downing street memo fact or fiction (1 Viewer)

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

do you think the downing st. memo is real or a forgery,

Here's some knowledge, the person who found the downing st. memo said that he got the original, made copies of the original, returned the original to where he got it, and then retyped the copies, and then burned the copies of the original. Sounds somewhat unbelievable to me but let's see your opinions.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Trajan Octavian Titus:
Here's some knowledge, the person who found the downing st. memo said that he got the original, made copies of the original, returned the original to where he got it, and then retyped the copies, and then burned the copies of the original. Sounds somewhat unbelievable to me but let's see your opinions.

He was also someone very high in the British government and was originally pro-Bush, pro-Blair and pro-Iraq war.

 

[scottyz]

How can it be a "leftist lie" when it didn't even originate from an American or in America? If you want to blame someone, blame the British.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Has anyone who was involved said that the memo didn't exist?

 

[scottyz]

Has anyone who was involved said that the memo didn't exist?

I don't believe either of the two Goverments involved have denied any of the memo's content. They simply don't talk about it.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by scottyz:
I don't believe either of the two Goverments involved have denied any of the memo's content. They simply don't talk about it.

That's our problem.

 

[freethought6t9]

Well I'm afraid Trajan's information is somewhat incorrect. The reporter who obtained the minutes of the meeting, in an attempt to protect his source, retyped the 'memo' on a typewriter and returned the original to his source. I would agree that this raises questions about the authenticity of the document. As to the question of the originals being destroyed, I am fairly sure this is an invention of the American Right as Michael Smith, the journalist who broke the story for the Sunday Times (a Newscorp publication) claims he passed the original back to the source. One right-wing blog I found claimed the originals had been burned in an attempt to tie it to the Dan Rather/ Bush's National Guard record affair.

And of course we must ask it the authenticity of the document is in question, then why isn't the British Government doing the questioning? Tony Blair said this of the minutes in a press conference; "That memo was written before we went to the UN", sounds like its authentic to me. Various other sources from the Government have confirmed the authenticity and for the most part both governments have sought to ignore the memo, rather than question the veracity of it's contents.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Well I'm afraid Trajan's information is somewhat incorrect. The reporter who obtained the minutes of the meeting, in an attempt to protect his source, retyped the 'memo' on a typewriter and returned the original to his source. I would agree that this raises questions about the authenticity of the document. As to the question of the originals being destroyed, I am fairly sure this is an invention of the American Right as Michael Smith, the journalist who broke the story for the Sunday Times (a Newscorp publication) claims he passed the original back to the source. One right-wing blog I found claimed the originals had been burned in an attempt to tie it to the Dan Rather/ Bush's National Guard record affair.

And of course we must ask it the authenticity of the document is in question, then why isn't the British Government doing the questioning? Tony Blair said this of the minutes in a press conference; "That memo was written before we went to the UN", sounds like its authentic to me. Various other sources from the Government have confirmed the authenticity and for the most part both governments have sought to ignore the memo, rather than question the veracity of it's contents.

I didn't say the originals I said the copies of the originals, the reason you can't find the original is because it never existed, I'm not sure if there is something to the equivalent of the freedom of info. act in Britain but I'd bet that there is, so why has no one produced the original and why would anyone have burned copies of the original unless they never existed in the first place. Nice out of context quote though I've heard that one used before.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Trajan Octavian Titus:
I didn't say the originals I said the copies of the originals, the reason you can't find the original is because it never existed, I'm not sure if there is something to the equivalent of the freedom of info. act in Britain but I'd bet that there is, so why has no one produced the original and why would anyone have burned copies of the original unless they never existed in the first place. Nice out of context quote though I've heard that one used before.

Well, there is something that exists at this website which has the complete text of the memo's. As well as a link to an audio transcript of the meetings.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/1

If anyone would like to do a little research on DSM, you can start at this link below.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/840

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Well, there is something that exists at this website which has the complete text of the memo's. As well as a link to an audio transcript of the meetings.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/1

If anyone would like to do a little research on DSM, you can start at this link below.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/840

That's a recreation of the meeting in audio you almost had me there for a sec Billo, nice try though, I've already read the full transcript.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Trajan Octavian Titus:
That's a recreation of the meeting in audio you almost had me there for a sec Billo, nice try though, I've already read the full transcript.

Good man. Just trying to help.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Good man. Just trying to help.

I said it in the tone of a playful jab, emotion is so hard to convey through print.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Trajan Octavian Titus:
I said it in the tone of a playful jab, emotion is so hard to convey through print.

I was complimenting you. Maybe I'm the one that is confused.

 

[Pacridge]

I think it's real. None of the officials I heard speak about it, including Blair, haven't denied it's existence or it's contents. Most in the admins, on both sides of the ocean, treat any question regarding the memo like the plague.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

OK! I'm reloadin!

The reason why the administrations are ignoring it is because they don't want to give the appearance of giving credence to a blatant forgery by allowing their words to be twisted into acknowalgment. They left it to the media to sort out for themselves, which in fact they did, to an extent, they are ignoring it because no one wants to get caught in another Rather Gate, they're using the same Rather Gate strategy of saying well: "even if it is a fake we all know it's true anyways." Oh what a tangled web.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

OK! I'm reloadin!

The reason why the administrations are ignoring it is because they don't want to give the appearance of giving credence to a blatant forgery by allowing their words to be twisted into acknowalgment. They left it to the media to sort out for themselves, which in fact they did, to an extent, they are ignoring it because no one wants to get caught in another Rather Gate, they're using the same Rather Gate strategy of saying well: "even if it is a fake we all know it's true anyways." Oh what a tangled web.

I'm not buying that. Rathergate came out rather well for the Admin. If this were a fake, it seems at least one person directly involved would have said something by now.

 

[freethought6t9]

That's a recreation of the meeting in audio you almost had me there for a sec Billo, nice try though, I've already read the full transcript.

Once again a slight error. No full transcript of the meeting exists, simply the minutes, there is a difference. But here is a more complete version of the quote;

"On Iraq, the so-called Downing Street Memo from July, 2002, says, ''Intelligence and facts remain fixed around the policy of removing Saddam through military actions.''

Is this an accurate reflection of what happened? Could both of you respond?

Mr Blair: Well, I can respond to that very easily.

No, the facts were not being fixed in any shape or form at all. And let me remind you that that memorandum was written before we then went to the United Nations."

So once again we see that Mr Blair has denied the allegation but verified the authenticity of the document. Unless you think this too is out of context. Well here is the full transcript of the press conference;

http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/Page7600.asp

As Mr Blair is a serial liar it is possible both of these statements are false, my money would still be on the former. The DSM was a very late-breaking story in the U.S. but it came days before the British election and was printed by a Murdoch owned paper. Needless to say, if there was no such memo, then it would have quickly been established. The authenticity of the document is under no suspicion in my country, indeed the PM has already had to respond to the claims made in Prime Ministers Questions, in case you don't know this is when the PM is asked questions by members of the House of Parliament, a weekly occurrence when Parliament is in session. He skirted the allegations but confirmed the authenticity. I am as yet unable to find a transcript of the session all I have been able to find so far is a press release from Plaid Cymru. I'll keep looking though.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

I'm not buying that. Rathergate came out rather well for the Admin. If this were a fake, it seems at least one person directly involved would have said something by now.

You know I'm the jack rabbit right?

Do you read Hemingway?

It rains alot here in the conch republic.


H.S.T.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by Trajan Octavian Titus
You know I'm the jack rabbit right?

You went to Long Beach Poly?

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Once again a slight error. No full transcript of the meeting exists, simply the minutes, there is a difference. But here is a more complete version of the quote;

"On Iraq, the so-called Downing Street Memo from July, 2002, says, ''Intelligence and facts remain fixed around the policy of removing Saddam through military actions.''

Is this an accurate reflection of what happened? Could both of you respond?

Mr Blair: Well, I can respond to that very easily.

No, the facts were not being fixed in any shape or form at all. And let me remind you that that memorandum was written before we then went to the United Nations."

So once again we see that Mr Blair has denied the allegation but verified the authenticity of the document. Unless you think this too is out of context. Well here is the full transcript of the press conference;

http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/Page7600.asp

As Mr Blair is a serial liar it is possible both of these statements are false, my money would still be on the former. The DSM was a very late-breaking story in the U.S. but it came days before the British election and was printed by a Murdoch owned paper. Needless to say, if there was no such memo, then it would have quickly been established. The authenticity of the document is under no suspicion in my country, indeed the PM has already had to respond to the claims made in Prime Ministers Questions, in case you don't know this is when the PM is asked questions by members of the House of Parliament, a weekly occurrence when Parliament is in session. He skirted the allegations but confirmed the authenticity. I am as yet unable to find a transcript of the session all I have been able to find so far is a press release from Plaid Cymru. I'll keep looking though.

NO ****! I've read it a buncha times and if it's real I demand hearings! If it's not I demand Hearings!

Basically my only sin is demanding accountability!

Stomp, mush, push, mosh!

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

I'm not buying that. Rathergate came out rather well for the Admin. If this were a fake, it seems at least one person directly involved would have said something by now.

Right about now if you presented me with an original I may not be inclined to dis-believe it. Yall missed the op. atleast in my book.

 

[ban.the.electoral.college]

For those of you who think it's fake, well think again. It's about to get real. Very REAL.

Congresswoman Barbara Lee (Dem., Calif.) has introduced a Resolution of Inquiry in the House of Representatives (H. Res 375) which, if passed, will require the White House and the State Department to "transmit all information relating to communication with officials of the United Kingdom between January 1, 2002, and October 16, 2002, relating to the policy of the United States with respect to Iraq.

Resolution of Inquiry into Bush Lies: Time for Action

Congress is back in session after summer break, and there are now 61 co-sponsors of Barbara Lee's Resolution of Inquiry into the Downing Street Memos - including one Republican member of the International Relations Committee, Jim Leach. A vote in committee will come between Sept. 6 and Sept. 15. Now is the time to contact YOUR congress member. Whether or not they serve on the IR Committee, we need them to co-sponsor the Resolution. They come back to work on Tuesday. Call them first thing!

FOR MORE INFORMATION:

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/902

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

For those of you who think it's fake, well think again. It's about to get real. Very REAL.

Congresswoman Barbara Lee (Dem., Calif.) has introduced a Resolution of Inquiry in the House of Representatives (H. Res 375) which, if passed, will require the White House and the State Department to "transmit all information relating to communication with officials of the United Kingdom between January 1, 2002, and October 16, 2002, relating to the policy of the United States with respect to Iraq.

Resolution of Inquiry into Bush Lies: Time for Action

Congress is back in session after summer break, and there are now 61 co-sponsors of Barbara Lee's Resolution of Inquiry into the Downing Street Memos - including one Republican member of the International Relations Committee, Jim Leach. A vote in committee will come between Sept. 6 and Sept. 15. Now is the time to contact YOUR congress member. Whether or not they serve on the IR Committee, we need them to co-sponsor the Resolution. They come back to work on Tuesday. Call them first thing!

FOR MORE INFORMATION:

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/902

well let's wait for the results of the inquiry before we jump to any conclusions, how do you know they won't prove that the memo is a lot of bunk?

 

[ban.the.electoral.college]

well let's wait for the results of the inquiry before we jump to any conclusions, how do you know they won't prove that the memo is a lot of bunk?

Well the memo could be bunk. But that won't be relevant once we have the information from the White House & State Department, now will it?

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Well the memo could be bunk. But that won't be relevant once we have the information from the White House & State Department, now will it?

Yes but it could also be possible that the investigation results in no incriminating evidence against the administrations being found, if that's the case will you repent and ask for forgiveness? lol