are being infringed?

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

So poor people need to download Eminem or their basic human rights are being infringed?

I am not even going to answer you.. I consider the exchange of posts between us for over in this thread, because you simply cannot understand what I am saying.. Be it my fault or your fault that you cannot, is irrelevant. :2wave:

 

[new coup for you]

I'd like to ask the conservatives on this board, if this is what I sound like to them.

If so, I apologize.

 

[Hatuey]

If Africans cant buy food, its fair that they steal it or get it for free.

You can't afford $1 songs? So much for the mighty Euro. No. If you can't afford material things like MUSIC it's not fair that you steal it. Food is not a material need. It is an essential need. You won't die from not listening to music. You will however die from not eating food. Don't even try to play the education argument. Eminem won't teach you sh!t other then being Detroit trailer trash and having shitty relationships with your ex-wife.

 

[Hatuey]

You just didn't understand that context, did you?

And you fail to understand logic. Nobody will ever go to jail for downloading a hundred songs. Jail is reserved for serial offenders in the range of thousands.

Again you demonstrate the lack of understanding the full context of what me and you are debating here..

Again you demonstrate that you don't have a clue as to what American laws actually are about.

When AT&T starts giving away everyone who downloads copyright material, it will criminalize half its customers at least..

They're already criminals you dumb POS.

I am talking about downloads, not bootlegs, ok?

Ummm they're directly connected. Downloading and bootlegging are joined at the hip.

You know how law enforcement works? It will be brilliant for them when they can threaten everyone with jail and fines if they dont lie under threats or torture.

Thanks for proving that you don't have a single clue as to what you're talking about.

 

[Khayembii Communique]

If you can't afford material things like MUSIC

Music isn't a "material thing".

 

[Hatuey]

Is still stand by adapt or die for the music industry.

Only because you don't have your own business.

Suing your customers what a brilliant strategy.The fact is the production is going to become obsolite.Bands will be able to record for themselves at ever increasing quality and make their music for download.The money will be in performing live like music should be.

Which justifies stealing music? How? Why not just wait until those evil greedy musicians start giving away free music? Think Radiohead who started a "pay what you want" type of deal.

I would be very happy if music came from those passionate about making good music and not from someone who has been put through the machine of making music based on how they can turn it into something that sacrafices content for appealing to the widest audience.

I'd be happy if there wasn't any war and we were all truly equal human beings without religious silliness getting in the way of reason. However that isn't realistic. And neither is your concept of what a business is. If I want to make as much money as possible as legally possible then thats my prerogative. If you don't feel like buying my product fine. But you don't have the right to steal it.

 

[Hatuey]

Music isn't a "material thing".

Really? Music became material the moment it was recorded on gramophone records and a price tag was put on it. Don't even try this semantics game.