John Liberty
Banned
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2013
- Messages
- 275
- Reaction score
- 72
- Location
- Ask the NSA
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Libertarian
"Enough of the finger pointing" and then proceeds to point finger. lol
Enough with the finger pointing guys. The truth is life under the Obama administration has been almost identical to life under the Bush administration with the slight difference that we actually have a better idea of what's going on(thanks to people like Manning and Snowden).
I find it actually slightly amusing that Liberals who were up in arms about drone strikes during the Bush presidency are now saying things like "Obama is doing it to protect our freedoms".
On the flip side when Republicans that are screaming for Obama's head about these drone strikes and the NDAA are confronted about Bush doing similar things during his presidency, they lower their head and mumble something about Bush using fewer drone strikes than Obama.
I think that things in this country are not going to get any better until we all stop pointing fingers at the other parties. There are good people in the Republican party(i.e. Rand Paul) and bad people in the Republican party(i.e. John McCain). There are also good people in the Democratic party(i.e. Rep Timothy J. Penny) and bad people in the Democratic party (i.e. President Obama). Party doesn't make the man, policy does. Until people start getting that concept, things in this country are not going to get any better.
Now I realize that calling both parties out on their crap is not going to make me a very popular person, I am expecting the rage comments to begin brewing almost as soon as I post this...but it is something that needs to be said.
Am I sitting here blaming a particular political party? No, I'm not. I'm blaming both of them
Enough with the finger pointing guys. The truth is life under the Obama administration has been almost identical to life under the Bush administration with the slight difference that we actually have a better idea of what's going on(thanks to people like Manning and Snowden).
I find it actually slightly amusing that Liberals who were up in arms about drone strikes during the Bush presidency are now saying things like "Obama is doing it to protect our freedoms".
On the flip side when Republicans that are screaming for Obama's head about these drone strikes and the NDAA are confronted about Bush doing similar things during his presidency, they lower their head and mumble something about Bush using fewer drone strikes than Obama.
I think that things in this country are not going to get any better until we all stop pointing fingers at the other parties. There are good people in the Republican party(i.e. Rand Paul) and bad people in the Republican party(i.e. John McCain). There are also good people in the Democratic party(i.e. Rep Timothy J. Penny) and bad people in the Democratic party (i.e. President Obama). Party doesn't make the man, policy does. Until people start getting that concept, things in this country are not going to get any better.
Now I realize that calling both parties out on their crap is not going to make me a very popular person, I am expecting the rage comments to begin brewing almost as soon as I post this...but it is something that needs to be said.
I'm having some difficulty with this portion of your post. I mostly agree with you but please explain your choice of these comparisons. Like why are your good choices good and you bad choices bad?
There are good people in the Republican party(i.e. Rand Paul) and bad people in the Republican party(i.e. John McCain). There are also good people in the Democratic party(i.e. Rep Timothy J. Penny) and bad people in the Democratic party (i.e. President Obama).
Just want to make sure that your post isn't partisan before I invest more thought into this.
I participate in a liberal forum. I can tell you that liberals are very angry about the drone strikes...just the opposite of what you say. And Republicans, as they were under Bush, are in favor of them. It's libertarian-Republicans like Rand Paul who are upset about drone strikes. And he would be under Bush, too, I believe.
Rand Paul is not a good person. He is egocentric, unempathetic, cares not for others' freedoms just his own, and believes in the motto "you're on your own...what if you get cancer? That's not my problem." Rational, maybe, to a libertarian. But that makes him not what is generally known as a good person.
President Obama's intentions are good. I believe he truly wants to make the economy better, make life better for all Americans, considers himself President of all America's citizens...and in fact he's done some very good things. He has tackled unpopular issues that other Presidents have failed in tackling or were afraid to. He is working toward a stronger middle class....whether he's succeeding or not is another matter. But he is a good person who is trying to make a stronger middle class...the class that is disappearing in this country. If someone doesn't work to protect the middle class, we'll end up being like Mexico or India...democracies with almost no middle class.
Enough with the finger pointing guys. The truth is life under the Obama administration has been almost identical to life under the Bush administration with the slight difference that we actually have a better idea of what's going on(thanks to people like Manning and Snowden).
I find it actually slightly amusing that Liberals who were up in arms about drone strikes during the Bush presidency are now saying things like "Obama is doing it to protect our freedoms".
On the flip side when Republicans that are screaming for Obama's head about these drone strikes and the NDAA are confronted about Bush doing similar things during his presidency, they lower their head and mumble something about Bush using fewer drone strikes than Obama.
I think that things in this country are not going to get any better until we all stop pointing fingers at the other parties. There are good people in the Republican party(i.e. Rand Paul) and bad people in the Republican party(i.e. John McCain). There are also good people in the Democratic party(i.e. Rep Timothy J. Penny) and bad people in the Democratic party (i.e. President Obama). Party doesn't make the man, policy does. Until people start getting that concept, things in this country are not going to get any better.
Now I realize that calling both parties out on their crap is not going to make me a very popular person, I am expecting the rage comments to begin brewing almost as soon as I post this...but it is something that needs to be said.
Huh?
Listen, I wasn't helping to support two friends when Bush was in office. What in The Realms Above, In the Earth About Us, or The Principalities Below do you mean "life under the Obama administration has been almost identical to life under the Bush administration?"
I mean what I said. Obama and Bush have passed similar laws, declared similar wars and have similar economic beliefs...neither made any move to lower the national debt and they both passed some of the most unconstitutional laws ever written(Bush-Patriot Act, Obama-NDAA). The only difference is we have a better idea of what is going on(again, thanks to Snowden and Manning), and the situation has worsened naturally over time. You cannot argue that Bush was a better president than Obama...you just can't.
I hear that fire and ice are identical, too. I'm sorry you're too far detached from Reality for me to deal with right now.
Well first off the candidates I stated as good are consistent, support paying off the debt and support the lowering the deficit. The ones I stated as bad support overspending, the unconstitutional wars in the middle east, are not consistent with their overall message and are generally just not good candidates.
Well, first of all you generalized and assumed that liberals approve of the drone strikes now that Obama is in office and that is false. And then you generalized and assumed that Republicans don't approve of the drone strikes now that Obama is in office and that is false. And then you made a point of pointing a finger at people on both sides as if everyone is supposed to agree with your opinion of who is good and bad. And then you act like you're above finger pointing after you just got through finger pointing.Am I sitting here blaming a particular political party? No, I'm not. I'm blaming both of them
dude I'll take those Itsy Bitsy Teeny Tiny slight differences anyday Gimme dat buck fidy gasoline and 5.5% unemployment and no Moosie Bro-hood overrunning four mid-east countries and how 'bout that 6 trillion bucks Obama has blown? Oh and take that socialised healthcare n shove it and well you get the picture but lil buddy wait until you see what's coming up next! Yer really gonna luv it. And thar aint' no body gonna save us left right front or center I'ts coming and there's nothing to stop it.life under the Obama administration has been almost identical to life under the Bush administration
1). How does Rand Paul not care about anyone else's freedoms but his own? He's a government official, if that were the case he'd be like every other neo-conservative Republican in that building.
2). No, I know several Liberals that support the drone strikes under Obama.
Enough with the finger pointing guys. The truth is life under the Obama administration has been almost identical to life under the Bush administration with the slight difference that we actually have a better idea of what's going on(thanks to people like Manning and Snowden).
I find it actually slightly amusing that Liberals who were up in arms about drone strikes during the Bush presidency are now saying things like "Obama is doing it to protect our freedoms".
On the flip side when Republicans that are screaming for Obama's head about these drone strikes and the NDAA are confronted about Bush doing similar things during his presidency, they lower their head and mumble something about Bush using fewer drone strikes than Obama.
I think that things in this country are not going to get any better until we all stop pointing fingers at the other parties. There are good people in the Republican party(i.e. Rand Paul) and bad people in the Republican party(i.e. John McCain). There are also good people in the Democratic party(i.e. Rep Timothy J. Penny) and bad people in the Democratic party (i.e. President Obama). Party doesn't make the man, policy does. Until people start getting that concept, things in this country are not going to get any better.
Now I realize that calling both parties out on their crap is not going to make me a very popular person, I am expecting the rage comments to begin brewing almost as soon as I post this...but it is something that needs to be said.
Am I sitting here blaming a particular political party? No, I'm not. I'm blaming both of them
Let me try to illustrate why people like Rand Paul do not stand for freedom. I've told this story before, but here it goes: my ancestors were Jewish. They lived in St. Paul, which was extremely antisemitic many many years ago. One of my father's relatives was getting old and got really sick. It turned out he had appendicitis and immediately needed his appendix removed. He went to the nearest hospital, which was by far the best hospital, and they refused to treat him because he was Jewish. In the hospital's defense (if you can phrase it that way) the whole family knew their policy but thought he might be treated there since he would likely die otherwise. There was only one hospital he could make it to in time, and as the story may have gone, the surgeon was drunk and dropped a rusty scalpel into his body during the operation. As the story definitely did go, he died from a severe infection due to unclean procedures at the substandard hospital.
What I'm trying to illustrate is the ridiculous notion embraced by libertarians that being free means the government not getting in the way of our lives. Well, for my ancestors, freedom meant the opposite - it meant regulation, because the community actually supported the hospital which turned away individuals simply for being Jewish. Look at all the cameras on the sidewalks that you walk on. Does the government own them? No, businesses own them. I'm not saying I'm against security cameras, I'm merely presenting a symbol of intrusion and it's coming from businesses, not the government. In order for us to be free, regulation is necessary, and almost everybody agrees on that, but people like Rand Paul and many other libertarians have pushed the line way too far in the direction of big business. Isn't it a weird coincidence that big business pays for their election campaigns and commercials?
Now we hear about tort reform. Wouldn't that be nice if not only my ancestor had died in that filthy hospital but his family was also told they couldn't sue because it would be a frivolous lawsuit? There's enough money from the private sector to win the PR campaign, but that's what tort reform is - preventing people from having the right to collect damages when they are harmed by a doctor or medical establishment.
I guess we all have different ideas of what freedom is. It sounds like you read a lot of "alternative media." Be wary is all I have to say. They don't fact check and often don't use primary sources. As for the several liberals comment, there's only 120 million or so liberals in the US, so several is a pretty big percentage of that I suppose.
Enough with the finger pointing guys. The truth is life under the Obama administration has been almost identical to life under the Bush administration with the slight difference that we actually have a better idea of what's going on(thanks to people like Manning and Snowden).
I find it actually slightly amusing that Liberals who were up in arms about drone strikes during the Bush presidency are now saying things like "Obama is doing it to protect our freedoms".
On the flip side when Republicans that are screaming for Obama's head about these drone strikes and the NDAA are confronted about Bush doing similar things during his presidency, they lower their head and mumble something about Bush using fewer drone strikes than Obama.
I think that things in this country are not going to get any better until we all stop pointing fingers at the other parties. There are good people in the Republican party(i.e. Rand Paul) and bad people in the Republican party(i.e. John McCain). There are also good people in the Democratic party(i.e. Rep Timothy J. Penny) and bad people in the Democratic party (i.e. President Obama). Party doesn't make the man, policy does. Until people start getting that concept, things in this country are not going to get any better.
Now I realize that calling both parties out on their crap is not going to make me a very popular person, I am expecting the rage comments to begin brewing almost as soon as I post this...but it is something that needs to be said.
I participate in a liberal forum. I can tell you that liberals are very angry about the drone strikes...just the opposite of what you say. And Republicans, as they were under Bush, are in favor of them. It's libertarian-Republicans like Rand Paul who are upset about drone strikes. And he would be under Bush, too, I believe.
Rand Paul is not a good person. He is egocentric, unempathetic, cares not for others' freedoms just his own, and believes in the motto "you're on your own...what if you get cancer? That's not my problem." Rational, maybe, to a libertarian. But that makes him not what is generally known as a good person.
President Obama's intentions are good. I believe he truly wants to make the economy better, make life better for all Americans, considers himself President of all America's citizens...and in fact he's done some very good things. He has tackled unpopular issues that other Presidents have failed in tackling or were afraid to. He is working toward a stronger middle class....whether he's succeeding or not is another matter. But he is a good person who is trying to make a stronger middle class...the class that is disappearing in this country. If someone doesn't work to protect the middle class, we'll end up being like Mexico or India...democracies with almost no middle class.
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