EU Court Says File Sharers Don't Have to be Named

[Maximus Zeebra]

The EU's top court ruled that telecoms do not have to reveal file-sharers' names when subpoenaed in civil cases.

I just want to mention this as a victory for privacy, reason and liberty for Europe, while I also want to mention a second article about the US..
It means that Europeans can feel safe from spying, safe from leaks of data and government/police and military surveilance. It means that if there is a criminal case and a warrant, only then can data stored is not only stored for a maximus time, but also only given away to the courts..

It means that the 50% or so of the people with computers and internet are not liable to have their life ruined over something they did online, for example download a few MP3s..

"Bush Wants Telecom Spying Provisions Extended"

PC World - Bush Wants Telecom Spying Provisions Extended

In the US, everything is different, people have already had their lifes ruined over something they or someone else did on their computers. They are indebted for life and have a criminal record for downloading some movies or
music online. Its so widespread that it cannot be illegal, just like it would be unreasonable to fine and jail smokers tens of thousands of dollars and hand them new criminal records of they smoke.

In the US everything you do online can now basically be punised, and the selcetion is so and so, easy to make threats on, easy to avoid.. You civil liberites are again at risk.
Its not long before the amount of sattelites are increased to surveilance everyone, every day, all the time, making you into slaves and machines.. Thats 10 steps more on the path you are taking..

 

[DarkWizard12]

Wow, Europe actually did something right. Who knew?

 

[Khayembii Communique]

This is good news. However, they are already attempting to get around this. Recently it was discovered that an anti-piracy group was filing criminal suits to subpoena for the IP ID, dropping the criminal suit and then filing a civil suit based on the identification. Luckily, Swiss courts saw this was bullshit. We can expect this to happen in other European countries, though, but probably (and hopefully) with the same results.

The "anti-piracy" movement is dwindling fast.

 

[DarkWizard12]

hope the same thing happens in America soon, thats all I can say.

 

[mikhail]

These laws will be pointless sooner or later.The recording industry just has to change people arent gonna be using CDs at all in 5 years or so.Adapt or die.

 

[new coup for you]

so Europeans basically made it legal to rob Americans. A huge win for freedom, as well as a politically brave move for European politicians.

 

[Hatuey]

It means that the 50% or so of the people with computers and internet are not liable to have their life ruined over something they did online, for example download a few MP3s..

You mean Europeans don't have to take responsibility for what they do? Like say illegally download music? Gotta love that iron solid logic. Europe. The place where taking responsibility for breaking the law is taboo.

 

[Hatuey]

These laws will be pointless sooner or later.The recording industry just has to change people arent gonna be using CDs at all in 5 years or so.Adapt or die.

Apparently people aren't interested in paying for individual songs either. What then? Make them free because some 14 year old doesn't want to pay for music? What next? Let people free into concerts if they don't feel like paying? What folly. "Adapt or die" is a ridiculous catchphrase used by freeloaders.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

This is good news. However, they are already attempting to get around this. Recently it was discovered that an anti-piracy group was filing criminal suits to subpoena for the IP ID, dropping the criminal suit and then filing a civil suit based on the identification. Luckily, Swiss courts saw this was bullshit. We can expect this to happen in other European countries, though, but probably (and hopefully) with the same results.

The "anti-piracy" movement is dwindling fast.

Telefonica was pressed by the copyright music protection agency of Spain to give up all IP and users who use Kazaa. The EU courts ruled this not necessary, which means it can only be done in single cases, not in mass lawsuits or similar things.
It was refused because of EU privacy protection laws.

 

[PeteEU]

You mean Europeans don't have to take responsibility for what they do? Like say illegally download music? Gotta love that iron solid logic. Europe. The place where taking responsibility for breaking the law is taboo.

Bullshit.

France is pushing through a law that mean that anyone caught even downloading 1 illegal thing can have his connection to the internet removed and his name put on a blacklist among ISPs. Now chances are that it will be thrown out by the EU court, but dont tell me that the European goverments are not trying to hit down on illegal downloaders.

On the other hand its the movie, tv and music companies own fault that there is so much illegal download going on. Because we are such a well connected world, then people want stuff as soon as its released. That movie, music and tv (and software) producers have not figured this out yet, is thier own bloody fault. THey are too greedy and old fashioned.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

You mean Europeans don't have to take responsibility for what they do? Like say illegally download music? Gotta love that iron solid logic. Europe. The place where taking responsibility for breaking the law is taboo.

Europe dont criminalize masses(too many people share files).. Thus it will not be possible to get all the names from and ISP of people who use file sharing. However, single cases with reasonable criminal investigation is allowed.
Europe decriminalize marijuana also, because its too widespread..

In the US anyone is a target now basically, except the minority who never downloaded copyrighted material or smoke cannabis, or downloaded a JPEG image(those 3 combined make up 50% of US people at least). Thats a shame.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

Apparently people aren't interested in paying for individual songs either. What then? Make them free because some 14 year old doesn't want to pay for music? What next? Let people free into concerts if they don't feel like paying? What folly. "Adapt or die" is a ridiculous catchphrase used by freeloaders.

In most European countries cinema releases and DVD releases are released long after than in the US..

 

[PeteEU]

In most European countries cinema releases and DVD releases are released long after than in the US..

They are learning though. Quite a number of movies get same day or even before the US premiere. But it is of course not in all European countries. Even certain non major network tv series get European premiere before the US. Stargate SG1 and Atlantis is a good example, but thats made by the Sci Fi channel and a canadian/european company I believe

Basicly copyright laws and views on copyright by the big media companies are outdated in an ever changing modern high tech world.

A good example is tv series. It use to be that we in Europe were at least a season behind most US tv series, that is IF we even got them. Now days, we are only a few months even weeks (days for UK tv) behind the US. Thats an attitude change, but not good enough. But its not only the US companies fault, as many national media companies have "buyers of programs" that have the attitudes of a 90 year old often. A good example, is that in Denmark, it was not untill the early 2000s that we got our first regular sci fi tv series on any channel, private or public... Guess what one of the most popular illegal downloads in Denmark was at the time... Sci Fi TV series.

The same goes for movies. Its more and more common that movies have same day premiere in certain European countries, and even once in a while have world premieres in Europe and Asia a bit before the US. This has not stoped the downloading of course, but it is an attitude change by the US movie companies at least.

What should be done to combat the illegal downloading is pretty simple. Make all material available online for a small fee (a movie ticket price or less) the same day as it premieres in the tv, cinema and what not. And this should be world wide release, not single countries. Problem is the movie comapnies dont want to do that, as then they cant prey on the consumer in a segregated marketplace. So instead they are willing to whine and complain that people download movies and what not illegally, when the fault is in major part the companies themselvs.

Basicly I have zero pity for the companies and ony little pity for the artists.

 

[Hatuey]

On the other hand its the movie, tv and music companies own fault that there is so much illegal download going on. Because we are such a well connected world, then people want stuff as soon as its released. That movie, music and tv (and software) producers have not figured this out yet, is thier own bloody fault. THey are too greedy and old fashioned.

LoL it's the fault of people for wanting to make money off a product? Are you saying if something costs money you shouldn't have to pay for? You just made a "logical" case for free iPods.

 

[Hatuey]

In most European countries cinema releases and DVD releases are released long after than in the US..

Which means you should be allowed to illegally download. Give me a ****ing break. I wish gadgets in the U.S. market came out as fast as they do in the Japanese market. But they don't. That doesn't mean I get to steal electronics.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

What should be done to combat the illegal downloading is pretty simple. Make all material available online for a small fee (a movie ticket price or less) the same day as it premieres in the tv, cinema and what not. And this should be world wide release, not single countries. Problem is the movie comapnies dont want to do that, as then they cant prey on the consumer in a segregated marketplace. So instead they are willing to whine and complain that people download movies and what not illegally, when the fault is in major part the companies themselvs.

I dont agree.. Cinema releases should be seperate from other formats, it should be first.. Meaning, it should be released worldwide at the same time for cinema release.. The same thing with other format releases, they should all be released at the same time(but a few months after Cinema releases), DVD, online download, streaming etc, at variable costs. Streaming cheapest, online download second cheapest and then DVD/blue-ray as the high quality collection stuff, most expensive. Worldwide release again, and all formats at the same time.

 

[Hatuey]

In the US anyone is a target now basically, except the minority who never downloaded copyrighted material or smoke cannabis, or downloaded a JPEG image(those 3 combined make up 50% of US people at least). Thats a shame.

This is false. Give a single case of a person downloading less then 5,000 songs and then being sent to jail.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

LoL it's the fault of people for wanting to make money off a product? Are you saying if something costs money you shouldn't have to pay for? You just made a "logical" case for free iPods.

No he didnt.. Ipods have a wonderful business & market tactic, the movie businesses have a terrible business tactic...

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

Which means you should be allowed to illegally download. Give me a ****ing break. I wish gadgets in the U.S. market came out as fast as they do in the Japanese market. But they don't. That doesn't mean I get to steal electronics.

Of course you should be able to... If the device is patended in Germany and is released in February 2008 and not in the US and the rest until 2010. Then you have the choice to import or buy a pirate version.. The easier is obvious and very popular in for example China.. :mrgreen:

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

This is false. Give a single case of a person downloading less then 5,000 songs and then being sent to jail.

But even a guy with only 100 songs can be jailed, and get an unreasonable fine of 100ds of $ per song.. That makes 10s of thousands of dollars for only 100 songs..
AT&T will surveilance and give up every person who infringe copyrights in the US. Now or in 1 year, but it will, and are going to.

 

[Hatuey]

No he didnt.. Ipods have a wonderful business & market tactic, the movie businesses have a terrible business tactic...

That argument so far above your head it's almost funny. He said that it's fault of movie studios and music companies for wanting to make money of a product. Thats basically what you do in an economy. If it wasn't then everything would be free or you'd have the right to steal everything you feel you shouldn't have to pay for.

 

[Hatuey]

Of course you should be able to... If the device is patended in Germany and is released in February 2008 and not in the US and the rest until 2010. Then you have the choice to import or buy a pirate version.. The easier is obvious and very popular in for example China.. :mrgreen:

You obviously don't understand simple concepts like intellectual property and how patents work.

 

[Hatuey]

But even a guy with only 100 songs can be jailed, and get an unreasonable fine of 100ds of $ per song.. That makes 10s of thousands of dollars for only 100 songs..
AT&T will surveilance and give up every person who infringe copyrights in the US. Now or in 1 year, but it will, and are going to.

Spoken like a true retard. Nobody who's downloaded a 100 songs will go to jail. Jail is reserved for people who are serious offenders(in the thousands). Thats how the legal system works in our country. If you break the law but not seriously then you get a fine. If you break the law to the extent where you've actually committed a felony. You go to jail.

 

[Khayembii Communique]

Apparently people aren't interested in paying for individual songs either. What then?

The trend is moving towards a subscription-based service (such as what Qtrax was going to offer, but came too early in the game in my opinion, which is why it failed), although I'm not sure how exactly that would work, considering that DRM is dying and would then allow the complete freedom to distribute music obtained over such a service.

What they would probably have to do is offer something that free downloads don't get, such as lower prices (How much cheaper do you think it is to produce a cd to sell on iTunes as compared to actually manufacturing one to sell in the store? So then why are they relatively the same price?), higher quality audio files (.mp3's are pretty shitty quality when compared with CD quality or some other file formats out there, but since they're the most versatile and since people don't give a **** about audio quality they're the most popular) or some kind of bonus content that they could control. In other words, they'd have to remain competitive.

I listen to a lot of music that isn't popular enough to download because it isn't available anywhere, and because I am buying from small labels that I know will have a decent portion of my money going to the artist, so I'm more than happy to purchase from them. In fact, with the growth of technology over the past 20 years a ton of independent labels have sprung up; that's where I see the music industry gravitating towards in the next 10-20 years, although the fight the corps will put up will be vicious.

But anyways, I download music, and the one thing that sucks about it is that it isn't CD quality. I rarely get the album art, I get it in .mp3 format, sometimes the audio can be ****ed up and I don't really feel like I "have" it. Because of all that, if I like the music enough I'll go out and buy the CD.

Isn't the majority of the music industry's income from live shows nowadays anyways?

France is pushing through a law that mean that anyone caught even downloading 1 illegal thing can have his connection to the internet removed and his name put on a blacklist among ISPs.

We should expect this to happen more often. As the fat cats in the music industry start losing ground on this issue they are going to become more aggressive. This is just an example of their decline and not really a victory for them.

Spoken like a true retard. Nobody who's downloaded a 100 songs will go to jail.

That's the point, then, isn't it? According to the law you can be charged thousands of dollars for that and possibly do jail time, but it will never be enforced in that manner, even if someone was actually convicted of it.

 

[PeteEU]

LoL it's the fault of people for wanting to make money off a product? Are you saying if something costs money you shouldn't have to pay for? You just made a "logical" case for free iPods.

Where did I say that? You are putting words in my mouth.

What I did say was that the companies are too slow to adapt to new techology, which is now biteing them in the butt. They can make all the money they want, and they do, but spare me the crocodile tears of a music executive or a top hollywood studio executives, when said people are the ones attempting to hold onto the current system as long as they can.

Look at the history of the DVD. First we got a dvd with regions. Why regions? So they could fragment the market and earn more money. Problem was that it made the trade in illegal DVD rips and online trading explode, as you could not legally buy a dvd in the US (which always got the movies first at the time, sometimes by a whole year) and play it in european or asian dvd players. Hell they even bullied manufactures into putting locking systems on their dvd machines so you could only change the regional code a few times. Windows STILL has that in its system. The DVD regional system is an utter and total faliure but they STILL stick to it.

The industries are filled with failed after failed attempts to control a market in a monopolistic way. Copyright laws are just that, an attempt to control content to specific countries or regions, and that is exactly the problem in a world where the internet has disovled said borders.

Let me give you an example. The 2006 World Cup in football. In Denmark the national TV station had the copyright to send it to Denmark. But they also have an expat package, that makes it possible to view its channels around Europe via satellite. Costs a bundle, but hey at least its possible. Now with the copyright on the World Cup being only for Denmark, they had to block the signal to the rest of Europe via the satellite as per the agreement. Now the funny part is that, the Germans showed all games live, and uncoded. Eurosport (a trans european sports channel) also showed all the games free to air (no code). The BBC and ITV did too. The only difference between the 4, is that the danish one had danish commentators, else the singal and games were exactly the same. Thats how warped copyright laws are.

The internet has made it able to get the newest tv show, or movie hours after it has premiered, but is it the studios that are distributing them? Of course not, because they are afraid to loose thier monopoly in various countries.

So again, I dont feel sorry one bit for an industry that is greedy (and no I dont mean they should not earn money) and not willing to adapt to the realities of the 21st century.