Easier to get Welfare than to get a job?

[Gimmesometruth]

Your analogy about what appears to be the chief enterprise these days was frighteningly on the mark! And some are willing to accept this? Wow! :afraid:

LOL...I believe you and your ilk are the ones "accepting" the analogy.

 

[Fisher]

It still is a dubious anecdotal argument and I am not making any kind of an absolutist argument, I am pointing out that it is not representative of SNAP recipients. If the poster was concerned about this supposed "HS buddy" or the fraud, he would report the fraud and take some positive action instead of enabling the addiction and fed/state fraud.

They usually only investigate retailers not individuals. There is an assumption that computer checks against IRS/state income records will catch the fibbers.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

They usually only investigate retailers not individuals. There is an assumption that computer checks against IRS/state income records will catch the fibbers.

BS, they often stop individual benefits for false reporting........and often go after back overpayments.

Again, the poster was not interested in reporting the fraud, his argument fails.

 

[humbolt]

LOL...I believe you and your ilk are the ones "accepting" the analogy.

So an expressed objection equals acceptance in your cloven hoofed world? Doesn't take much to get a "mooooo" out of you.

 

[Fisher]

BS, they often stop individual benefits for false reporting........and often go after back overpayments.

Again, the poster was not interested in reporting the fraud, his argument fails.

As were likely discovered by computers as I indicated. Someone I know tried to report suspected fraud by someone else. They were told they couldn't even take her report because they had no fraud investigators locally, and that just because she thought something was fraud did not mean the people were not entitled to what they receive. :shrug:

 

[Gimmesometruth]

So an expressed objection equals acceptance in your cloven hoofed world? Doesn't take much to get a "mooooo" out of you.

Are you making an argument that you do not accept?

 

[polgara]

It is scary, and based on what I see, the majority is quite willing to accept it because they don't know of anything else. We are told daily now that the standard we used to embrace is no longer attainable. Full employment is now around an 8% or more unemployment rate. Welfare is as good as work. A family is any group who happens to share a roof. The news from any source confirms that every day is a disaster. The differences among our species are much, much more important than the similarities. It's damn near evil, which does seem to exist in spite of all the objections.

I foresee a day when a large bunch of humans finally start acting like balky mules, just refusing to accept any more :bs: If we could only get DC to understand that their continued employment is contingent upon turning this ship around ASAP! Or would we simply exchange one group of worthless lawyers for another group of worthless lawyers whose main duty is to themselves? We're only here to provide tax dollars in order to pay for their bright ideas, I guess! Social engineering is the goal, so full steam ahead! :cuckoo:

 

[Gimmesometruth]

As were likely discovered by computers as I indicated. Someone I know tried to report suspected fraud by someone else. They were told they couldn't even take her report because they had no fraud investigators locally, and that just because she thought something was fraud did not mean the people were not entitled to what they receive. :shrug:

FFS...now we are getting into the realm of second hand anecdotal argument made about SNAP fraud....from a poster who already stated the extremely low level of fraud that exists!

Are you seriously going to continue with this path along with the absolutist argument? Do you have a point?

 

[Gimmesometruth]

I foresee a day when a large bunch of humans finally start acting like balky mules, just refusing to accept any more :bs: If we could only get DC to understand that their continued employment is contingent upon turning this ship around ASAP! Or would we simply exchange one group of worthless lawyers for another group of worthless lawyers whose main duty is to themselves? We're only here to provide tax dollars in order to pay for their bright ideas, I guess! Social engineering is the goal, so full steam ahead! :cuckoo:

This is rich coming from someone who supports the efforts of the GOP House reps. Hint: They are the ones publicly committed to stopping up the works in DC.

 

[humbolt]

Are you making an argument that you do not accept?

The argument itself is an objection to what is perceived as the currently accepted norm by the political left. It's the description of the liberal norm you don't like, but other than a snarky moooo, you've offered nothing in response.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

The argument itself is an objection to what is perceived as the currently accepted norm by the political left. It's the description of the liberal norm you don't like, but other than a snarky moooo, you've offered nothing in response.

It is your perception, it is an illusion you accept...ergo..."wow" as stated by polg.

I don't accept it, just as I don't accept the argument that soup kitchens cause depressions......which is what is being argued.

 

[polgara]

LOL...I believe you and your ilk are the ones "accepting" the analogy.

Greetings, Gimmesometruth. :2wave:

Don't be mislead by what appears to be acquiescence, because it's not. People are more edgy and angry these days than in the past, and it's going to cause problems. When nearly everyone seems to be unhappy with the status quo, no matter what their personal reasons are, or their societal status, that is not a good sign, IMO. Just my opinion, for what it's worth. eace:

 

[humbolt]

It is your perception, it is an illusion you accept...ergo..."wow" as stated by polg.

I don't accept it, just as I don't accept the argument that soup kitchens cause depressions......which is what is being argued.

It's an accurate perception and analogy. You are completely free to not accept it. I wouldn't expect you to accept the truth of the result of your effort. Either we're having an economic recovery, or we aren't. If we are, as the left has continually argued, then the maintenance of soup kitchens beyond their necessity does in fact discourage productive economic activity. That you both accept and reject such an argument simultaneously strongly suggests you are the one suffering an illusion, or that you are in fact one of the cattle.

 

[humbolt]

Greetings, Gimmesometruth. :2wave:

Don't be mislead by what appears to be acquiescence, because it's not. People are more edgy and angry these days than in the past, and it's going to cause problems. When nearly everyone seems to be unhappy with the status quo, no matter what their personal reasons are, or their societal status, that is not a good sign, IMO. Just my opinion, for what it's worth. eace:

Not bad for your "ilk".

 

[jamesrage]

I do not disagree with anything you have stated, but does that make it right for the administration (and not only this one) to make dependency so easy rather than foster some measure of self reliance?

To be fair the government is the same entity making self reliance much harder.Outsourcing, proposed amnesty for illegals and visa worker increase,the value of the dollar falling and encouraging companies to only hire part time workers. These things effect a person's wages and therefore reduce their ability to be self reliant.

If good paying jobs were not as hard to come by, people with no desire to work would still take the easy way out.... the path of least resistance. Why?

I do not think its a issue of people with no desire to work. Many welfare recipients work. Contrary to popular belief not everyone on welfare is sitting on their ass drinking 40s,popping out 20 babies and watching Jerry Springer.

 

[polgara]

Not bad for your "ilk".

:lamo: :thumbs:

I never knew I had an "ilk." Is it near the appendix, cause if it is, it got taken when my appendix was removed! I am, therefore, ilk free! Gimme is okay, he just likes to bait, and debate!

 

[humbolt]

:lamo: :thumbs:

I never knew I had an "ilk." Is it near the appendix, cause if it is, it got taken when my appendix was removed! I am, therefore, ilk free! Gimme is okay, he just likes to bait, and debate!

Gimme is just fine. It's fun. Especially the cattle part. Or cattle parts, one of which is the "ilk". I'm certain you're ilk free. I may not be. I sent off for a triple digit IQ, but it hasn't arrived yet. So dealing with my ilk remains burdensome.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Greetings, Gimmesometruth. :2wave:

Don't be mislead by what appears to be acquiescence, because it's not. People are more edgy and angry these days than in the past, and it's going to cause problems. When nearly everyone seems to be unhappy with the status quo, no matter what their personal reasons are, or their societal status, that is not a good sign, IMO. Just my opinion, for what it's worth. eace:

I completely disagree, I see people in general apathetic to the conditions we are in. There was a very real reaction in the depression to the bank failures, runs on banks were very real. There was an atmosphere of revolution that was only quelled by work/social programs enacted by FDR and Congress, we were one step away from fascistic dictatorship but FDR saved democracy. We headed off bank runs this time through proactive funding via TARP, but the only real effort applied to work programs was a minuscule ARRA, made up mostly of tax cuts. Occupy WS was a short lived protest for more support to workers, and it has been countered by anti-support elements of Baggers. This has been the greatest loss of employment/income/wages since the GD, yet all we have are fringe activity, half of it calling for no action.

I remember the Civil Rights protests, the riots, I remember the anti-Vietnam war protests......we are no where near that level of "anger" with the absolute failure of capitalism.

 

[polgara]

Gimme is just fine. It's fun. Especially the cattle part. Or cattle parts, one of which is the "ilk". I'm certain you're ilk free. I may not be. I sent off for a triple digit IQ, but it hasn't arrived yet. So dealing with my ilk remains burdensome.

Once again....:lamo: :thumbs: Now add :kissy: because you deserve it for your sense of humor! And we aren't even discussing dogs and cats today!

 

[Gimmesometruth]

It's an accurate perception and analogy.

No, it has little basis in reality.

You are completely free to not accept it.

Um, I'll repeat, it is accepted t by those disassociated from reality, it is a fantasy, an illusion of your own making.

I wouldn't expect you to accept the truth of the result of your effort.

My effort? It is your creation.

Either we're having an economic recovery, or we aren't.

Of course, that is objectively measured.

If we are, as the left has continually argued, then the maintenance of soup kitchens beyond their necessity does in fact discourage productive economic activity.

What a stupid argument, starvation does not create jobs....FFS!

That you both accept and reject such an argument simultaneously strongly suggests you are the one suffering an illusion, or that you are in fact one of the cattle.

You are still deluding yourself in the belief that I accept your original analogy.

 

[bubbabgone]

Still ignoring the fact that the was not the causation for the increases? Still cannot wrap your argument around the cause of employment/income/wealth declines?

Hint: Your "point" had little to do with the increase in SNAP applicants.

"Obama’s economic stimulus legislation suspended the rule for all states starting April 2009."

"Since Barack Obama took office in January 2009, the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) has grown by 49.3% and now includes 47 million Americans"

 

[Gimmesometruth]

"Obama’s economic stimulus legislation suspended the rule for all states starting April 2009."

"Since Barack Obama took office in January 2009, the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) has grown by 49.3% and now includes 47 million Americans"

This is a classic case of coincidence confused with causation.

The change in ABAWD work rules did not cause the job losses in 2008-2009, the action was a response to the losses.

PS.....employment has always been a lagging indicator.

 

[polgara]

I completely disagree, I see people in general apathetic to the conditions we are in. There was a very real reaction in the depression to the bank failures, runs on banks were very real. There was an atmosphere of revolution that was only quelled by work/social programs enacted by FDR and Congress, we were one step away from fascistic dictatorship but FDR saved democracy. We headed off bank runs this time through proactive funding via TARP, but the only real effort applied to work programs was a minuscule ARRA, made up mostly of tax cuts. Occupy WS was a short lived protest for more support to workers, and it has been countered by anti-support elements of Baggers. This has been the greatest loss of employment/income/wages since the GD, yet all we have are fringe activity, half of it calling for no action.

I remember the Civil Rights protests, the riots, I remember the anti-Vietnam war protests......we are no where near that level of "anger" with the absolute failure of capitalism.

You can't deny that we just might be on the same path, though! I also remember the days you refer to, as do many others, but it takes time to change a society's thinking, and that doesn't always equate to "happy days are here again." We seem to be on a downward spiral for some reason, and that bothers me. How many are prepared, both mentally and physically, to live through another Great Depression, as an example. DC needs to lead by a different example than they are showing us, IMO. Life should not be "every man for himself," which is what some people are seeing and emulating. It won't last, but it's sad while it's happening.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

You can't deny that we just might be on the same path, though! I also remember the days you refer to, as do many others, but it takes time to change a society's thinking, and that doesn't always equate to "happy days are here again." We seem to be on a downward spiral for some reason, and that bothers me. How many are prepared, both mentally and physically, to live through another Great Depression, as an example. DC needs to lead by a different example than they are showing us, IMO. Life should not be "every man for himself," which is what some people are seeing and emulating. It won't last, but it's sad while it's happening.

You are back to the same argument again, you are not recognizing the part of DC that is limiting the legislative action on real jobs efforts. You recognize that NAFTA and various other bit of legislation have decimated the manufacturing base, you see that conservative groups are the ones pushing the "for himself" libertarian mantra....and yet you still put down this administration's attempts to work towards greater levels of recovery. Sequestration, cutting of SNAP benefits, stopping real jobs programs.....are not what this administration wants.

 

[polgara]

"Obama’s economic stimulus legislation suspended the rule for all states starting April 2009."

"Since Barack Obama took office in January 2009, the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) has grown by 49.3% and now includes 47 million Americans"

Why, Bubba? That's the part I can't understand. It's true that there are now more of us than before, so the percentage is higher, but we as a Country have lived through worse. Have people just given up trying because they're discouraged that no matter how hard they try, it just doesn't improve their lives? Is it apathy as Gimme posted? This Country is still the wonder of most of the rest of the world, so we should be acting like we also recognize that fact, instead of going along with the status quo of third world victim thinking! :bs: