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Estimate: 680,000 Gazans murdered; 380,000 under 5 years old

Apocalypse said:
The nonsense you were pushing is made up. I am not required to base it for you. It's also idiotic that you even believe that.
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OK, demonstrate how it is made up.

No, you are never required to do anything on an anonymous forum. Failing to provide evidence beyond "nuh uh" to support your claim makes your assertions look weak, however.
 
Lycanthrope said:
Thank you. Sorry, I thought I had responded to that yesterday but apparently hadn't hit send.

Seeing reports of anywhere from 45,000 to 64,000 deaths since Israel began its military campaign.

apnews.com

Palestinian death toll passes 64,000, health officials say, as Israel and Hamas dig in on demands

Health officials in the Gaza Strip say that more than 64,000 have been killed in the nearly two-year war.
apnews.com apnews.com
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I agree. Do you also agree the numbers in excess of 600,000 are ludicrous?
 
Lycanthrope said:
OK, demonstrate how it is made up.

No, you are never required to do anything on an anonymous forum. Failing to provide evidence beyond "nuh uh" to support your claim makes your assertions look weak, however.
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The burden of proof is on whomever chooses to make the claim that a trillion Gazans were slaughtered (or whatever other crazy number one comes up with).
 
Lycanthrope said:
Yes, I agreed it was a vastly inflated number in the post I made to respond to you but somehow failed to click send.
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Based on what? They did a study, you didn't; the numbers you cited are based on specific counts we know are greatly undercounted. Other studies, such as Lancet, also show much larger numbers. Perhaps it's not correct, or is correct, but citing the numbers you did says nothing about the answer.
 
Craig234 said:
Based on what? They did a study, you didn't; the numbers you cited are based on specific counts we know are greatly undercounted. Other studies, such as Lancet, also show much larger numbers. Perhaps it's not correct, or is correct, but citing the numbers you did says nothing about the answer.
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Whether it's 45,000 or 68,000 or 680,000, it's an atrocity.

And America is financing it.
 
JBG said:
Bottom line, Gaza needs to surrender. They started a war against Israel that they cannot win. Even the Nazis and the imperial Japanese were more versible towards their own people than the leaders of Hamas, luxuriating in Doha.
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Which they, the tens of thousands dead children?
 
Mr Person said:
A meme-formatted claim citing a doctor (of?) and a professor (of?) supposedly "calculating" a death toll over 10x what Hamas's own Health Ministry says?

If people are really going to accept that uncritically....
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Hamas own Health Ministry has most likely been minimizing the actual death toll since day 1.
 
joluoto said:
Hamas own Health Ministry has most likely been minimizing the actual death toll since day 1.
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The Health Ministry lists only confirmed deaths where the victim has been identified. Their information is supported by independent NGOs such as MSF.

There are likely tens of thousands of bodies in the rubble that haven't been counted yet, and likely never will.

The death toll from a genocide is often estimated via census. The US and Israel intend to carry out ethnic cleansing by forced relocation of surviving Palestinians so that census may never happen.
 
Mr Person said:
A meme-formatted claim citing a doctor (of?) and a professor (of?) supposedly "calculating" a death toll over 10x what Hamas's own Health Ministry says?

If people are really going to accept that uncritically....
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2.2 million went in before the key was thrown away. We’ll see how many will come out once the doors open. I’m sorry to say, but the figure of 680,000 is still optimistic. Let’s hope…
 
Felis Leo said:
This is fascist logic, JBG. Holding literally every man, woman, and child of a distinct national group responsible for what some members of their national group does is truly repugnant. It does not even hold water as an actual principle because I doubt you believe you and other fellow Americans should be held responsible and killed for the horrible things our government has done across the world, do you? If every American tourist in Vietnam was rounded up and murdered by angry Vietnamese citizens or their government, would you really be saying "Well, it was stupid of those folks to go over. What did they think was going to happen after what our boys did at My Lai?"
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If Hamas cared all about being civilized they would guide an orderly surrender. If the people want to go on fighting, well, FAFO.
 
Juks said:
2.2 million went in before the key was thrown away. We’ll see how many will come out once the doors open. I’m sorry to say, but the figure of 680,000 is still optimistic. Let’s hope…
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There were a bit more than 2m civilians in Gaza prior to the October 7 massacres initiating this war and there are about the same number of civilians in Gaza today two years later. It's idiotic and it's a claim only made by those who happen to also support genocidal antisemitic monsters which makes it ironic.
 
hecatmoggie said:
even more relevant do you think 2 million people should be crammed into such a small area and live pretty much on humanitarian aid only ?
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Two replies from you, two attempts of cutting Israeli barbarism towards the Palestinians out of the equation/context.

So, let's not allow anyone reading this to be fooled that you remotely care about the plight of the 2 plus million people who have been forced to exist in an Israeli concentration camp for nearly 20 years where the monotony of life is only broken up by the regular mass slaughters carried out by the Israeli military.
 
Getting truly accurate statistics is challenging when the scale of violence is so great. As an example, Chinese and Japanese scholars go back and forth over the number of deaths from the Nanjing Massacre. Japan's scholars have low-balled the figure at closer to 50,000 or so in the past, whereas some Chinese sources have indicated the number was 300,000 or more. The truth is probably in between, but does it really matter? I think we know a massacre when we see one.

Turning to Gaza (and now the West Bank), how many civilians have been killed? How many are missing but perhaps alive and uncounted? How many might have somehow escaped? We'll likely never know the accurate figures to answer these questions, but we already know enough to know that this is a horrific crime against humanity and as obvious an example of ethnic cleansing as one can find.
 
Apocalypse said:
There were a bit more than 2m civilians in Gaza prior to the October 7 massacres initiating this war
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The conflict is over a century old and the context is that in the year 2023 , prior to 7th October attack , over 230 Palestinians had already been killed by the Israeli military/illegal settlers with the Israeli air force carrying out air strikes in the West Bank.

So, with the killing hundreds of people and the engaging in bombing of civilian areas was happening long before 7th October to the Palestinian people, correct ?

Reasonable people who hold equal value to lives lost would have factored in the above and not be selling a lie that this " war" ( wars usually see two armies fighting each other, not the mass slaughter of a defenceless people one one side by a hi tech military ) only began when Jewish lives were lost in significant numbers.


Apocalypse said:
and there are about the same number of civilians in Gaza today two years later.
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Yes, with at least 70,000 of them known to have been murdered and countless others yet to be confirmed as dead seeing as they have been rotting in the rubble and/or in mass graves all at the hands of the terrorists in the Israeli military
Apocalypse said:
It's idiotic and it's a claim
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His claim includes the injured and is obviously a substantial under estimate and thus the only " idiocy" is in its inaccuracy as that underestimate
Apocalypse said:
only made by those who happen to also support genocidal antisemitic monsters which makes it ironic.
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The Palestinians are a semitic people and you are the greatest cheerleader for their continuing monstrous genocide and that's the real irony on display in your texted garbage.
 
JBG said:
I doubt you believe that but I am on the verge of believing that. Just not quite there yet.
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You're right, I doubt he does believe that and his use of sarcasm seems to have completely eluded you.

It's probably much more likely that you believe it.
 
bythoughts said:
I don't know what Hamas is thinking. They're sure not sitting around in easy chairs debating "well what can we do to make the lives of Palestinians a little better?" I am honestly suspicious that Netanyahu simply paid them off or made some other deal to get them to attack, just as I was suspicious that Osama bin Laden was paid for his attack to justify the long expensive wars after 9/11. I think they have every reason to downplay the deaths in order to keep their subjects dutifully in line with ... whatever nonsense they are up to.
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Sometimes you don't have to pay people to have them present the perfect opportunity for you to prosecute a long term goal using a plausible excuse, you just need to goad them enough and just allow their planned actions to go ahead.

I think the two situations above are likely what happened to lesser or greater degrees.
bythoughts said:
Speaking of 9/11... think about how many people we NEVER found a piece of, not even enough to detect DNA, with all the resources of an intact United States to call on. Think of how many people died from breathing the dust while looking for survivors. And Gaza is ... one big 9/11 site. So I don't have a hard time believing the numbers could be that high. I don't know they are, but I know I don't believe Hamas.
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Additionally, with the 9/11 attacks the damage to buildings was extremely small in relation to the urban areas that surrounded them, not so the case in Gaza where everyone can see the monstrous level of damage/rubble piled up there. It would be massively foolish imo to not think there were thousands upon thousands of dead bodies buried in amongst and under it.
 
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