DP Book Club: Mosquito Coast Discussion Thread

[Tucker Case]

This is the official thread (I took over until 10 comes back) to discuss Mosquito Coast For the DP Book Club.

So, What'd everyone think?

 

[SWM]

Still lack about 40 pages, but I've really enjoyed this book. It's thought-provoking in the truest sense: Ostensibly it is not concerned with philosophy or existentialism, but through its characters(which is what any good story is ultimately about) it provokes consideration of all manner of things - what qualities of a man are virtues, and which are foibles; the pleasures and despairs of modern civilization; what it means to survive, in both the most literal and most figurative senses of the word; the effect of American cultural omnipresence on all corners of the world; what it means to rely on someone entirely, and what it means if that person is insane, or cruel, or arrogant, or drunk on power; the experience and consequences of becoming old enough to doubt one's parents.

It seems endlessly discussable to me. Allie Fox is deeply engaging, and painfully real.

 

[missypea]

Father, even in his early manic stages, was still a mostly likable and charismatic guy. It was easy to pass him off as quirky and eccentric. I really liked how his mind worked and the ingenious inventions he created.

I really started disliking him once he began goading Charlie to do things that were dangerous. Charlie's mother had a pretty big effect on the story by being absent in her role as a protector for the kids. Father was all consuming.

Charlie made a reference to how his mother thought of Father....she thought he was wonderful when he was happy (or energized, or something). I think she agreed to leave America because she loved Allie and wanted things to be like they were before. Before Allie's manic stages escalated.

As they were planning their trip and even on the boat, I remember thinking that the Mother had to stop this. It couldn't have a good ending. Father/Allie was spiraling out of control.

Jeronimo came together pretty quickly and the successful creation of Fat Boy gave me a little hope that maybe everything could work out (but I knew there were too many pages left for that to be true).

Father's desire to be the teacher/exalted one by sharing farming advice, carpentry skills and ICE from Fat Boy with the "savages" ended up with disasterous consequences. Father's sanity had been walking on a tightrope for a long time. I think the murder of the two men exasperated Father's mental condition and pushed him over the edge.

The mania that once brought Father's inspiration for his inventions overtook all reasoning. Once he took his family to their new home, I knew Father was beyond the reach of sanity. He built their home too close to the river's edge. He planted their garden too close to the river. It was as if he intentionally set out to fail. In this harsh setting, it was as if he was setting the stage for his family to die.

Charlie loved his Father. He admired him and respected him. Charlie had an innocence that I saw replaced with pragmatism and maturity. It made me angry with Charlie's mother. I felt that she identified who she was through Allie and once Allie left her (ie...madness) she was prepared to die and let her children die. Charlie's brother (what was his name?) seeded doubt in Charlie's mind regarding the greatness of Father from the start. I think his words played a big part in moving Charlie to a place of action.

After Father's death, the family's future (even their very lives) hung in the balance. I would love to read a sequel to this story. What became of the kids and Mother? How did this experience play out in their adult lives? Did they go to school? Did they marry? Did they invent and create or did they become accountants and turn away from everything their father represented?

This was a great read.

Thanks! :2wave:

 

[talloulou]

I didn't find Allie Fox likable, charming, charismatic, or engaging. I hated him. He was a tyrant, completely insane, and dangerous. His favorite past time seemed to be mental mind ****ing others, especially his own children. I even disliked the mother for allowing such a dangerous man with such a loose grip on reality to remain at the helm of their family for so long. Even towards the end when Allie became psychotically dangerous the mother seemed completely incompetent to step up to the plate and take control.

He was an ego maniac, a terrorist, a torturer, a liar, a control freak, an abuser, obsessive compulsive, paranoid, and self centered.

This was not some genius with charming eccentricities. The guy was bat**** insane and behaved in alarming and menacing ways. While the mother sat by doing nothing the kids were held hostage by an insane person.


By the end of the book the only character I felt close to was Jerry. He was the only one who clearly saw the dad for the monster that he was.

 

[missypea]

I didn't find Allie Fox likable, charming, charismatic, or engaging. I hated him. He was a tyrant, completely insane, and dangerous. His favorite past time seemed to be mental mind ****ing others, especially his own children. I even disliked the mother for allowing such a dangerous man with such a loose grip on reality to remain at the helm of their family for so long. Even towards the end when Allie became psychotically dangerous the mother seemed completely incompetent to step up to the plate and take control.

He was an ego maniac, a terrorist, a torturer, a liar, a control freak, an abuser, obsessive compulsive, paranoid, and self centered.

This was not some genius with charming eccentricities. The guy was bat**** insane and behaved in alarming and menacing ways. While the mother sat by doing nothing the kids were held hostage by an insane person.


By the end of the book the only character I felt close to was Jerry. He was the only one who clearly saw the dad for the monster that he was.

JERRY! That's his name. Thanks!

The Father was bat**** insane...in the end. I was also disappointed with the mother (and here it comes) but manic people are often charismatic, engaging and overbearing....some people are attracted to that. We caught up with Allie as he was beginning the downward spiral into madness. There were glimpses of him that I could see would have been appealing for Charlie's mom before he went whacko. By the time he started flipping out, she was married with four kids.

Charlie didn't give us a background on extended family (so in my story there was no extended family. No friends). Since she had zero resources so I cut her a little slack. It seemed that Allie ran the show from day one. The energy/personality that Allie had probably diminished her instead of empowering her. Bottom line, she needed to protect her kids and she didn't so I get why you're pissed at her. I was too.

I'm giving her a little more slack because of the background material I added to the story.

 

[talloulou]

I was just completely unsympathetic towards Allie Fox. Reading the book was like spending time with some crazy bipolar paranoid asshole.

I think the book would have been a better story for me if Jerry was the narrator. Had it been narrated by the mother I imagine it would be unreadable. I would like to know more about a character like Jerry. A kid who sees the emperors got no clothes. Jerry knew his father was a douchebag while Charlie was still making excuses for dad's indefensible behavior. The mother was useless. I'd have loved to have heard the story from beginning to end from Jerry's perspective. Charlie wasn't spineless like his mother. But Jerry had balls and seemed far less willing to forgive or tolerate some mad professors b.s.

 

[Tucker Case]

I was just completely unsympathetic towards Allie Fox. Reading the book was like spending time with some crazy bipolar paranoid asshole.

I think the book would have been a better story for me if Jerry was the narrator. Had it been narrated by the mother I imagine it would be unreadable. I would like to know more about a character like Jerry. A kid who sees the emperors got no clothes. Jerry knew his father was a douchebag while Charlie was still making excuses for dad's indefensible behavior. The mother was useless. I'd have loved to have heard the story from beginning to end from Jerry's perspective. Charlie wasn't spineless like his mother. But Jerry had balls and seemed far less willing to forgive or tolerate some mad professors b.s.

I thought the story was Charlie's journey from Idolization of his father to realization of the selfish prick his father really was.

If it was narrated by Jerry, there would have been no growth in the protagonist.

Page 277 (in my book) was the point where Charlie begins to finally understand his father's inner workings: Pure selfish desire.

The mother was terrible as a character. I hated her. She never showed any spine, and just when I thought she might get to be a full character, she reverted back to the useless, spineless POS she was through the rest of the book.

Allie was a great antagonist IMO. I went on a similar journey as Charlie wihile reading (accentuated by the first-person narrative).

Early on I disliked Allie, but wished him no harm.

But towards the end of the book I wanted to bash his brains out with a hammer.

Overall, I thought it was an excellent book, wonderfully written and a very well-crafted story. I would have enjoyed more character development overall for the non-Allie, non-Charlie characters, who were all pretty much one-dimensional and undeveloped.

 

[missypea]

I thought the story was Charlie's journey from Idolization of his father to realization of the selfish prick his father really was.

Yeah, when he started really questioning his father I thought...oh good, the light is going on!

The mother was terrible as a character. I hated her. She never showed any spine, and just when I thought she might get to be a full character, she reverted back to the useless, spineless POS she was through the rest of the book.

I think this happens a lot more than people think that it does. Absent parenting, for whatever reason, is really common place...sad but true. I do think it's interesting that as a non-character in the book she got so much emotion out of me (and others).

Allie was a great antagonist IMO. I went on a similar journey as Charlie while reading (accentuated by the first-person narrative).

Me too!!

But towards the end of the book I wanted to bash his brains out with a hammer.

Another great thing about Jerry was his frankness. "Let's hit him over the head with a hammer" and what about "Farter?" I thought that was pretty good. The author did a good job of keeping the kids....kids.

Overall, I thought it was an excellent book, wonderfully written and a very well-crafted story. I would have enjoyed more character development overall for the non-Allie, non-Charlie characters, who were all pretty much one-dimensional and undeveloped.

YES! I think that's why I make up stories to go with books. If there's something missing, like in this one, I tell myself a story about the journey the characters took prior to Chapter One. Same goes for a sequel if I'm left wondering what happened to them after The End.

Am I the only one who makes up a story to fill in what's missing?

 

[SWM]

I didn't find Allie Fox likable, charming, charismatic, or engaging. I hated him. He was a tyrant, completely insane, and dangerous. His favorite past time seemed to be mental mind ****ing others, especially his own children. I even disliked the mother for allowing such a dangerous man with such a loose grip on reality to remain at the helm of their family for so long. Even towards the end when Allie became psychotically dangerous the mother seemed completely incompetent to step up to the plate and take control.

He was an ego maniac, a terrorist, a torturer, a liar, a control freak, an abuser, obsessive compulsive, paranoid, and self centered.

This was not some genius with charming eccentricities. The guy was bat**** insane and behaved in alarming and menacing ways. While the mother sat by doing nothing the kids were held hostage by an insane person.


By the end of the book the only character I felt close to was Jerry. He was the only one who clearly saw the dad for the monster that he was.

I'm pretty much in agreement with you on Allie. For the first half of the book, I felt Theroux was primarily asking me how redeemable I felt Allie was, and I fell on the more negative side of that. He had some occasional flashes of decency, albeit misdirected or born of ulterior motives. Ultimately, though, I found that question very compelling. As the story nears it's conclusion, that question disappears: It's impossible to see him as anything but monstrous.

Like others have said, I really regret that the story did not delve deeper into the mother. Simply the fact that she would marry and stay with someone like Allie instantly makes her a compelling character. Initially, her patience with him comes across as graceful, even. It's revealed later on that that patience has a lot more to do with a combination of fear and helpless dependence.

I disagree somewhat on Jerry, however. Jerry's view of his father was just the way he manifested his own panic and despair. He happened to be correct in that expression, but I don't think it came about from an insight more powerful than the others'; rather just the same chaotic desperation that inspired every character's thoughts in that last stretch.

 

[Tucker Case]

I disagree somewhat on Jerry, however. Jerry's view of his father was just the way he manifested his own panic and despair. He happened to be correct in that expression, but I don't think it came about from an insight more powerful than the others'; rather just the same chaotic desperation that inspired every character's thoughts in that last stretch.

I agree somewhat with this. Jerry was pretty much a non-entity until Charlie began to come to his own realization that his father was a nutbag.

After thinking about it, I believe that Jerry and "Mother" were really the two aspects of Charlie's mind that were at odds along the emotional journey.

In this way, the one-dimensionality works. They were purposely designed to be one-dimensional, and each one being an aspect of Charlie's psyche.

They were very much like the angel and demon "conscience" represantations that are used in bugs bunny cartoons. With Mother on one shoulder whispering about the idolized Allie in one ear, and Jerry on the other shoulder demonizing Allie in the other.

At the same time, both of these characters drew their true strength from Charlie himself.

 

[missypea]

Now for the part I didn't like.

I didn't like that Allie was shot and paralyzed. I thought it was predictable and unimaginative. Here's the man who never sleeps. The man who can do 50 push-ups. The man who doesn't require food or water.

Paralyzed.

That's the one part of the book I thought could have been done better. It was kind of expected if you know what I mean. Kind of here's the yin for your yang. I like my yin and yang scrambled.

The man who could do anything. The man who can do nothing. It was trite.

 

[SWM]

Now for the part I didn't like.

I didn't like that Allie was shot and paralyzed. I thought it was predictable and unimaginative. Here's the man who never sleeps. The man who can do 50 push-ups. The man who doesn't require food or water.

Paralyzed.

That's the one part of the book I thought could have been done better. It was kind of expected if you know what I mean. Kind of here's the yin for your yang. I like my yin and yang scrambled.

The man who could do anything. The man who can do nothing. It was trite.

I am inclined to agree, the justice was a little too poetic. It only bothered me a little bit though.

 

[Wessexman]

I'm usually hopeless at this sort of thing anything unless it was obvious but I thought it was simply a good tale rather than containing too many underlying political and social themes. I don't know if it was supposed to but that was my take. Obviously it was about the potentially damaging effects of personal rebellion but beyond that it was just an enjoyable story.

I personally wondered if Allie was bipolar but then again I don't know much about bipolar and I had just been watching Steven Fry's show about Manic depression.

 

[Tucker Case]

I'm usually hopeless at this sort of thing anything unless it was obvious but I thought it was simply a good tale rather than containing too many underlying political and social themes. I don't know if it was supposed to but that was my take. Obviously it was about the potentially damaging effects of personal rebellion but beyond that it was just an enjoyable story.

I personally wondered if Allie was bipolar but then again I don't know much about bipolar and I had just been watching Steven Fry's show about Manic depression.

Allie was not bipolar, since he didn't really show signs of regular depressive episodes, but their was clearly mania as well as narcissistic personality disorder, megalomania, and paranoia. His depressive periods were caused by his failures which he quickly denied ever existing and returned to mania.

That's my semi-pro psych evaluation of Allie.



And I must disagree regarding underlying political themes. I think the anti-technology/anti-industrial theme was pretty evident throughout.

Allie was always seeking to improve his environment through innovation, but these innovations only brought hardship. The happiest times for the children were those times when they reverted to "savagery" and living humbly and simply in the Acre.

What Allie was doing was exactly the same things that led to his issues about America. Such as straightening the river, etc.

The political aspect and lessons learned by the book would be that by trying to change teh world to suit our purposes instead of adapting ourselves to the world in which we live will always lead to hardship.

 

[Wessexman]

Interesting. Strange I missed that on the technology. I'm quite into decentralised, alternative technology myself which is sort of related.

 

[Tucker Case]

Interesting. Strange I missed that on the technology. I'm quite into decentralised, alternative technology myself which is sort of related.

Alternative technology was kind of the main thing going on in throughout the story. Like The Worm tub/"Fat Boy".

I thought it was great how Allie's complaints about fuel usage were parralelled by today's situaiot, but the book was written in 1980. Politically speaking, it was a great read in current times, since many of Allie's predictions are indeed coming true.

 

[talloulou]

The political aspect and lessons learned by the book would be that by trying to change teh world to suit our purposes instead of adapting ourselves to the world in which we live will always lead to hardship.

I don't know about that. One of the repetitive statements made was that Allie never did anything that didn't benefit himself first. His inventions came out of his own needs to have something vs any need to solve a problem for the greater good of all. He did seem excited at different points throughout the book to show and share his inventions with others. However it appeared his main goal was to impress others and feel superior. He had no interest in sharing anything with folks who weren't going to fall all over themselves in gratitude and amazement.

Anyway I didn't read the book and think trying to change the world vs adapting was a bad decision. Being a maniac like Allie would be bad. But invention in and of itself isn't a negative. The children altered their little acre area. They created forts, a church area, etc. The children were happy in their space because they were free from the insanity of their crazy dad.

What I got from the book is that extremism is almost always bad. You can have a cause, a religion, etc but any belief taken to the extreme will eventually cross the sanity line. Allie was insane. Allie didn't dislike religion, he despised it. He didn't dislike what was happening in America, he despised it. His personality, beliefs, ideas, actions were only toxic because they were all taken to the absolute extreme. There was nothing in moderation for Allie. Either total commitment or complete banning. Either love or hate. Success or failure. Such an extreme individual could never be in a state of relaxation. They'd always either be jubilant or raging.

I don't believe the book ever meant to say anything negative about trying to change the world, inventions, technology, etc. It was trying to show you what happens when activism is allowed to run wild. It leads to insanity. Insane people are dangerous.

Ever met a person who was an activist for a cause? A cause that on its face has some value, some merit. Yet the activist is so completely crazy and insane about it you just want them to get the **** out of your face even though in many ways you agree with the gist of what they're saying? People get carried away, obsessed, and ultimately they become toxic and insane like Allie.

 

[Tucker Case]

I don't know about that. One of the repetitive statements made was that Allie never did anything that didn't benefit himself first. His inventions came out of his own needs to have something vs any need to solve a problem for the greater good of all. He did seem excited at different points throughout the book to show and share his inventions with others. However it appeared his main goal was to impress others and feel superior. He had no interest in sharing anything with folks who weren't going to fall all over themselves in gratitude and amazement.

That's kind of what I meant by "to suit our purposes". That would include Allies reasons regarding comfort etc.

Anyway I didn't read the book and think trying to change the world vs adapting was a bad decision. Being a maniac like Allie would be bad. But invention in and of itself isn't a negative. The children altered their little acre area. They created forts, a church area, etc. The children were happy in their space because they were free from the insanity of their crazy dad.

Yeah, but the children were adapting as well. They used natures tools to keep the mosquitoes at bay, ate the food provided by nature, etc. They lived a far more simple life in the Acre, and that was part of their enjoyment. They didn't need to put nearly as much effort into adapting the world because they adapted themselves.

What I got from the book is that extremism is almost always bad. You can have a cause, a religion, etc but any belief taken to the extreme will eventually cross the sanity line. Allie was insane. Allie didn't dislike religion, he despised it. He didn't dislike what was happening in America, he despised it. His personality, beliefs, ideas, actions were only toxic because they were all taken to the absolute extreme. There was nothing in moderation for Allie. Either total commitment or complete banning. Either love or hate. Success or failure. Such an extreme individual could never be in a state of relaxation. They'd always either be jubilant or raging.

I got that as well. But Allie was the antagonist of the story, so I felt his behaviors represented aspects of Modern society. The same things that Allie railed against were OK when he was the person doing them. His hypocrisy was clear and a symptom of his megalomania.

I don't believe the book ever meant to say anything negative about trying to change the world, inventions, technology, etc. It was trying to show you what happens when activism is allowed to run wild. It leads to insanity. Insane people are dangerous.

I think that it wasn't necessarily anti-technology, so much as it was against the escapist mentality that the US now has. Comfort supercedes survival.

In many ways, Allie actually reminded me of the Unabomber's Manifesto (which if you';ve never read it, makes TONS of points about that activism point) and the Unabomber himself. Teh Unabomber was the same breed, except he completely went the road of anti-technology (while making bombs... go figure). In his manifesto he rails on and on about how society has lost it's way, describing activism as a symptom of that fact, yet never successfully realized that he himself was guilty of everything he railed against.

Perhaps my mental connection of the two is why I saw those similar themes in the book.

Ever met a person who was an activist for a cause? A cause that on its face has some value, some merit. Yet the activist is so completely crazy and insane about it you just want them to get the **** out of your face even though in many ways you agree with the gist of what they're saying? People get carried away, obsessed, and ultimately they become toxic and insane like Allie.

That's probably how my mind made the Unabomber connection.