Eric Adams Acknowledges Progressive Criminal Justice Reforms Contribute to Growing Crime Rates

[Schism]

Eric Adams Acknowledges Progressive Criminal Justice Reforms Contribute to Growing Crime Rates

New York City Mayor Adams (D) said Sunday that he agreed with comments made last week by former NYPD Commissioner William Bratton, who said progressive politics surrounding the criminal justice system has led to a spike in crime in American cities.

Agreed. Every Democrat run city is facing the same problem.

Bratton said Thursday on the "Bloomberg Businessweek" podcast, "The scales right now are tipped very heavily in favor of the reforms of the progressive left. Well-intended, some needed, but a bit too far, and what we have as a result is this growing fear of crime, this growing actual amount of crime in almost every American city."

It's had the opposite effect from what was promised.

When asked by host George Stephanopoulos on ABC's "This Week" if Bratton's assessment was correct, Adams said he believes the former commissioner "is right."

Because he is right.

"Major mistakes made throughout the years that destroyed the trust that the police commissioner is talking about - we have to rebuild that trust," Adams said. "But we can't rebuild that trust by allowing those who are dangerous and that have - they have a repeated history of violence to continue to be on our streets."

Listen to the man, he speaks the truth.

Bad cops need to be rooted out. All cops need new and improved training. City crime centers need to be flooded with intervention programs, job skills programs, life lesson training...

But criminals need to be held accountable. More highly secure prisons need to be build for the worst in society, to remove the instigators of prison crime from the picture. More work needs to be done to prepare short timers with skills needed to reenter society, including job skills, life skill, conflict resolution, etc.

Then, provide them with better post-prison assistance, employment, social integration, staying out of trouble.

 

[Roadvirus]

The "Duh" heard 'round the world.

 

[jaypatriot]

Eric Adams Acknowledges Progressive Criminal Justice Reforms Contribute to Growing Crime Rates

Agreed. Every Democrat run city is facing the same problem.


It's had the opposite effect from what was promised.


Because he is right.

Listen to the man, he speaks the truth.

Bad cops need to be rooted out. All cops need new and improved training. City crime centers need to be flooded with intervention programs, job skills programs, life lesson training...

But criminals need to be held accountable. More highly secure prisons need to be build for the worst in society, to remove the instigators of prison crime from the picture. More work needs to be done to prepare short timers with skills needed to reenter society, including job skills, life skill, conflict resolution, etc.

Then, provide them with better post-prison assistance, employment, social integration, staying out of trouble.

What a major surprise coming from a former police office and police chief.
The idea that feckless Progressive DAs might be soft on crime because a) many are black and don't want to be viewed as hurting their brothers and/or b) if they convict more criminals the city might have to expand the capacity of local jails in the city.
Either way, for those pro-criminal DAs, it is a lose-lose situation for them.
Maybe the feckless DAs know the cops would bring in a flood of suspects if a city has to enforce the crime laws on the books. That would mean the DA work force would be sorely taxed to keep up with the number of arrests.

I would like to see the response of a former or current cop to my un-Progressive criticisms of city DAs who won't do their jobs.

 

[Antiwar]

Sounds like a load of neoliberal Democrat bull. Did he say anything specific or was it the usual bull generalizations? I read the Townhall article and it doesn't say much.

 

[TheParser]

Bad cops need to be rooted out. All cops need new and improved training. City crime centers need to be flooded with intervention programs, job skills programs, life lesson training...

But criminals need to be held accountable. More highly secure prisons need to be build for the worst in society, to remove the instigators of prison crime from the picture. More work needs to be done to prepare short timers with skills needed to reenter society, including job skills, life skill, conflict resolution, etc.

Then, provide them with better post-prison assistance, employment, social integration, staying out of trouble.

Sounds good!

But -- of course -- nothing will make a noticeable dent in violent crime.

The problem is intractable.

Our great-grandchildren will be living in a lawless society.

 

[jaypatriot]

Bad cops need to be rooted out. All cops need new and improved training. City crime centers need to be flooded with intervention programs, job skills programs, life lesson training...

Bad cops need to be identified, disciplined, tried if accused, drummed out of the force, or put in jail.

And it goes without saying that current crime laws need to be enforced by the DAs in major cities.

 

[Antiwar]

More prisons.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Sounds like a load of neoliberal Democrat bull. Did he say anything specific or was it the usual bull generalizations? I read the Townhall article and it doesn't say much.

He was certainly more specific than ^^^^ is.

 

[Antiwar]

He was certainly more specific than ^^^^ is.

Would you like to take his side? I'll discuss and debate this with you.

 

[jaypatriot]

He was certainly more specific than ^^^^ is.

Do we know who ^^^^ is? Is this code for someone?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Would you like to take his side? I'll discuss and debate this with you.

No you won’t. You will ‘paraphrase’ whatever I say, declare that to be what I was really saying and then ask more questions.

 

[Antiwar]

Bad cops need to be rooted out. All cops need new and improved training. City crime centers need to be flooded with intervention programs, job skills programs, life lesson training...

But criminals need to be held accountable. More highly secure prisons need to be build for the worst in society, to remove the instigators of prison crime from the picture. More work needs to be done to prepare short timers with skills needed to reenter society, including job skills, life skill, conflict resolution, etc.

Then, provide them with better post-prison assistance, employment, social integration, staying out of trouble.

Everything except the prison part sounds liberal to progressive.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Do we know who ^^^^ is? Is this code for someone?

^^^^ refers to the quoted content above.

 

[Schism]

Bad cops need to be identified, disciplined, tried if accused, drummed out of the force, or put in jail.

No argument here.

And it goes without saying that current crime laws need to be enforced by the DAs in major cities.

Apparently it DOES NOT go without saying, because many cities have voted in Soros-backed DA's who've decided not to prosecute, raise the threshold for felonies, supported no bail and early release.

Add to that the disrespect from mayors and city councils towards police over the 2 years of George Floyd riots and now you have a demoralized police force and emboldened criminal network.

 

[Peter King]

Eric Adams Acknowledges Progressive Criminal Justice Reforms Contribute to Growing Crime Rates

Agreed. Every Democrat run city is facing the same problem.


It's had the opposite effect from what was promised.


Because he is right.

Listen to the man, he speaks the truth.

Bad cops need to be rooted out. All cops need new and improved training. City crime centers need to be flooded with intervention programs, job skills programs, life lesson training...

But criminals need to be held accountable. More highly secure prisons need to be build for the worst in society, to remove the instigators of prison crime from the picture. More work needs to be done to prepare short timers with skills needed to reenter society, including job skills, life skill, conflict resolution, etc.

Then, provide them with better post-prison assistance, employment, social integration, staying out of trouble.

Well it starts with not locking up non violent offenders but have them do alternative punishment. Clear up trash from the walk ways, remove graffiti from buildings, subway cars, helping hands is community centers, help the elderly with shopping, etc. etc. etc. You know, do good rather than sit in jail become worse criminals.

Then stop locking up people in halls with dozens of beds, make jails what they were supposed to be, a place to lock up the worst people rather than creating a new prison gang system where gangs run the prison. Everybody is locked up in single cells, if they want more than an empty cell with a bed and toilet/shower they are going to have to work for it. Help in the prison with cleaning, preparing food, serving food, work in the library, do all the green maintenance. Hell even to have longer outside their cells should be dependent on good behavior and work ethic. Mandatory work skills training, if you do not participate you will be sitting in your cell 23 hours a day. Mandatory reading and writing skills, computer competency lessons, learning computer programming, etc. etc. etc. etc.

And it will not make jails a hotel. I don't know any hotel where you are told when you can eat, when lights go out, where you sleep and live in locked rooms where you are only allowed out if the door is unlocked. Hotels usually don't read your mail, do body cavity searches, can toss your room every day if they want to, never allow you out.

But what it will is stop making jails a breeding ground for bigger and more aggressive criminals. If you lock up people like animals IMO they will start acting like animals. Every prisoner that comes into jail not being member of a gang will likely end up in gangs as a need for protection. Keeping prisoners away from one another is always a good thing.

And you are not wrong about the police, but it starts with accountability and breaking the might of the police unions which are a huge stumbling block for any relevant progress. And create a national database for fired disgraced officers which all police forces have to look into to find out if the officer who wants to work for them is a good one or a bad one.

Training is very important too, especially if you start working with 2 officers per car. It is also good for officer safety. You are always with 2 officers on every call.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Well it starts with not locking up non violent offenders but have them do alternative punishment. Clear up trash from the walk ways, remove graffiti from buildings, subway cars, helping hands is community centers, help the elderly with shopping, etc. etc. etc. You know, do good rather than sit in jail become worse criminals.

Illegal possession of a gun is a non-violent offense as are DUI and non-payment of fines (or taxes). It’s fine to think that “community service” could serve as an alternative to incarceration, but that seems to amount to nothing more than slavery (forced labor for no pay) while reducing the hours of those now being paid to do such work. Perhaps we should start by offering ”community service” (as an option) in lieu of paying fines for traffic law violations - just to test that idea.

Then stop locking up people in halls with dozens of beds, make jails what they were supposed to be, a place to lock up the worst people rather than creating a new prison gang system where gangs run the prison. Everybody is locked up in single cells, if they want more than an empty cell with a bed and toilet/shower they are going to have to work for it. Help in the prison with cleaning, preparing food, serving food, work in the library, do all the green maintenance. Hell even to have longer outside their cells should be dependent on good behavior and work ethic. Mandatory work skills training, if you do not participate you will be sitting in your cell 23 hours a day. Mandatory reading and writing skills, computer competency lessons, learning computer programming, etc. etc. etc. etc.

Why should those convicted of criminal offenses get this additional free public eduction and job training? Maybe it would be a better idea to make that available to those who did not get convicted of crimes. We do not need to add more public reward for failure programs.

And it will not make jails a hotel. I don't know any hotel where you are told when you can eat, when lights go out, where you sleep and live in locked rooms where you are only allowed out if the door is unlocked. Hotels usually don't read your mail, do body cavity searches, can toss your room every day if they want to, never allow you out.

But what it will is stop making jails a breeding ground for bigger and more aggressive criminals. If you lock up people like animals IMO they will start acting like animals. Every prisoner that comes into jail not being member of a gang will likely end up in gangs as a need for protection. Keeping prisoners away from one another is always a good thing.

And you are not wrong about the police, but it starts with accountability and breaking the might of the police unions which are a huge stumbling block for any relevant progress. And create a national database for fired disgraced officers which all police forces have to look into to find out if the officer who wants to work for them is a good one or a bad one.

Training is very important too, especially if you start working with 2 officers per car. It is also good for officer safety. You are always with 2 officers on every call.

 

[Peter King]

Illegal possession of a gun is a non-violent offense as are DUI and non-payment of fines (or taxes). It’s fine to think that “community service” could serve as an alternative to incarceration, but that seems to amount to nothing more than slavery (forced labor for no pay) while reducing the hours of those now being paid to do such work. Perhaps we should start by offering ”community service” (as an option) in lieu of paying fines for traffic law violations - just to test that idea.

Other countries do community service in stead of jail time (for crimes in which you normally get 30 days or so jail time. And I think paying fines should be conditional on probation and or community servic

Why should those convicted of criminal offenses get this additional free public eduction and job training? Maybe it would be a better idea to make that available to those who did not get convicted of crimes. We do not need to add more public reward for failure programs.

I am not talking about people who are in jail for less than 1 year, but for those 5 years in jail or more should be forced to do these programs so that when they get released they have marketable skills for the community to make sure they get jobs and not fall back into a life of crime. What is a better use of money, get released prisoners in jobs, pay taxes, be productive members of society or just throw them out from jail after a 5 year stint with no skills, no ability to pay for his own way and go back into a life of crime without months of being released? Because locking up many millions of people is very expensive, it is better to keep people out of jail.

 

[jaypatriot]

Well it starts with not locking up non violent offenders but have them do alternative punishment. Clear up trash from the walk ways, remove graffiti from buildings, subway cars, helping hands is community centers, help the elderly with shopping, etc. etc. etc. You know, do good rather than sit in jail become worse criminals.

Then stop locking up people in halls with dozens of beds, make jails what they were supposed to be, a place to lock up the worst people rather than creating a new prison gang system where gangs run the prison. Everybody is locked up in single cells, if they want more than an empty cell with a bed and toilet/shower they are going to have to work for it. Help in the prison with cleaning, preparing food, serving food, work in the library, do all the green maintenance. Hell even to have longer outside their cells should be dependent on good behavior and work ethic. Mandatory work skills training, if you do not participate you will be sitting in your cell 23 hours a day. Mandatory reading and writing skills, computer competency lessons, learning computer programming, etc. etc. etc. etc.

And it will not make jails a hotel. I don't know any hotel where you are told when you can eat, when lights go out, where you sleep and live in locked rooms where you are only allowed out if the door is unlocked. Hotels usually don't read your mail, do body cavity searches, can toss your room every day if they want to, never allow you out.

But what it will is stop making jails a breeding ground for bigger and more aggressive criminals. If you lock up people like animals IMO they will start acting like animals. Every prisoner that comes into jail not being member of a gang will likely end up in gangs as a need for protection. Keeping prisoners away from one another is always a good thing.

And you are not wrong about the police, but it starts with accountability and breaking the might of the police unions which are a huge stumbling block for any relevant progress. And create a national database for fired disgraced officers which all police forces have to look into to find out if the officer who wants to work for them is a good one or a bad one.

Training is very important too, especially if you start working with 2 officers per car. It is also good for officer safety. You are always with 2 officers on every call.

Let's give every prisoner a single cell with cable TV and Internet access so they won't get bored.
Does that sound like punishment?
The idea is not to rehabilitate repeat criminals. It is to keep them off the streets as long as possible.

So you think giving prisoners single is going to keep them from wanting to join a gang for protection against other gangs.
Are you a prison reformer by trade?

 

[Peter King]

Let's give every prisoner a single cell with cable TV and Internet access so they won't get bored.
Does that sound like punishment?
The idea is not to rehabilitate repeat criminals. It is to keep them off the streets as long as possible.

So you think giving prisoners single is going to keep them from wanting to join a gang for protection against other gangs.
Are you a prison reformer by trade?

You do know that the locking up is the punishment? Right? The total lack of freedom and mobility? The fact that you cannot eat without permission, etc. etc. etc.

This is a Dutch cell

It is a small area to spend 20 to 23 hours a day in. It has a closet, a shower and toilet, a microwave (to heat up the meals) and not much more. But guess what, you know how many riots we have in our jails? Virtually NONE.

We have so much room in our prisons that we have closed down prisons and are renting out prisons to Belgian prisoners and Norwegian prisoners. That much room do we have. And only 1 in 4 re-offend within 2 years and most of them are pickpockets/shoplifters (about 42%), and violent offenses are 17% of all re-offenders crimes. But re-offending also is crimes for which just a ticket has been issued.

I do not have an issue if prisoners work for things like a tiny television and computers to learn on (without internet connection).

If someone spends the rest of his life in jail a cell like this will keep them less of a danger. Prisoners who are jailed by the dozens are more likely to turn on prisoner officers than people who are jailed by themselves. Restoring security is also much easier. But that is my opinion.

 

[jaypatriot]

You do know that the locking up is the punishment? Right? The total lack of freedom and mobility? The fact that you cannot eat without permission, etc. etc. etc.

This is a Dutch cell

It is a small area to spend 20 to 23 hours a day in. It has a closet, a shower and toilet, a microwave (to heat up the meals) and not much more. But guess what, you know how many riots we have in our jails? Virtually NONE.

We have so much room in our prisons that we have closed down prisons and are renting out prisons to Belgian prisoners and Norwegian prisoners. That much room do we have. And only 1 in 4 re-offend within 2 years and most of them are pickpockets/shoplifters (about 42%), and violent offenses are 17% of all re-offenders crimes. But re-offending also is crimes for which just a ticket has been issued.

I do not have an issue if prisoners work for things like a tiny television and computers to learn on (without internet connection).

If someone spends the rest of his life in jail a cell like this will keep them less of a danger. Prisoners who are jailed by the dozens are more likely to turn on prisoner officers than people who are jailed by themselves. Restoring security is also much easier. But that is my opinion.

 

[jaypatriot]

Good for the Dutch. They're basically a multicultural society with minimal civil strife.

Not a wonderful "melting pot" like ours with frequent mass shooting and a lot of racial animus.

I hope we are continuing to study such societies that have remarkably low incarceration rates.

• These measures all add up to an unbelievably low incarceration rate: Although the Netherlands has a population of 17 million, only 11,600 people are locked up. That's a rate of 69 incarcerations per 100,000 people. The US, meanwhile, has a rate of 716 per 100,000 — the highest in the world.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dutch-prisons-are-closing-because-the-country-is-so-safe-a7765521.html
Dutch prisons are closing because the country is so safe ...

 

[Peter King]

Good for the Dutch. They're basically a multicultural society with minimal civil strife.

Not a wonderful "melting pot" like ours with frequent mass shooting and a lot of racial animus.

I hope we are continuing to study such societies that have remarkably low incarceration rates.

Well, we have our civil strives, but as we have no wild gun culture as the US has mass shootings are not really a thing here. But that is the choice the founding fathers have made and supreme court justices have decided to view as wide and inclusive as possible. To allow just about every weapon to hit the streets. That is why the US has mass shootings, because people with unstable personalities or criminal tendencies can lay their hands on the most gruesome war weapons with very little limitations.

• These measures all add up to an unbelievably low incarceration rate: Although the Netherlands has a population of 17 million, only 11,600 people are locked up. That's a rate of 69 incarcerations per 100,000 people. The US, meanwhile, has a rate of 716 per 100,000 — the highest in the world.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dutch-prisons-are-closing-because-the-country-is-so-safe-a7765521.html
Dutch prisons are closing because the country is so safe ...

The issue is that small prison sentences almost always get changed to work punishments. Anything under 6 months typically is changed to what we call "taakstraf" aka community service. Usually 6 months prison sentence is replaced by 240 hours of community service. Usually you work in the field your crimes has connections with. Like someone who has sprayed graffiti may get 80 hours of removing graffiti. If you were caught fly tipping/dumping trash you may get 240 hours of cleaning up garbage along the roadside, etc. etc. etc.

With no-one going to jail under 6 months and not the ridiculous system of arresting people at the roadside or having people sit in jail until they can post bail for minor crimes, you will have a lot less officers needed for storing people like that/imprisoning people like that. Those officers can be used better on the street for example.

 

[jaypatriot]

Well, we have our civil strives, but as we have no wild gun culture as the US has mass shootings are not really a thing here. But that is the choice the founding fathers have made and supreme court justices have decided to view as wide and inclusive as possible. To allow just about every weapon to hit the streets. That is why the US has mass shootings, because people with unstable personalities or criminal tendencies can lay their hands on the most gruesome war weapons with very little limitations.

The issue is that small prison sentences almost always get changed to work punishments. Anything under 6 months typically is changed to what we call "taakstraf" aka community service. Usually 6 months prison sentence is replaced by 240 hours of community service. Usually you work in the field your crimes has connections with. Like someone who has sprayed graffiti may get 80 hours of removing graffiti. If you were caught fly tipping/dumping trash you may get 240 hours of cleaning up garbage along the roadside, etc. etc. etc.

With no-one going to jail under 6 months and not the ridiculous system of arresting people at the roadside or having people sit in jail until they can post bail for minor crimes, you will have a lot less officers needed for storing people like that/imprisoning people like that. Those officers can be used better on the street for example.

Peter,
Yours sounds like an idyllic society that the US will never see.
In two weeks we'll be landing in your beautiful country to see the sights and sample tasty delights. SO I have good feelings about the Netherlands.

Always good to have the perspective of someone outside our country to see what we could be. But it is impractical to compare a country with 330 million people and over 300 millions guns to a country with 17 million and little crime.
Now there are more and more 'ghost gun' manufacturers ready to sell to the lawless public.

 

[Peter King]

Peter,
Yours sounds like an idyllic society that the US will never see.
In two weeks we'll be landing in your beautiful country to see the sights and sample tasty delights. SO I have good feelings about the Netherlands.

Always good to have the perspective of someone outside our country to see what we could be. But it is impractical to compare a country with 330 million people and over 300 millions guns to a country with 17 million and little crime.
Now there are more and more 'ghost gun' manufacturers ready to sell to the lawless public.

In the main cities you still have to watch out for pick pockets, if you want to do pot (don't know why anybody would want to, but that is me, do you know that in our county only 5.4% of Dutch people annually use cannabis? compared to almost 14% in the US) you are only allowed to smoke it in the coffeeshops, if you walk around with it, you will get it impounded and if it is a small amount you can get away without even a ticket (just a warning). If you want to stay in Amsterdam, you should get a GVB day card or multiple day card, this will allow you to travel through the city as much as you want where ever you want to go. With subway, trams and bus travel (including the night bus). If you walk in the city, look out for cyclists, they are a law upon themselves.

Don't eat in restaurants in the city center shopping areas. I used to (a long time ago when I lived close to Amsterdam) would go to the Nieuwezijds Voorburgwal (a street behind the red light district) and there used to be dozens of restaurants there, a taste for everyone, just check online how the quality is (and the pricing).

And idyllic might be going a bit too far because no country is perfect, even though the children growing up in the Netherlands are the happiest in the world.

But there are sketchy neighborhoods in the Netherlands too, with higher crime figures and where drug criminality is higher than other areas.

There are some weird and wonderful hotels in the Netherlands, just look at this one

But our police is usually nothing like the American police, look at this video where 2 officers stop a car who has been driving around in Utrecht for a long time just driving in circles.

And yes, it is subtitled and after the check for the license they ask the officers if they can direct them to the hookers in Utrecht (there was a red light district there at the time of this video, nine years ago) and the officers direct them to the easiest way to get to the prostitutes.



But unlike the US police you always have to identify if a police officer asks for your ID card. Because it is mandatory to walk around with an ID card (you can get fined for it).

Checks for DUI is also different, in the Netherlands you are NEVER asked to do the party tricks the US police uses, you get a road side breath test in which you blow, if the light goes red you will be transported to the police bureau for a breath test on a forensic breath analyzer which you have to blow in twice, one time for a first indication and a second test about 20 minutes later.

Back to the subject, there is also no refusal to sign for a ticket problems in the Netherlands which might lead to an arrest. You don't have to sign a ticket, usually you don't even get a ticket anymore, that comes in the mail about 6 weeks later. Then you can choose to pay it or appeal it in front of a judge.

FYI, this is what a Dutch youtuber thought was a shocking arrest of a black individual

 

[Roadvirus]

There are some weird and wonderful hotels in the Netherlands, just look at this one

For some reason, i keep thinking of the Winchester Mansion...