Drumming Out of the service. Bring it back ? (1 Viewer)

[APACHERAT]

Drumming out is the historical act of being dishonorably dismissed from military service to the sound of a drum. It may refer to any act of expulsion or dismissal in disgrace

Should the U.S. military bring back the Drumming Out Ceremony for those who have disgraced their buddies, unit, service and country and have been court martiled and given a dishonorable or bad conduct discharge ?

With all of the recent stories of members of the U.S. military who have been discharged or for officers who were forced to resign their commissions because of violating the UCMJ (Not those flag officers and field grade officers who have been purged by the Obama administration, 197 since December in the past five years. Those officers were purged for political reasons for not being politically correct, an entire different issue.) Basically the U.S. military over the past few years has found it's ranks full of unhappy campers, cocky returning combat vets and those who no longer give a ####.

The drumming out of the military was a long time military tradition for those who had disgraced the uniform they wore. The soldier, Marine or sailor who was court martial and was given a DH or CID would stand before his unit. Company or battalion or even regiment. His CO would read off the charges and then remove all insignias, chevrons, patches, buttons any thing identifying with the military from the uniform. Then the CO would order everyone in the formation to about face while he orders the MP's to escort the former of the base while a drummer would drum the death march at a slow pace.

By the time I enlisted the drumming out ceremony was stopped six years before by former Commandant of the Marine Corps, Gen. Cushman. The last drumming out taking place at Marine Barracks, Norfolk Naval Base in 1962.

But I've talked to many Marines who have witnessed a drumming out and said it was something that stuck with you. That you would later think twice before breaking regulations. Something you never want to experience being humiliated.

The first recorded drumming out in the American military happended during the Revolutionary War. Lieutenant Frederick Gotthold Enslin was drummed out of the Army for committing buggery.



The Owosso Argus-Press - Google News Archive Search



1996 Air Force Judge Advocate General School
The Air Force Law Review


ARTICLE: DRUMMING OUT CEREMONIES: HISTORICAL RELIC OR OVERLOOKED TOOL

Author
Lieutenant Colonel John C. Kunich, USAF *
Excerpt
I. INTRODUCTION

Those who watched the television program Branded during the 1960s will recall the opening sequence of every episode. Actor Chuck Connors, portraying a United States Army officer during the late nineteenth century, stood at attention before an assemblage of troops somewhere in the Indian territories. Military drummers beat an ominous rhythm. Having been court-martialed for desertion, Connors remained motionless while his epaulets and jacket buttons were ceremoniously ripped from his uniform and his sword was broken in two. This "drumming out" ceremony marked the end of his military career.

The American military has in fact used various forms of such a ceremony of ignominy, to coin a phrase. They were generally part of an actual court-martial sentence, adjudged by a court in a given case, typically in time of war.

The purpose of this article is to trace the history of ceremonies of ignominy and to place them within a modern context. The possibility of reviving them in some form within today's military will be evaluated, with an analysis of the legal and practical issues this would entail.

II. HISTORICAL BACKGROUND

A ceremony of ignominy is intended to focus a unit's attention on the disloyal, cowardly, or dishonorable nature of the convicted person's behavior. In wartime, acts of cowardice or treachery sometimes led a court-martial to adjudge a ceremony of ignominy as a portion of the punishment. As with any sentence, a ceremony of ignominy has multiple purposes, including the general deterrence of similar misconduct ...

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Slow Cadence Beat

>"While stationed at MCAS El Toro, in the late 1950's, we had a corporal in our squadron that was in the brig for adultery, theft, awol, and other charges. One day we were assembled in 2 files with the squadron CO at the end and between the 2 ranks. Two MP's escorted the corporal in question to the squadron CO and the charges were read as were the findings of the Court Martial which were Dishonorable Discharge.

At that time the CO stripped the prisoner of his rank, ordered the entire squadron to do an "about face" and the prisoner was marched past us with a drummer from Field Music drumming a slow cadence beat. All this while we were faced AWAY from the prisoner.

As I write this there are tears in my eyes, not for the prisoner but because of the dishonor brought upon the Corps. As I see it, years in the brig would be nothing compared to the humility and disgrace brought upon by a "drumming out". If I did the same, I would expect the same."<

Semper Fi.
Sid Gerling
Sgt of Marines 1954 - 1962

Sgt Grit Newsletter


Drumming Out
>"The only instance of 'drumming out' that I personally witnessed was at Camp Lejeune in 1957 when I was a new Marine was in 1st Battalion, 10th Marines. One morning we had a battalion formation in front of the 2nd battalion messhall, and it must have been the 'winter' season because we were in 'greens'. A hapless individual was marched front and center by a chaser and halted. His court martial was read to the battalion probably by the Sergeant Major, the buttons were cut off the uniform and his emblems removed. The battalion was called to attention and commanded "About Face!" While our backs were to him he was marched off, placed in a vehicle and driven away. I do dimly recall a muted drumbeat in the background.

To a new PFC, it was a sobering experience. The term was "Six, six and a kick" Six months confinement, six months forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and a kick out the hatch."<

Semper Fidelis
Joe Featherston
Mustang Major of Marines, Retired
1956-1978
(MOS: 0800 / 2531 / 2511 / 6406 / 3060 / 6602)

Sgt Grit Newsletter

 

[Beaudreaux]

Drumming out is the historical act of being dishonorably dismissed from military service to the sound of a drum. It may refer to any act of expulsion or dismissal in disgrace

Should the U.S. military bring back the Drumming Out Ceremony for those who have disgraced their buddies, unit, service and country and have been court martiled and given a dishonorable or bad conduct discharge ?

...

Never witnessed a Drumming Out. However, I was told by many of the old crusties what it was like. And they were not happy that it was stopped...

My vote? Bring it back.

 

[mak2]

It might be good for the Marines and the bird getting thrown out probably don't give a hoot one way or the other, so yea, do it.

 

[APACHERAT]

Never witnessed a Drumming Out. However, I was told by many of the old crusties what it was like. And they were not happy that it was stopped...

My vote? Bring it back.

I concur.

I think you would see a quick change within the military with less disciplinary problems.

Now you know the drumming out ceremony isn't considered to be politically correct.

 

[Beaudreaux]

I concur.

I think you would see a quick change within the military with less disciplinary problems.

Now you know the drumming out ceremony isn't considered to be politically correct.

Being a trekie, I like the Klingon version, although it lacks and could use the drums...

 

[braindrain]

I concur.

I think you would see a quick change within the military with less disciplinary problems.

Now you know the drumming out ceremony isn't considered to be politically correct.

Not saying that it would be bad for the service as a whole but I doubt it would do much in the way of reducing discipline problems. Most of the turds who would be getting the boot don't really care as they want out anyway.

 

[APACHERAT]

Not saying that it would be bad for the service as a whole but I doubt it would do much in the way of reducing discipline problems. Most of the turds who would be getting the boot don't really care as they want out anyway.

Those who have wittnessed a drumming out say diffrent.

 

[APACHERAT]

Being a trekie, I like the Klingon version, although it lacks and could use the drums...

Klingons without drummers and pheifers

 

[Crosscheck]

Those who have wittnessed a drumming out say diffrent.

There are some that deserve it definitely. But I really don't think it would decrease disciplinary problems just as the death penalty really doesn't decrease murders.

There are some bad seeds that don't give a damn about the consequences of their actions.

 

[APACHERAT]

There are some that deserve it definitely. But I really don't think it would decrease disciplinary problems just as the death penalty really doesn't decrease murders.

There are some bad seeds that don't give a damn about the consequences of their actions.

Have you ever served ?

I bet just about everyone who has ever served at one time or another felt like punching some Non-Com or an officer in the face.

Why did 99.99% decide not to do it ? Probably because they knew the result would end up being served that Big Chicken Dinner. (BCD)

You start publicaly hanging murders with in 24 hours after being found guilty, you watch the murder rate take a dive in places like the South Side of Chicago or in L.A.

 

[APACHERAT]

Drummed out of Camp, near York, PA –
>"In a recent issue, says the Harrisburg Telegraph, we alluded to the fact that a court-martial had been ordered at Camp Scott for the trial of Frank Grant, charged with committing a violent assault upon the person of a fellow soldier named McGowan. The court terminated its labors on Saturday by finding the defendant guilty, and ordering that he forfeit all the pay due him as a soldier, and be drummed out of the service. The sentence was carried into effect in the presence of the entire camp. A correspondent thus describes the ceremony:


“Shortly after eight o’clock Grant, who had been kept under guard since the occurrence, was taken charge of by a guard of five men, with a sergeant, stripped of his uniform, and with his hands tied behind his back, and in his shirt sleeves, marched in front of the Twelfth and Thirteenth Regiments, a martial band playing the Rogues’ March, or a tune something akin to it, which I thought to be that known by the name of ‘Go to the Devil and Shake Yourself.’ He was then conducted in the same manner all around the camp, finally out of it, placed in the town tombs [jail], where he will remain at the disposal of the civil authorities.


It was a humiliating scene, and much sympathy was felt in behalf of the poor fellow as he walked along with his head down, and hat drawn over his brow. He begged to be shot rather than be subjected to the disgrace of being drummed out of the service; and when an officer visited him in the lock-up, and offered to do all in his power for him, Grant begged that he would exercise his friendship by killing him on the spot.”The correspondent then opined, “The sentence and its prompt and effectual execution was necessary, and will serve as an example to others.”

It must have worked, because I have not encountered any other documentation of any other soldier being formally drummed out of Camp Scott.

Here is what I do know about Mr. Grant:
Twenty-seven-year-old Francis Grant was a dark complected, brown-eyed machinist from Pittsburgh. Short at 5′ 4″ in height and with dark hair, he enlisted as a private in Company C of the 13th Pennsylvania Infantry for a term of three months. He began his brief military career at Camp Curtin in Harrisburg, where the regiment was formally mustered into service on April 15, 1861. Eleven days later, Grant and his comrades embarked on a train for York, where they quartered at Camp Scott near the 12th Pennsylvania Infantry. Grant became involved in an altercation with Private Benjamin Franklin McGowan of Company A of the 13th and was arrested and court-martialed in late May.
Frank Grant had only been a soldier in the Union Army a little more than a month when he was ingloriously drummed out of the service at Camp Scott in front of some two thousand of his fellow soldiers. He was then locked up in York’s city jail to await charges of assault.
I have not located any record of the results of his court appearance, but it must have been brief. In early August 1861, Grant rejoined the army in Washington D.C. as a trooper in Company G of the 3rd Pennsylvania Cavalry, apparently having learned his lesson. He was honorably discharged on August 14, 1864 on a surgeon’s certificate of disability. There is nothing on his service record to indicate he ever again ran afoul of the authorities."<

 

[braindrain]

Those who have wittnessed a drumming out say diffrent.

I don't doubt that it would stop a few people from doing whatever crap they were going to do but I don't see it effecting the majority. If getting kicked out with a dishonorable discharge and possible jail time are not enough to get some one to behave I doubt much would. And to be honest I would rather not serve with people who either don't want to be there or are only doing the right thing because they are to scared of the consequences of screwing up. I prefer working with professionals.

 

[APACHERAT]

I don't doubt that it would stop a few people from doing whatever crap they were going to do but I don't see it effecting the majority. If getting kicked out with a dishonorable discharge and possible jail time are not enough to get some one to behave I doubt much would. And to be honest I would rather not serve with people who either don't want to be there or are only doing the right thing because they are to scared of the consequences of screwing up. I prefer working with professionals.

People like Puller, Patton, Holland Smith, Halsey, Basilone's definition of who's a professional may differ from yours.

I only mention John Basilone's name because exactly 69 years ago from today U.S. Marines were in their fifth day of fighting on Iwo Jima and and exactly 69 years and five days ago (2-19-45) Sergeant John Basilone paid the ultimate price.

 

[Crosscheck]

Have you ever served ?

I bet just about everyone who has ever served at one time or another felt like punching some Non-Com or an officer in the face.

Why did 99.99% decide not to do it ? Probably because they knew the result would end up being served that Big Chicken Dinner. (BCD)

You start publicaly hanging murders with in 24 hours after being found guilty, you watch the murder rate take a dive in places like the South Side of Chicago or in L.A.

Yes, I served so what? I just know human behavior and this will not be a deterrent to the majority. It will deter some but there is a group that just doesn't give a blank what will happen to them nor do they think they will be charged. You will meet some in the military who think the rules only applies to others.

 

[WCH]

Branded (TV series) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Reminded me of this old TV show.

 

[Crosscheck]

Branded (TV series) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Reminded me of this old TV show.

He was innocent of the charges too.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Shame is a good tool for social manipulation. If it helps the military adhere to their standards and this is shown by objective studies, then go for it.

 

[shrubnose]

Shame is a good tool for social manipulation. If it helps the military adhere to their standards and this is shown by objective studies, then go for it.

I agree that some people on this planet have a lot to be ashamed of.

And if publicizing that encourages others to do better, we should do it.

 

[justabubba]

Shame is a good tool for social manipulation. If it helps the military adhere to their standards and this is shown by objective studies, then go for it.

then we should also require a MASSIVE percussion unit dedicated to congressional ceremonies

 

[Slartibartfast]

then we should also require a MASSIVE percussion unit dedicated to congressional ceremonies

Modern sound engineering can make a single drum sound like death itself is coming, i suggest we use that