Ethics and War

[MSgt]

Re:

You just discredited your entire argument with racial prejudice.
Besides, I think you need to look into Islam a little more before blaming a religion for the problems.

What the **** is wrong with you? Typical ****ing soldier to have served but has no idea what he was involved with. I think you need to look at the world a little closer. Open your ****ing eyes. There are Muslim extremists all over the world waging war on anybody not like them. They are slaughtering Christians in Sudan. They are killing Christians in Indonesia. They are killing Hindu Buddhists in India. They are waging war in Russia. China is nervous about one of their provinces that has a large movement of Muslim fundamentals. They are waging war within their own religion for the soul of Islam. Why are they doing this? At the heart of all their BS and smokescreens, they are embracing what they believe is the "true" Islam and they spout verses from the Koran and give glory to their god as they do it. And what are the majority of peaceful Islamics around the world, who do not practice this blashemous version of their religion, doing about it? Absolutely nothing. ISLAM is the problem. Study the god damn issues.

In the decaying Arab world, Islam is the problem—because of the way bitter old men interpret and deform its more humane precepts while embracing its cruelest injunctions. Baghdad fell, to the collective shame of those Islamists in power who prefer homegrown despots to Western-inspired democracy. The Islamist revenge is to slaughter their civilians. Millions of Muslims find such atrocities inspiring. Millions more view such cruelty as just. This is Islam in the Middle East. The Muslim majority are powerless to do anything but act as victim to their own leadership, as they listen to cleric sanctioned hate speech, which blames all of their troubles on America. The House of Saud are to blame for all of the religious perversion that has run amok in the Middle East and are guilty of every murder inflicted by Islamist extremists. These crimes are not just simply the act of a cluster of terrorists, but a reflection of the failure of the entire Middle Eastern Islamist world.

For all of their Muslim rantings, the terrorists of Al-Qaeda and its affiliates have returned to pre-Islamic practices, to behaviors that Moses, Christ and Mohammed uniformly rejected: They practice human sacrifice. The grisly decapitations caught on film and the explosives-laden cars driven into crowds, skyjacked commercial airplanes, the bombings of schools and the execution of kidnapped women are not sanctioned by a single passage in the Koran. Their ceremonious message is clear in their videotaped beheadings. The sermon always precedes the sacrifice. Then the human calf, shivering with terror, has his throat slit by the 'priest.' We might be watching a ceremony from 4,000 years ago. The attack on 9/11 was not a political act. It was a religious act, but it wasn't Islamic. This is a perversion. The Koran forbids the murder of innocents (as well as the taking of hostages and the abuse of prisoners). The 9/11 attacks were cult behavior from the dawn of civilization, employing modern tools.

Muslim clerics do not stand and point fingers at the viciousness of their own world. They are silent until America fights back. It is they that have been the cause and the root of the hate that is spewing out of the Middle East. For every rent-a-cleric the House of Saud pushes in front of a microphone, there is another one somewhere else that remains silent. When an entire civilization embraces such butchers, both the civilization and the religion are in trouble.

 

[Binary_Digit]

War is fought with ethics called Utilitarianism. Minimize the bad and maximize the good. If a soldier fights "dirty" and stays alive, it's good that he's still alive, but it's bad on a greater scale if his actions create a new enemy. Because in the end, his actions indirectly caused more death than they saved.

Please give examples of this.

There are lots of ways to make a 3rd party country sympathetic to your enemy, all you have to do is make your side look like the bad guy. Torture, rape, and execution are usually not met well with world opinion, so those are easy answers.

exactly, while you may hold yourself up as some highly enlightened individual
you are surrounded by animals who will kill you and conquer your country without a second thought
that is the real world
your idealism, while admirable, is naive and illequiped for survival in the world as it is

I don't think it's automatically good to react to the world's negatives with another negative. Maintaining the status quo only ensures the problems will be perpetuated. That's not to say I'm against violence for legitimate self-defense, I totally support that. Violence and death in war is unavoidable, but should be minimized to the greatest possible extent. And of course, war should be the absolute last alternative. However, the fact that voilence is unavoidable is not a good reason to write off all violence as "unavoidable."

Most people in the world would get along just fine in total pacifism. It's only the very few idiots out there who ruin it for the rest of us. Because of thieves I lock my door at night, and because of terrorists I think twice when I hear a low-flying airplane. That's the "real world" and it sucks. But I always try to remember that it's only the few, we are not actually "surrounded" by them.

talk is cheap

I normally agree with that cliche, but not in this context. Talk is very important when it comes to reducing violence. I read somewhere that upwards of 30% of all murders start with an argument that got out of hand. How many of the world's problems would be solved if people were better at solving disagreements through dialogue and not violence? Do you think that's just a "dream world", or is it possible we could actually promote non-violence by embracing it first? Of course it won't go away completely, but we can do better.

Warmaking isnt about making the world a better place it is about preservation of life and the way of it. However, if we didnt engage in WW1 and WW2 the world be be a worse place than it is today. So in actuality war does make the world a better place(in some cases). Now other wars are fought for the wrong reasons. Thats when it is just plain wrong.

Agreed, the world would be worse off if many countries had not joined the world wars. But if I recall, the Treaty of Versailles (whatever) was Hitler's main source of public support for invading Poland and starting World War 2. If Germany had not been blamed for starting WW1 when it actually started in Bulgaria, WW2 might not have happened. Peaceful resolution isn't about rolling over for the bastard who will kill you, it's about learning how to resolve differences before they turn into war. It won't work for individual psychopaths, but it CAN and WILL work among nations.

The only way to stop a bomb from going off is by killing the bomber? I had no idea.

If there's a better way, I'm all for it. Otherwise, kill the son of a bitch before he kills others.

It takes more balls to use nonviolence than it takes to use violence. Sticking your neck out for a men that want your neck is far more brave than engaging in a fight.

While I agree with both statements, I also think it's foolhearty to let someone have your neck when you know they just want to cut your head off. If violence is the only way to stop violence, then it should be used. The key phrase is "only way."

Does he want to steal something or did he break into my house simply to kill me?

What if he wants to steal your 4-year-old daughter and sell her into kiddie porn?

When the Islamic herd splits and condemns the family of Islamics that support murder in the name of Islam, and actively works to - and I mean ACTIVELY, the passive "assistance of Pakistan doesn't count - to contain the cancer their religion spawned among the towelheads, then and only then will I cease to view the entire herd of Islam as something less than the diseased used up cow that it seems to be.

I have read about Islamic leaders standing up to condemn quite a few major terrorist attacks since the USS Cole when I started following the news. We don't always hear about it, but it does happen. They don't have a major figurehead like the Pope to speak for them, so their vocal leaders aren't as visible in the public eye.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

There are lots of ways to make a 3rd party country sympathetic to your enemy, all you have to do is make your side look like the bad guy. Torture, rape, and execution are usually not met well with world opinion, so those are easy answers.


I don't think it's automatically good to react to the world's negatives with another negative. Maintaining the status quo only ensures the problems will be perpetuated. That's not to say I'm against violence for legitimate self-defense, I totally support that. Violence and death in war is unavoidable, but should be minimized to the greatest possible extent. And of course, war should be the absolute last alternative. However, the fact that voilence is unavoidable is not a good reason to write off all violence as "unavoidable."

Most people in the world would get along just fine in total pacifism. It's only the very few idiots out there who ruin it for the rest of us. Because of thieves I lock my door at night, and because of terrorists I think twice when I hear a low-flying airplane. That's the "real world" and it sucks. But I always try to remember that it's only the few, we are not actually "surrounded" by them.


I normally agree with that cliche, but not in this context. Talk is very important when it comes to reducing violence. I read somewhere that upwards of 30% of all murders start with an argument that got out of hand. How many of the world's problems would be solved if people were better at solving disagreements through dialogue and not violence? Do you think that's just a "dream world", or is it possible we could actually promote non-violence by embracing it first? Of course it won't go away completely, but we can do better.


Agreed, the world would be worse off if many countries had not joined the world wars. But if I recall, the Treaty of Versailles (whatever) was Hitler's main source of public support for invading Poland and starting World War 2. If Germany had not been blamed for starting WW1 when it actually started in Bulgaria, WW2 might not have happened. Peaceful resolution isn't about rolling over for the bastard who will kill you, it's about learning how to resolve differences before they turn into war. It won't work for individual psychopaths, but it CAN and WILL work among nations.


If there's a better way, I'm all for it. Otherwise, kill the son of a bitch before he kills others.


While I agree with both statements, I also think it's foolhearty to let someone have your neck when you know they just want to cut your head off. If violence is the only way to stop violence, then it should be used. The key phrase is "only way."


What if he wants to steal your 4-year-old daughter and sell her into kiddie porn?



I have read about Islamic leaders standing up to condemn quite a few major terrorist attacks since the USS Cole when I started following the news. We don't always hear about it, but it does happen. They don't have a major figurehead like the Pope to speak for them, so their vocal leaders aren't as visible in the public eye.

Theres a billion plus muslims. If there was a serious outcry or condemnation of this behavior you can bet you would hear it

 

[Caine]

Re:

Hate to be the one to tell you this, but everyone "narrows and stereotypes". The human mind is not capable of visualizing six distinct oranges, let alone six billion individual people. So when a bunch of individuals act like cattle in a herd, I'll treat the herd at a unit. And one of the largest herds on the planet is Islam.

When the Islamic herd splits and condemns the family of Islamics that support murder in the name of Islam, and actively works to - and I mean ACTIVELY, the passive "assistance of Pakistan doesn't count - to contain the cancer their religion spawned among the towelheads, then and only then will I cease to view the entire herd of Islam as something less than the diseased used up cow that it seems to be.

(Hint: Islam should move out of the 13th century and stop treating half of it's followers as subhuman dirty lust-provoking holes of sin)

If the whole of Islam had the sort of problem that you blame them for having, we would have ALOT of problems in America.
As of 2001, there were 1,104,000 people who followed the Islamic Faith in America, the 4th largest "classification" and the 3rd most followed religion in America (Non-Secular/Non-Religious is #2 "classification"). Of course, this is as of 2001, If someone could find a more updated source of information, there might be an increase in the Islamics in America, as between 1990 and 2001, Islamics increased by more than twice its size.

Seriously, stop treating these people like they all belief in the ignorance of the few extremists in the middle east. If they were all the way you say they are, we would have to kill nearly every Iraqi citizen in defense of our own lives in Iraq. Hell, we'd have to kill most Afghanis too. But we don't, because there are only a small number of Islamics who follow this extremist ideology of the jihad.

Maybe you should just give Islam a breif review, you'll find out its not as bad as you think. I know from my experience in Iraq, I learned alot from the interpreters we hired to assist us, when we weren't doing anything, I would talk to them and ask them questions, they didn't seem annoyed as they would ask us questions about our normal lives as well, and I learned alot from them about Islam.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Re:

If the whole of Islam had the sort of problem that you blame them for having, we would have ALOT of problems in America.
As of 2001, there were 1,104,000 people who followed the Islamic Faith in America, the 4th largest "classification" and the 3rd most followed religion in America (Non-Secular/Non-Religious is #2 "classification"). Of course, this is as of 2001, If someone could find a more updated source of information, there might be an increase in the Islamics in America, as between 1990 and 2001, Islamics increased by more than twice its size.

Seriously, stop treating these people like they all belief in the ignorance of the few extremists in the middle east. If they were all the way you say they are, we would have to kill nearly every Iraqi citizen in defense of our own lives in Iraq. Hell, we'd have to kill most Afghanis too. But we don't, because there are only a small number of Islamics who follow this extremist ideology of the jihad.

Maybe you should just give Islam a breif review, you'll find out its not as bad as you think. I know from my experience in Iraq, I learned alot from the interpreters we hired to assist us, when we weren't doing anything, I would talk to them and ask them questions, they didn't seem annoyed as they would ask us questions about our normal lives as well, and I learned alot from them about Islam.

It's a wonderful religion i am sure. Course it's been bastardize to fuel the murderof innocent people all over the world. This being the case, and pretty much undisputable. People in general I think are worried about keep themselves safe. And to do this they are suspicious of those that are similar to those that are killing people throughout the world. The connection to almost all of them are young male muslims. KNowing that, you keep an eye on them, seem only logical to me.

 

[Caine]

Re:

What the **** is wrong with you? Typical ****ing soldier to have served but has no idea what he was involved with. I think you need to look at the world a little closer. Open your ****ing eyes. There are Muslim extremists all over the world waging war on anybody not like them. They are slaughtering Christians in Sudan. They are killing Christians in Indonesia. They are killing Hindu Buddhists in India. They are waging war in Russia. China is nervous about one of their provinces that has a large movement of Muslim fundamentals. They are waging war within their own religion for the soul of Islam. Why are they doing this? At the heart of all their BS and smokescreens, they are embracing what they believe is the "true" Islam and they spout verses from the Koran and give glory to their god as they do it. And what are the majority of peaceful Islamics around the world, who do not practice this blashemous version of their religion, doing about it? Absolutely nothing. ISLAM is the problem. Study the god damn issues.

In the decaying Arab world, Islam is the problem—because of the way bitter old men interpret and deform its more humane precepts while embracing its cruelest injunctions. Baghdad fell, to the collective shame of those Islamists in power who prefer homegrown despots to Western-inspired democracy. The Islamist revenge is to slaughter their civilians. Millions of Muslims find such atrocities inspiring. Millions more view such cruelty as just. This is Islam in the Middle East. The Muslim majority are powerless to do anything but act as victim to their own leadership, as they listen to cleric sanctioned hate speech, which blames all of their troubles on America. The House of Saud are to blame for all of the religious perversion that has run amok in the Middle East and are guilty of every murder inflicted by Islamist extremists. These crimes are not just simply the act of a cluster of terrorists, but a reflection of the failure of the entire Middle Eastern Islamist world.

For all of their Muslim rantings, the terrorists of Al-Qaeda and its affiliates have returned to pre-Islamic practices, to behaviors that Moses, Christ and Mohammed uniformly rejected: They practice human sacrifice. The grisly decapitations caught on film and the explosives-laden cars driven into crowds, skyjacked commercial airplanes, the bombings of schools and the execution of kidnapped women are not sanctioned by a single passage in the Koran. Their ceremonious message is clear in their videotaped beheadings. The sermon always precedes the sacrifice. Then the human calf, shivering with terror, has his throat slit by the 'priest.' We might be watching a ceremony from 4,000 years ago. The attack on 9/11 was not a political act. It was a religious act, but it wasn't Islamic. This is a perversion. The Koran forbids the murder of innocents (as well as the taking of hostages and the abuse of prisoners). The 9/11 attacks were cult behavior from the dawn of civilization, employing modern tools.

Muslim clerics do not stand and point fingers at the viciousness of their own world. They are silent until America fights back. It is they that have been the cause and the root of the hate that is spewing out of the Middle East. For every rent-a-cleric the House of Saud pushes in front of a microphone, there is another one somewhere else that remains silent. When an entire civilization embraces such butchers, both the civilization and the religion are in trouble.

Again, I know about the Islam that many of the people actually study.
Just because there is a following of ignorant extremists, that doesn't make the entire Religion and everyone who follows it a "towelhead" and that doesn't mean we should completely eraticate Islam, as I see is the popular opinion among your "kind".
Research what REAL Islam is, and stop arguing about the faction of extremists out there.
If the religion itself was the problem than we would have bigger problems than 9/11, as over one million people in the United States follow Islam. If the basis of thier religion was to try to kill people who were not like them, we would have a much larger problem right here in our own country.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Re:

Again, I know about the Islam that many of the people actually study.
Just because there is a following of ignorant extremists, that doesn't make the entire Religion and everyone who follows it a "towelhead" and that doesn't mean we should completely eraticate Islam, as I see is the popular opinion among your "kind".
Research what REAL Islam is, and stop arguing about the faction of extremists out there.
If the religion itself was the problem than we would have bigger problems than 9/11, as over one million people in the United States follow Islam. If the basis of thier religion was to try to kill people who were not like them, we would have a much larger problem right here in our own country.

Seems like a lot of people are being killed in the name of islam. Does the religion not fuel those that are doing the kiling? They kill in the name in the name of islam and allah

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Re:

War is against an opposing army or force.
Terrorism is against civilians.
There is no connection between the two.
If I was to think your way, then the War on Drugs is a terrorist act towards drug dealers and users.

Killing is killing. Uniform or not.

Comparing nonviolence to appeasement is infinately more ridiculous than comparing one version of killing to another.

 

[mixedmedia]

Re:

Cool...... now im a warmonger.

I guess anyone that defends themselves from child killing throat cutting animals is a war monger... I except the title gladly then.

Course if we just open up like you want and do nothing maybe they can kill more then 3000 next time.
Maybe you haven't noticed but until the bomb goes off or the plane crashes into the building there wass no way of knowing they were terorrist. There is one thread that connects almost every terrorist killing in the world over the last 20 years. OOOO make it two, they were all humans, whats the other... Muslim males maybe? Course now I think woman are getting into the mix a little bit.

I didn't call you a warmonger personally. I refer to the mindset which has been encouraged by warmongers (ie, those in position to impose war) among their citizenry to soften the guilt associated with the killing of innocents during war.

Although, I admit I find it humorous that you take exception to it. Being you are so open and supportive of generalizations and all.

Taking a non-violent course of action isn't "not doing anything." It is in fact the quite active encouragement of non-violent solutions to social, cultural and geo-political conflicts. And no one has any idea what it might accomplish on a global scale because it has never been tried. Speculations can take a hike because I have yet to see unfailing accuracy in man's ability to predict the vagaries of human nature.

Yet non-violence is a major tenet of the underlying philosophy that all of Western civilization has been built upon. Proving that man has faith neither in philosophy nor his fellow man.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

While I agree with both statements, I also think it's foolhearty to let someone have your neck when you know they just want to cut your head off. If violence is the only way to stop violence, then it should be used. The key phrase is "only way."

When you use violence to stop violence you haven't really stopped violence have you?

What if he wants to steal your 4-year-old daughter and sell her into kiddie porn?

Simple, I would not allow him to do so.

 

[Caine]

Re:

Seems like a lot of people are being killed in the name of islam. Does the religion not fuel those that are doing the kiling? They kill in the name in the name of islam and allah

Again, those are a part of the small group (when compared to the whole of Islam) of ignorant fools who don't understand thier religion well, or who are being pursuaded by old crusty men with agendas of thier own.

If it was preached in Islam to kill others who aren't like you in the name of Islam, the US and the world as a whole would be in a much bigger problem than just Iraq and Afghanistan, or Sudan, or Syria...... as there are an estimated 1.2 BILLION Islamics worldwide, and no more than 20% of those live in the Arabic-Speaking world.

My previous mentions of 1 million Islamics in the USA could be out of date according to the estimation of this other website I have found that I would recommend to all you people who keep insisting that Islam is a hate religion.....

http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp?Page=aboutIslam

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Re:

Thats exactly what it is. And if your fighting or oposing someone who has nothing but contempt for you and your exsistence, then your only going to end up one way... DEAD

If you truly believe anything in the above statement, you know nothing of nonviolence.

 

[Caine]

Re:

It's a wonderful religion i am sure. Course it's been bastardize to fuel the murderof innocent people all over the world. This being the case, and pretty much undisputable. People in general I think are worried about keep themselves safe. And to do this they are suspicious of those that are similar to those that are killing people throughout the world. The connection to almost all of them are young male muslims. KNowing that, you keep an eye on them, seem only logical to me.

So should all abortion facilities world-wide be suspiscous and "on the lookout" for Christians because of the ignorant Christsians who bomb abortion facilities in the name of thier religious morals???????

 

[Donkey1499]

Re:

If the whole of Islam had the sort of problem that you blame them for having, we would have ALOT of problems in America.
As of 2001, there were 1,104,000 people who followed the Islamic Faith in America, the 4th largest "classification" and the 3rd most followed religion in America (Non-Secular/Non-Religious is #2 "classification"). Of course, this is as of 2001, If someone could find a more updated source of information, there might be an increase in the Islamics in America, as between 1990 and 2001, Islamics increased by more than twice its size.

Seriously, stop treating these people like they all belief in the ignorance of the few extremists in the middle east. If they were all the way you say they are, we would have to kill nearly every Iraqi citizen in defense of our own lives in Iraq. Hell, we'd have to kill most Afghanis too. But we don't, because there are only a small number of Islamics who follow this extremist ideology of the jihad.

Maybe you should just give Islam a breif review, you'll find out its not as bad as you think. I know from my experience in Iraq, I learned alot from the interpreters we hired to assist us, when we weren't doing anything, I would talk to them and ask them questions, they didn't seem annoyed as they would ask us questions about our normal lives as well, and I learned alot from them about Islam.

Finally, a Democrat with some brains. LOL

 

[Deegan]

Re:

Again, those are a part of the small group (when compared to the whole of Islam) of ignorant fools who don't understand thier religion well, or who are being pursuaded by old crusty men with agendas of thier own.

If it was preached in Islam to kill others who aren't like you in the name of Islam, the US and the world as a whole would be in a much bigger problem than just Iraq and Afghanistan, or Sudan, or Syria...... as there are an estimated 1.2 BILLION Islamics worldwide, and no more than 20% of those live in the Arabic-Speaking world.

My previous mentions of 1 million Islamics in the USA could be out of date according to the estimation of this other website I have found that I would recommend to all you people who keep insisting that Islam is a hate religion.....

http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp?Page=aboutIslam

The religion has some changing to do, not just with the extremists!

Just as the faith of other religions have changed as the world has, this religion needs to address some of the problems their good books are responsible for, and have created. The Muslims and the Christians have been going at it for a thousand years, but I believe the Christians have been more willing to address the words that have fueled so much hatred and animosity. It is time that this religion do the same, and adjust with the world we live in today.

 

[MSgt]

Re:

Again, I know about the Islam that many of the people actually study.
Just because there is a following of ignorant extremists, that doesn't make the entire Religion and everyone who follows it a "towelhead" and that doesn't mean we should completely eraticate Islam, as I see is the popular opinion among your "kind".
Research what REAL Islam is, and stop arguing about the faction of extremists out there.
If the religion itself was the problem than we would have bigger problems than 9/11, as over one million people in the United States follow Islam. If the basis of thier religion was to try to kill people who were not like them, we would have a much larger problem right here in our own country.

It's not my kind. My kind identify the problem and dismiss any attempt to make it "politically correct." My kind realize that the "fraction" of extremists that are perverting this religion and their puppet master Clerics in so many different countries have a legion of millions of followers that cheer them on for their god.

The fact that we do not have this problem in our country or the rest of the world and the fact that it is mostly focused on the Middle East, speaks volumes on this civilization. Islam is very much the problem. There is a struggle within Islam and the peaceful majority are silent.

 

[Donkey1499]

Re:

Killing is killing. Uniform or not.

Comparing nonviolence to appeasement is infinately more ridiculous than comparing one version of killing to another.

I wish we could live in a peaceful world, but someone out there will always want to hurt someone else. There will always be evil, whether we like it or not.

 

[Donkey1499]

Re:

It's not my kind. My kind identify the problem and dismiss any attempt to make it "politically correct." My kind realize that the "fraction" of extremists that are perverting this religion and their puppet master Clerics in so many different countries have a legion of millions of followers that cheer them on for their god.

The fact that we do not have this problem in our country or the rest of the world and the fact that it is mostly focused on the Middle East, speaks volumes on this civilization. Islam is very much the problem. There is a struggle within Islam and the peaceful majority are silent.

But really Medieval Christianity and Modern Islamo-Fascism are no different. Christians use to murder innocent ppl in the name of God. They were both led ignorant retards.

 

[MSgt]

Re:

So should all abortion facilities world-wide be suspiscous and "on the lookout" for Christians because of the ignorant Christsians who bomb abortion facilities in the name of thier religious morals???????

I love this. This is always the typical narrow mindedness answer to Muslim extremists. Until the handful of zealot Christians that have blown up a hand full of abortion clinics...

1) start organizing
2) start beheading people and video taping it while chanting to God to the glee of millions of Muslims in one region
3) start skyjacking airplanes and crashing them into buildings and delivering God his blood offerings
4) start strapping bombs to their chests and seek out a group of civilians to murder for God

....you may stop comparing the issue.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Re:

I didn't call you a warmonger personally. I refer to the mindset which has been encouraged by warmongers (ie, those in position to impose war) among their citizenry to soften the guilt associated with the killing of innocents during war.

Although, I admit I find it humorous that you take exception to it. Being you are so open and supportive of generalizations and all.

Taking a non-violent course of action isn't "not doing anything." It is in fact the quite active encouragement of non-violent solutions to social, cultural and geo-political conflicts. And no one has any idea what it might accomplish on a global scale because it has never been tried. Speculations can take a hike because I have yet to see unfailing accuracy in man's ability to predict the vagaries of human nature.

Yet non-violence is a major tenet of the underlying philosophy that all of Western civilization has been built upon. Proving that man has faith neither in philosophy nor his fellow man.

Who said I took exception to it. Maybe you should reread my post. What you call a warmonger seems to be anyone willing to stand up and defend themselves from these animals. I wil accept that title gladly and with pride. Again my opinion is that non violence does not work with people that despise you and your exsistence. What it does is make you an easier target. If you could have all the non violent protesters in one place at one time they could kill you with one bomb instead of wasting time and money on multiple detonations. You seem to forget that they don't care if you die. It does not faze them. There book says that if you die in there pursuit it's ok. So exactly how does non violence work when your life means nothing to those that you are protesting.
Sorry... I would rather fight and live then sit and die.

 

[MSgt]

Re:

But really Medieval Christianity and Modern Islamo-Fascism are no different. Christians use to murder innocent ppl in the name of God. They were both led ignorant retards.

This being the key word..isn't it?

Throughout history, from the days of Jewish rebels against Rome and Islam’s early and recurrent fractures, through 16th-century Spanish Catholicism alarmed at the advent of alternate paths to salvation, to 19th-century Protestantism startled by Charles Darwin, religions under siege invariably have responded by returning to doctrinal rigor and insisting upon the damnation of nonbelievers. Each major religion has known its share of threats to its philosophical and practical integrity. Our age happens to be a losing era for Islam, when its functionality as a mundane organizing tool has decayed in much of the world—just as European Christianity had done by the beginning of the 16th century.

Why should we not hold their behavior accountable instead of dismissing them as acts that other religions participated in centuries ago? Should the fear of hypocrisy because of Christian “witch burnings at Salem” prevent us from protecting ourselves? Oh sure, you'll find current rogue acts of perversions made by people in other religions, but you will not find such acts passed off as the will of God. Their society has stagnated centuries ago and are now unable to compete against the rest of the world, because of their religious oppressions and perversions. No where else in the world will you find Islam in such a failing state. This is a Middle Eastern problem and it has been leaking on to our civilization for decades.

In the Middle East, the heavens are falling, and the Earth is wracked by failure. The result was predictable, had we been willing to open our eyes. History has seen human beings react to cultural crises by fleeing into cults that sought revenge. Instead of returning to a "pure" Islam, the terrorists are building a blood cult, a deformed offshoot of their faith that revives the most primitive and grotesque of religious practices that many other religions have partaken throughout history and they have milions of followers that are seeking answers to what is wrong with their society. This crisis has never been as intense as in the Middle East, where treasured values and inherited behaviors simply do not work in the 21st century.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Re:

Again, those are a part of the small group (when compared to the whole of Islam) of ignorant fools who don't understand thier religion well, or who are being pursuaded by old crusty men with agendas of thier own.

If it was preached in Islam to kill others who aren't like you in the name of Islam, the US and the world as a whole would be in a much bigger problem than just Iraq and Afghanistan, or Sudan, or Syria...... as there are an estimated 1.2 BILLION Islamics worldwide, and no more than 20% of those live in the Arabic-Speaking world.

My previous mentions of 1 million Islamics in the USA could be out of date according to the estimation of this other website I have found that I would recommend to all you people who keep insisting that Islam is a hate religion.....

http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp?Page=aboutIslam

That small group seems to have no problem killing a LOT of people....

 

[Donkey1499]

Re:

I love this. This is always the typical narrow mindedness answer to Muslim extremists. Until the handful of zealot Christians that have blown up a hand full of abortion clinics...

1) start organizing
2) start beheading people and video taping it while chanting to God to the glee of millions of Muslims in one region
3) start skyjacking airplanes and crashing them into buildings and delivering God his blood offerings
4) start strapping bombs to their chests and seek out a group of civilians to murder for God

....you may stop comparing the issue.

You forgot #5: And living in caves. LOL

 

[Donkey1499]

Re:

This being the key word..isn't it?

Throughout history, from the days of Jewish rebels against Rome and Islam’s early and recurrent fractures, through 16th-century Spanish Catholicism alarmed at the advent of alternate paths to salvation, to 19th-century Protestantism startled by Charles Darwin, religions under siege invariably have responded by returning to doctrinal rigor and insisting upon the damnation of nonbelievers. Each major religion has known its share of threats to its philosophical and practical integrity. Our age happens to be a losing era for Islam, when its functionality as a mundane organizing tool has decayed in much of the world—just as European Christianity had done by the beginning of the 16th century.

Why should we not hold their behavior accountable instead of dismissing them as acts that other religions participated in centuries ago? Should the fear of hypocrisy because of Christian “witch burnings at Salem” prevent us from protecting ourselves? Oh sure, you'll find current rogue acts of perversions made by people in other religions, but you will not find such acts passed off as the will of God. Their society has stagnated centuries ago and are now unable to compete against the rest of the world, because of their religious oppressions and perversions. No where else in the world will you find Islam in such a failing state. This is a Middle Eastern problem and it has been leaking on to our civilization for decades.

In the Middle East, the heavens are falling, and the Earth is wracked by failure. The result was predictable, had we been willing to open our eyes. History has seen human beings react to cultural crises by fleeing into cults that sought revenge. Instead of returning to a "pure" Islam, the terrorists are building a blood cult, a deformed offshoot of their faith that revives the most primitive and grotesque of religious practices that many other religions have partaken throughout history and they have milions of followers that are seeking answers to what is wrong with their society. This crisis has never been as intense as in the Middle East, where treasured values and inherited behaviors simply do not work in the 21st century.

I didn't mean to use the Crusades as an excuse. I just posted that for some reason that I can't remember right now.

 

[mixedmedia]

Re:

It's a wonderful religion i am sure. Course it's been bastardize to fuel the murderof innocent people all over the world. This being the case, and pretty much undisputable. People in general I think are worried about keep themselves safe. And to do this they are suspicious of those that are similar to those that are killing people throughout the world. The connection to almost all of them are young male muslims. KNowing that, you keep an eye on them, seem only logical to me.

Most serial killers of women in America are white males. So following your logic I can view them all suspiciously and assume they are all serial killers. Just to be on the safe side?


Per capita the comparison is closely, if not completely, relevant.