MSR
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Thought it would be interesting to talk about the returns.
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Election Results - Comments (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter MSR
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MSR
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7:38am
FOX and NBC have called Ohio for Bush with a lead of 2.1%, however CBS, ABC and CNN say that it is too close to call. But at the same time CBS, ABC and CNN have all called Nevada where the vote is much closer. I wonder why?
I think it is clear that they do not want to put pressure on Kerry to give up the fight. Without there being doubt in Ohio Kerry has no logical reason to challenge the numbers. As it is Nevada, New Mexico, Iowa all seem to be going Bush. It is hard to understand what the Kerry folks are thinking. Surely the Dems don't want to file law suites and holdup the result and then still end up on the losing side. It is hard to see what their justification would be for a challenge.
FOX and NBC have called Ohio for Bush with a lead of 2.1%, however CBS, ABC and CNN say that it is too close to call. But at the same time CBS, ABC and CNN have all called Nevada where the vote is much closer. I wonder why?
I think it is clear that they do not want to put pressure on Kerry to give up the fight. Without there being doubt in Ohio Kerry has no logical reason to challenge the numbers. As it is Nevada, New Mexico, Iowa all seem to be going Bush. It is hard to understand what the Kerry folks are thinking. Surely the Dems don't want to file law suites and holdup the result and then still end up on the losing side. It is hard to see what their justification would be for a challenge.
LiberalFINGER
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I feel our country needs to have tighter voting deadlines.
There is talk about votes still not arriving in Iowa. Let's finish up this election as is and establish rules to allow us to complete our election by Nov. 2 next time.
There is talk about votes still not arriving in Iowa. Let's finish up this election as is and establish rules to allow us to complete our election by Nov. 2 next time.
KD5DBL
Member
Well... I'm still having small flashbacks to four years ago... at least Florida got their act together... maybe Ohio will in 2008.
Was anyone else surprised to hear that you didn't need to show proof of identity in Ohio to vote?
I'm going to try and be patient and just wait for the process to work itself out.
Was anyone else surprised to hear that you didn't need to show proof of identity in Ohio to vote?
I'm going to try and be patient and just wait for the process to work itself out.
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Agreed!
As E.D. Hill said on FOX and FRIENDS this morning... it's "Deja Votes".
Below are copy/pasted results from CNN.
New Mexico
I was watching this state last night, kinda partial to it - grew up there - it looks like Bush has a win. The problem? There are LESS votes this year than in 2000 which is inconcievable as every state in the nation but this one had increased in voter turn out.
Bush 335,311 50%0
Kerry323,691 49%0
Was 2000 a miscount for New Mexico?
---------------
Thune 197,814 51%
Daschle 193,279 49%
This is still being contested by Daschle.
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As E.D. Hill said on FOX and FRIENDS this morning... it's "Deja Votes".
Below are copy/pasted results from CNN.
New Mexico
I was watching this state last night, kinda partial to it - grew up there - it looks like Bush has a win. The problem? There are LESS votes this year than in 2000 which is inconcievable as every state in the nation but this one had increased in voter turn out.
Bush 335,311 50%0
Kerry323,691 49%0
Was 2000 a miscount for New Mexico?
---------------
Thune 197,814 51%
Daschle 193,279 49%
This is still being contested by Daschle.
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MSR
Member
I think the nation should use the Florida model... we need to go with the computerized ballot and we need to hold the election for two weeks ending on election day.
They need to revamp how absentee votes are done. If they went electronic Americans world-wide could go to Embassies and Military installations and vote using the electronic tablet and it could be counted instantly and reported.
We need to step into the 22nd Century.
The Federal government needs to pass laws that force states to verify identity and citizenship.
They need to revamp how absentee votes are done. If they went electronic Americans world-wide could go to Embassies and Military installations and vote using the electronic tablet and it could be counted instantly and reported.
We need to step into the 22nd Century.
The Federal government needs to pass laws that force states to verify identity and citizenship.
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Adding to that... verification of living or non-living. Sad, but there have been many many reports of deceased folks voting.
Purhaps, this is why New Mexico hasn't been callled yet, they stepped into the new age, The lack of vote counts could prove an irresponsibility in 2000. Just a thought.
Purhaps, this is why New Mexico hasn't been callled yet, they stepped into the new age, The lack of vote counts could prove an irresponsibility in 2000. Just a thought.
MSR
Member
People have to prove they are who they say they are at the poll... not sure how to do that.
The problem is that many Dems think that Constitutional rights belong to all people on American soil not just Citizens... this includes voting. My guess is that referendums like the gay marriage stuff this election cycle will have to be done to force the politicians to get on board with tightening this process.
The problem is that many Dems think that Constitutional rights belong to all people on American soil not just Citizens... this includes voting. My guess is that referendums like the gay marriage stuff this election cycle will have to be done to force the politicians to get on board with tightening this process.
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CNN & CBS say Ohio is "Too close to call".
FOXNEWS and NBC say Ohio is Bush.
99% reporting in New Mexico, but no station or AP news is calling the state.
There must be a reason we do not know about yet.
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Use the strip on the back on the DL to reduce human error. It instantly tells the polling station if a person has already voted. Use the picture to prove who you are.
Everyone has to get a new DL within 30 days of moving. Folks that recently moved from another state would already be set.
FOXNEWS and NBC say Ohio is Bush.
99% reporting in New Mexico, but no station or AP news is calling the state.
There must be a reason we do not know about yet.
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Stateside database. Use the Drivers License database - do not allow illegals to get them - and then your set. Remember the motor voter bill?
Use the strip on the back on the DL to reduce human error. It instantly tells the polling station if a person has already voted. Use the picture to prove who you are.
Everyone has to get a new DL within 30 days of moving. Folks that recently moved from another state would already be set.
MSR
Member
Stocks Skyrocket as Wall Street Welcomes Bush Victory
Wednesday, November 03, 2004
NEW YORK — Stocks soared Wednesday as investors welcomed news that Sen. John Kerry had called President Bush to concede the 2004 race for the White House.
In mid-afternoon trading Wednesday, the blue-chip Dow Jones industrial average (search) was up 122 points at 10,157 while the technology-packed Nasdaq Composite Index (search) was up 21 points at 2,006. The broader Standard & Poor's 500 Index (search) was up 14 points at 1,144.
Wall Street welcomed Bush's victory as he is seen as more pro-business than Democratic challenger Sen. John Kerry (search). Investors seemed reassured by the prospect of continuity offered by another four-year Bush term.
"People know Bush's policies. They know the current levels of taxation. Strictly from a pro-business standpoint, everyone thought that if Bush won, the market would react this way," said Peter Boockvar, equity strategist at Miller Tabak & Co.
MSR
Member
Quote: (Tim Russert MSNBC)
"..they (the democrats) were outgunned by the rural voters and evangelical Christians and the so-called “security moms” or “moral moms”. Every one of these states that had a resolution or amendment to ban gay marriage, it passed two and three to one. People had an agenda. They put their moral values ahead of some of their economic interests.
The Democrats thought they had a war, they thought they had a weak economy and they were – for the first time in my lifetime, dollar-for-dollar – able to match spending.
They couldn’t get it done."
"..they (the democrats) were outgunned by the rural voters and evangelical Christians and the so-called “security moms” or “moral moms”. Every one of these states that had a resolution or amendment to ban gay marriage, it passed two and three to one. People had an agenda. They put their moral values ahead of some of their economic interests.
The Democrats thought they had a war, they thought they had a weak economy and they were – for the first time in my lifetime, dollar-for-dollar – able to match spending.
They couldn’t get it done."
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LiberalFINGER
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Now that I've had time to digest everything. . .
I'm very pleased at the turn-out. It's good to see that Generation Y appears to be a bit more active than X was.
It would appear that this year, rock the vote was the best thing to happen to the Republicans.
One good thing we can say about Kerry. . . His momma raised him better than Gore's.
And I still think that the American Soldier gets screwed at the poles. We really need a better system for counting soldiers over seas.
I'm very pleased at the turn-out. It's good to see that Generation Y appears to be a bit more active than X was.
It would appear that this year, rock the vote was the best thing to happen to the Republicans.
One good thing we can say about Kerry. . . His momma raised him better than Gore's.
And I still think that the American Soldier gets screwed at the poles. We really need a better system for counting soldiers over seas.
Pacridge
DP Veteran
If these things happend in a third world nation wouldn't we Americans think something funny was taking place?
In this last election, 29 precincts in Cuyahoga County, Ohio, reported votes cast IN EXCESS of the number of registered voters - at least 93,136 extra votes total. And the numbers are right there on the official Cuyahoga County Board of Elections website:
Bay Village - 13,710 registered voters / 18,663 ballots cast
Beachwood - 9,943 registered voters / 13,939 ballots cast
Bedford - 9,942 registered voters / 14,465 ballots cast
Bedford Heights - 8,142 registered voters / 13,512 ballots cast
Brooklyn - 8,016 registered voters / 12,303 ballots cast
Brooklyn Heights - 1,144 registered voters / 1,869 ballots cast
Chagrin Falls Village - 3,557 registered voters / 4,860 ballots cast
Cuyahoga Heights - 570 registered voters / 1,382 ballots cast
Fairview Park - 13,342 registered voters / 18,472 ballots cast
Highland Hills Village - 760 registered voters / 8,822 ballots cast
Independence - 5,735 registered voters / 6,226 ballots cast
Mayfield Village - 2,764 registered voters / 3,145 ballots cast
Middleburg Heights - 12,173 registered voters / 14,854 ballots cast
Moreland Hills Village - 2,990 registered voters / 4,616 ballots cast
North Olmstead - 25,794 registered voters / 25,887 ballots cast
Olmstead Falls - 6,538 registered voters / 7,328 ballots cast
Pepper Pike - 5,131 registered voters / 6,479 ballots cast
Rocky River - 16,600 registered voters / 20,070 ballots cast
Solon (WD6) - 2,292 registered voters / 4,300 ballots cast
South Euclid - 16,902 registered voters / 16,917 ballots cast
Strongsville (WD3) - 7,806 registered voters / 12,108 ballots cast
University Heights - 10,072 registered voters / 11,982 ballots cast
Valley View Village - 1,787 registered voters / 3,409 ballots cast
Warrensville Heights - 10,562 registered voters / 15,039 ballots cast
Woodmere Village - 558 registered voters / 8,854 ballots cast
Bedford (CSD) - 22,777 registered voters / 27,856 ballots cast
Independence (LSD) - 5,735 registered voters / 6,226 ballots cast
Orange (CSD) - 11,640 registered voters / 22,931 ballots cast
Warrensville (CSD) - 12,218 registered voters / 15,822 ballots cast
Now here's an article from the Cleveland Plain Dealer:
Ohio Voters Tell of Election Day Troubles at Hearing
By Reginald Fields
The Cleveland Plain Dealer
Sunday 14 November 2004
Tales of waiting more than five hours to vote, voter intimidation, under-trained polling-station workers and too few or broken voting machines largely in urban or heavily minority areas were retold Saturday at a public hearing organized by voter-rights groups.
For three hours, burdened voters, one after another, offered sworn testimony about Election Day voter suppression and irregularities that they believe are threatening democracy.
The hearing, sponsored by the Election Protection Coalition, was to collect testimony of voting troubles that might be used to seek legislative changes to Ohio's election process.
The organizers chose Ohio because it was a swing state in the presidential election as well as the site of numerous claims of election fraud and voter disenfranchisement.
"I think a lot of us had a sense that something had deeply went wrong on Nov. 2 and it had to do with the election process and procedures in place that were unacceptable," said Amy Kaplan, one of the hearing's coordinators.
Kaplan said the hearing gave everyday citizens a chance to have their concerns placed into public record.
Both a written and video report on the hearing will be provided to anyone who wants a copy, especially state lawmakers who are considering mandating Election Day changes, Kaplan said.
Many of the voters who testified were clearly Democrats who wonder if their losing presidential candidate, Sen. John Kerry, was able to draw all the votes that were intended for him.
"I call on Sen. Kerry to un-concede until there is a full count of the votes," said Werner Lange of Trumbull County, who claimed that polling places in his Northeast Ohio neighborhood had half the number of voting machines that were needed.
"This caused a bottleneck at polling stations, and many people left without voting," he said.
Others said they were testifying not on political grounds but out of concern for a suspicious election system that should be above reproach.
Harvey Wasserman of Bexley said he tried to vote absentee with the same home address he has used for 18 years but was told he couldn't because his absentee application had the wrong address.
"But the notice telling me I had the wrong address arrived at the right address," he said. "I wonder, how many of these absentee ballots were rejected for no good reason?
"My concern is not out of the outcome of the election," Wasserman said, "but that this could go on and an election could be stolen. And we simply can't have that in a democracy."
I honestly don't know what this all means. Is this a sign the GOP, who runs the elections in Ohio, stacked the deck against the Dems? Or is it merely the Dems now crying foul after loosing fair and square? I don't know. I also don't know how anyone will ever know. Unless you're part of the "machine" on either side chances are you're not going to know the the truth about anything. Today everything is put in the "spin cycle" before it ends up for general consumtion. What it says to me is that we NEED a standardized federal election process the ensures that all sides are receive equal, fair treatment. Partisan ran election boards at a minimum create an appearance of fraud. But seriously if you read reports like this regarding an election that had taken place in say Columbia or Boliva wouldn't you just assume the election was fixed?
In this last election, 29 precincts in Cuyahoga County, Ohio, reported votes cast IN EXCESS of the number of registered voters - at least 93,136 extra votes total. And the numbers are right there on the official Cuyahoga County Board of Elections website:
Bay Village - 13,710 registered voters / 18,663 ballots cast
Beachwood - 9,943 registered voters / 13,939 ballots cast
Bedford - 9,942 registered voters / 14,465 ballots cast
Bedford Heights - 8,142 registered voters / 13,512 ballots cast
Brooklyn - 8,016 registered voters / 12,303 ballots cast
Brooklyn Heights - 1,144 registered voters / 1,869 ballots cast
Chagrin Falls Village - 3,557 registered voters / 4,860 ballots cast
Cuyahoga Heights - 570 registered voters / 1,382 ballots cast
Fairview Park - 13,342 registered voters / 18,472 ballots cast
Highland Hills Village - 760 registered voters / 8,822 ballots cast
Independence - 5,735 registered voters / 6,226 ballots cast
Mayfield Village - 2,764 registered voters / 3,145 ballots cast
Middleburg Heights - 12,173 registered voters / 14,854 ballots cast
Moreland Hills Village - 2,990 registered voters / 4,616 ballots cast
North Olmstead - 25,794 registered voters / 25,887 ballots cast
Olmstead Falls - 6,538 registered voters / 7,328 ballots cast
Pepper Pike - 5,131 registered voters / 6,479 ballots cast
Rocky River - 16,600 registered voters / 20,070 ballots cast
Solon (WD6) - 2,292 registered voters / 4,300 ballots cast
South Euclid - 16,902 registered voters / 16,917 ballots cast
Strongsville (WD3) - 7,806 registered voters / 12,108 ballots cast
University Heights - 10,072 registered voters / 11,982 ballots cast
Valley View Village - 1,787 registered voters / 3,409 ballots cast
Warrensville Heights - 10,562 registered voters / 15,039 ballots cast
Woodmere Village - 558 registered voters / 8,854 ballots cast
Bedford (CSD) - 22,777 registered voters / 27,856 ballots cast
Independence (LSD) - 5,735 registered voters / 6,226 ballots cast
Orange (CSD) - 11,640 registered voters / 22,931 ballots cast
Warrensville (CSD) - 12,218 registered voters / 15,822 ballots cast
Now here's an article from the Cleveland Plain Dealer:
Ohio Voters Tell of Election Day Troubles at Hearing
By Reginald Fields
The Cleveland Plain Dealer
Sunday 14 November 2004
Tales of waiting more than five hours to vote, voter intimidation, under-trained polling-station workers and too few or broken voting machines largely in urban or heavily minority areas were retold Saturday at a public hearing organized by voter-rights groups.
For three hours, burdened voters, one after another, offered sworn testimony about Election Day voter suppression and irregularities that they believe are threatening democracy.
The hearing, sponsored by the Election Protection Coalition, was to collect testimony of voting troubles that might be used to seek legislative changes to Ohio's election process.
The organizers chose Ohio because it was a swing state in the presidential election as well as the site of numerous claims of election fraud and voter disenfranchisement.
"I think a lot of us had a sense that something had deeply went wrong on Nov. 2 and it had to do with the election process and procedures in place that were unacceptable," said Amy Kaplan, one of the hearing's coordinators.
Kaplan said the hearing gave everyday citizens a chance to have their concerns placed into public record.
Both a written and video report on the hearing will be provided to anyone who wants a copy, especially state lawmakers who are considering mandating Election Day changes, Kaplan said.
Many of the voters who testified were clearly Democrats who wonder if their losing presidential candidate, Sen. John Kerry, was able to draw all the votes that were intended for him.
"I call on Sen. Kerry to un-concede until there is a full count of the votes," said Werner Lange of Trumbull County, who claimed that polling places in his Northeast Ohio neighborhood had half the number of voting machines that were needed.
"This caused a bottleneck at polling stations, and many people left without voting," he said.
Others said they were testifying not on political grounds but out of concern for a suspicious election system that should be above reproach.
Harvey Wasserman of Bexley said he tried to vote absentee with the same home address he has used for 18 years but was told he couldn't because his absentee application had the wrong address.
"But the notice telling me I had the wrong address arrived at the right address," he said. "I wonder, how many of these absentee ballots were rejected for no good reason?
"My concern is not out of the outcome of the election," Wasserman said, "but that this could go on and an election could be stolen. And we simply can't have that in a democracy."
I honestly don't know what this all means. Is this a sign the GOP, who runs the elections in Ohio, stacked the deck against the Dems? Or is it merely the Dems now crying foul after loosing fair and square? I don't know. I also don't know how anyone will ever know. Unless you're part of the "machine" on either side chances are you're not going to know the the truth about anything. Today everything is put in the "spin cycle" before it ends up for general consumtion. What it says to me is that we NEED a standardized federal election process the ensures that all sides are receive equal, fair treatment. Partisan ran election boards at a minimum create an appearance of fraud. But seriously if you read reports like this regarding an election that had taken place in say Columbia or Boliva wouldn't you just assume the election was fixed?
Last edited:
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Wow. Excellent post.
What it says to me is that we NEED a standardized federal election process the ensures that all sides are receive equal, fair treatment.
Absoluetly.
I am sure there are all kinds of crap like this that fall under both parties. Besides if we went to a standardized election process it would put 1000's of lawyers and out of job.
A coworker of mine said his brother lives in New York and has residency in Florida as well. He was planning on voting twice - for Kerry.
What it says to me is that we NEED a standardized federal election process the ensures that all sides are receive equal, fair treatment.
Absoluetly.
I am sure there are all kinds of crap like this that fall under both parties. Besides if we went to a standardized election process it would put 1000's of lawyers and out of job.
A coworker of mine said his brother lives in New York and has residency in Florida as well. He was planning on voting twice - for Kerry.
Pacridge
DP Veteran
I think said before that I like Michael Moore. I went to a speach he was giving in Portland, Or just days before the election. Above the stage was large sign that read "Vote early, Vote often." When I saw it I laughed, almost out loud. Later as I drove home I thought about that sign again and it made me a little sad and then a little mad. Have we really gotten to the point to where the only way we (either side) feel we can win is to cheat? At first I took the sign as merely a joke. But was it? Really? And even if it was meant as "just a joke" How many who saw it would have taken illegal action? I like Mike, I don't everything he does or says.